Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[xindykawai]

Excellent, and it inspires me now to create a toon on a PvP server...or, at least, transfer a well-geared PvP toon to a PvP server

hahah yeah pretty much :P i did the same with a feral druid mouhahaha !!

like i said, dont like pvp, go on a pve realm !

[Endus]

As I said, if those bullies wanted a competitive environment they'd be playing there, and outside of that they'd be working on improving their skill there (competitive world PvP, theorycrafting, etc). They apparently need to pick on others to feel good, to hide and lessen the painful fact they suck in a fair fight.

So what should be done?

What should be done is that anyone who doesn't want to enter the unfair ganktastic playground just goes to the safe, protected playground next door. Yes, gankers are looking to pick on people. I don't really get it either. But it's in demand enough that people do it, and want an environment for it. It's popular enough to justify tons of servers based on that ruleset. I choose to play on PvP servers because I like ruining their day, either by not being an easy target, or by getting my main and stomping them into the dirt. I want that constant threat of people being a dick. I don't want Blizzard to prevent people being dicks, because I'm perfectly capable of defending myself.

If you don't LIKE that ruleset, that's fine. That's what the PvE servers are for. What you DON'T get to do is try and change that ruleset when millions of players enjoy it as it is.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

What should be done is that anyone who doesn't want to enter the unfair ganktastic playground just goes to the safe, protected playground next door. Yes, gankers are looking to pick on people. I don't really get it either. But it's in demand enough that people do it, and want an environment for it. It's popular enough to justify tons of servers based on that ruleset. I choose to play on PvP servers because I like ruining their day, either by not being an easy target, or by getting my main and stomping them into the dirt. I want that constant threat of people being a dick. I don't want Blizzard to prevent people being dicks, because I'm perfectly capable of defending myself.

If you don't LIKE that ruleset, that's fine. That's what the PvE servers are for. What you DON'T get to do is try and change that ruleset when millions of players enjoy it as it is.

Agreed 1000%. PvP exists for PvP. Either you are good at PvP and you like it, or you are new to PvP and are overwhelmed by it. People who dislike the RULES of a PvP server are free to roll on PvE.

[Deleted]

What should be done is that anyone who doesn't want to enter the unfair ganktastic playground just goes to the safe, protected playground next door. Yes, gankers are looking to pick on people. I don't really get it either. But it's in demand enough that people do it, and want an environment for it.

It only requires a very minority who are bad at PvP because they can't pick one of their own size to ruin the game for a significant number of people.

It's popular enough to justify tons of servers based on that ruleset.

I don't care about popularity. It is a bad argument. On top of that, we haven't even tried my suggestion. I bet almost everyone would be alright with it, barring the lolkid gankers. The little boys with pimples who get picked on at school and gotta vent it in a game. The ones who have to resort to the cancer of bullying.

I choose to play on PvP servers because I like ruining their day, either by not being an easy target, or by getting my main and stomping them into the dirt. I want that constant threat of people being a dick.

..and I like the constant threat of being able to run out 'n about and meet someone of my own size where I have a chance to beat them in combat, as he does with me, instead of that he as a feral moonfires me oneshot. No, PvE server isn't a solution here. If I'm level 55 at The Dark Portal and I enable PvP in the hope of the other fellow who's also level 55 to want to PvP and a level 90 of either faction passes by then that can quickly turn the tables. My solution doesn't suffer from my problem because my solution is actually sophisticated it took this problem into account.

I don't want Blizzard to prevent people being dicks, because I'm perfectly capable of defending myself.

It is impossible for a low level to defend themselves against a level 90. Just like it is impossible for a child to defend themselves from a griefing adult. That's why there's parents to protect the kid from harm.

If you don't LIKE that ruleset, that's fine. That's what the PvE servers are for.

PvE servers aren't the same as my proposal, and PvE servers are meant for players who have no interest in PvP. As I have pointed out various times not liking being bullied != not liking PvP.

What you DON'T get to do is try and change that ruleset when millions of players enjoy it as it is.

Why not? I'm pretty sure most of them would be fine with my proposed change. Wanna know why? Nobody likes being bullied.

hahah yeah pretty much :P i did the same with a feral druid mouhahaha !!

like i said, dont like pvp, go on a pve realm !

Don't the chance of getting raped, don't run around on the street. Same logic. Instead, how about we grow some ethics. But we failed to do that IRL. That's why we got the law. In-game we got a lil advantage compared to IRL. We can make laws which make it impossible to have some things happen! A novel idea! How about we prevent rape from happening in-game, even on PvP server.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

we haven't even tried my suggestion

So get a job at Blizz, tell them the world is unhappy with PvP cause YOU say so and change an 8 year old policy. Easy right? I honestly hope Blizz just glances at the "PvP happens on PvP realm" threads and just laughs at the skirts. You wanna feel safe outside of Elwynn Forest? $25 for a golden ticket to take you to an RP realm where NOTHING ever happens... cept RP. Then you can hate the other faction and never have to flag as you sit in Goldshire and drink ale with your mates.

[Deleted]

Ah yes, because everyone in a forum posts their opinion on a toon that coincides with that opinion. News flash. I don't PvP on my PvE cause PvP on PvE is like old people f***ing. I keep an undead rogue on a PvP realm just to let out my frustrations I will gank, I will camp, I will kill auctioneers (before they got buffed). I rolled on a PvP world cause it sounded like just the kind of playground I wanted to be on. In fact, I tried to model my gear and my movements after an Orc Rogue that EVERYONE hated about 5 years ago You might remember Angwe. I was not him, but man did I want to be him. The sweet tears of angry and frustrated players simply fueled my laughter.

Strange how your achievements don't reflect that?

So, I keep my PvP on one world and my PvE on another. Nice part about having two accounts is I can gank on one screen while farming on the other. Just the way Blizz intended it.

Accounts share achievements. Unless you are schizophrenic and have 2 real-life names.

Blizz makes a game, they make policies for that game, and they allow the policies to guide the players. PvP = Anything goes. So we do it

That's true, but we've learned that in society, anything goes doesn't work and if you work with masses unwritten rules don't work either because there's always some little fucker who can't adhere the unwritten social rules. As someone wrote earlier: the lowest common denominator. Now, as I described to mister moderator here above, this means you need some kind of law and justice system (which is already in existence: the ToS/ToU) but in game design we have another advantage. We can limit what players are able to do. So a type of hybrid realm is perfectly possible.

Point is, it did exist. It even got SO bad that Blizz took away Honor points for ganking. They later reversed that cause they knew what was good for them. They re-read their policy and figured out that we were just playing by the rules.

Its called an eye for an eye and its not the most strikingly intelligent response to a situation. I'll give you an example.

The game launched in late 2004, and has been running for just over 8 years. Learning something 2 years BEFORE launch proves you are just yanking statistics out of your ass.

Yeah OK smartass..

Agreed 1000%. PvP exists for PvP. Either you are good at PvP and you like it, or you are new to PvP and are overwhelmed by it. People who dislike the RULES of a PvP server are free to roll on PvE.

..you cannot agree more than 100% with someone. See how pointless it is to argue on semantics? You know damn well he didn't literally meant 10 years, just like you didn't literally meant 1000%.

Now, back on topic, being overwhelmed by a level 90 while you are level 10 has nothing to do with skill. It has nothing to do with you being good at PvP, he bad. You can be the best mage in the world PvP, if the worst level 90 feral druid in the world flies down and moonfires you, you are dead. That's kinda like a point us proponents of a 3rd, non-PvP, non-PvE realm have made 3 days ago or something. Again, being overwhelmed by a level 90 moonfire in your face has nothing to do with you being new to PvP.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

We can make laws which make it impossible to have some things happen! A novel idea! How about we prevent rape from happening in-game, even on PvP server.

PVP LAW: THE LAW ON PVP REALMS

Player versus Player (PvP) realms are specifically designed to allow open combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance factions. As such, players on these servers have a greater ability to resolve cross-faction disputes on their own. The In-Game Support staff will not intervene in cross-faction player disputes on PvP realms.

If this does not sound like an appealing gameplay experience, it is strongly recommended that you select a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. Although there will still be opportunities to occasionally test your PvP mettle on PvE servers, it is in a much more structured environment where you are empowered to choose when you wish to participate in PvP combat.

Rules for members of the same faction (Horde vs. Horde or Alliance vs. Alliance) remain the same on PvP realms as on all others, as there are no PvP resolutions available to these players in these situations.

Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable" are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master (GM) staff. Actions that fall into this category include, but are not limited to:

- Corpse camping.
- Tricking players into getting flagged for PvP (i.e. jumping in the middle of another player's area effect spell).
- Killing players well below your level.

Updated: Aug 16, 2012

Here's your "law". Enjoy it.

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 08:49 AM ----------

Accounts share achievements. Unless you are schizophrenic and have 2 real-life names.

Only if you link your accounts. I don't link them to avoid hackers. I hate having all my eggs in one basket.

Its called an eye for an eye

What does revenge have to do with a PvP realm? We're at war with the opposite faction. That's why is it War craft not Hug craft.

..you cannot agree more than 100% with someone. See how pointless it is to argue on semantics? You know damn well he didn't literally meant 10 years, just like you didn't literally meant 1000%.

I can agree with someone as much as I want to agree with someone. It's like hitting a thumbs up button a thousand times. So unless you're with the physics police, you should just relax.

Now, back on topic, being overwhelmed by a level 90 while you are level 10 has nothing to do with skill. It has nothing to do with you being good at PvP, he bad. You can be the best mage in the world PvP, if the worst level 90 feral druid in the world flies down and moonfires you, you are dead. That's kinda like a point us proponents of a 3rd, non-PvP, non-PvE realm have made 3 days ago or something. Again, being overwhelmed by a level 90 moonfire in your face has nothing to do with you being new to PvP.

I'll say it again. It is Player v Player. Not 1 v 1 or Level v Level. There is NOTHING fair about PvP... and we like it that way. There is nothing fair in real life either, but you aren't in some religion forum telling God he needs to fix shit. He made it this way. Gave people free will. If he ever bothered to listen, he would most likely laugh and roll back over and go back to sleep. You have as much chance of stopping all crime as you do of reversing the rules on a PvP server.

[Deleted]

So get a job at Blizz, tell them the world is unhappy with PvP

Argumentum ad authoriam.

cause YOU say so

Argumentum ad populum

and change an 8 year old policy.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem

You wanna feel safe outside of Elwynn Forest? $25 for a golden ticket to take you to an RP realm where NOTHING ever happens... cept RP. Then you can hate the other faction and never have to flag as you sit in Goldshire and drink ale with your mates.

(There's RP realms which are crowded, and there's also RP-PvP realms.)

Non sequitur, straw man, and all that shit that people who don't like getting ganked don't like PvP is no true scotsman.

Again, what you say has nothing to do with why my suggestion would or wouldn't work. Its all a bunch of fallacies from a fellow who's out of arguments

[Endus]

..and I like the constant threat of being able to run out 'n about and meet someone of my own size where I have a chance to beat them in combat, as he does with me, instead of that he as a feral moonfires me oneshot.

Well, that's not on offer. You can choose between the two server types available. You don't get to try and force one of them to change.

PvE servers aren't the same as my proposal, and PvE servers are meant for players who have no interest in PvP.

That is explicitly false. PvE servers are meant for people who like a more structured PvP experience. I've already cited that multiple times, and it would be appreciated if you didn't use deliberate untruths to try and shore up your argument.

Why not? I'm pretty sure most of them would be fine with my proposed change. Wanna know why? Nobody likes being bullied.

The thing you refuse to acknowledge is, nobody is being bullied who didn't approve it. You had to tick the box saying "I want an environment where bullying is explicitly allowed". It was your choice. If you made the wrong choice, that's your responsibility. Suck it up, accept that responsibility, and fix it yourself. You have that ability. You're just refusing to do so.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Again, what you say has nothing to do with why my suggestion would or wouldn't work. Its all a bunch of fallacies from a fellow who's out of arguments

Well then. How about you restate your idea, and I will show you why it sucks BTW - quoting shit in Latin just makes ya sound like a douche, not an educated world traveller

[Deleted]

[...]

Here's your "law". Enjoy it.

Kid, I know those are the rules. I read them. If the rules were more strict, kids like you would be banned already. I propose a different rule system, a more strict one, because it has been proven people cannot adhere to morals in this anarchy called PvP server. Capiche? I propose an alternative. Now, kids may not like this because "it has always been like this" (which is a fallacy; argument ad antiquitatem) or because true world PvP is for PvP server (which is a fallacy; no true scotsman). But that doesn't make the proposal invalid, it makes you look like you can't argue on merit.

Only if you link your accounts. I don't link them to avoid hackers. I hate having all my eggs in one basket.

Care to link to your PvP main?

What does revenge have to do with a PvP realm? We're at war with the opposite faction. That's why is it War craft not Hug craft.

I don't kill children. I think thats immoral.

I can agree with someone as much as I want to agree with someone. It's like hitting a thumbs up button a thousand times. So unless you're with the physics police, you should just relax.

By your logic it'd be 10 times, but that is not how the logic and maths work in this case. You can only agree 100% with someone, not more. It simply isn't possible. It has nothing to do with physics; it is related to logic. It is because 100% is everything.

There is nothing fair in real life either, but you aren't in some religion forum telling God he needs to fix shit. He made it this way. Gave people free will. If he ever bothered to listen, he would most likely laugh and roll back over and go back to sleep.

God gave people free will, and the brains to invent Law.

You have as much chance of stopping all crime as you do of reversing the rules on a PvP server.

And again an appeal to authority...

[Endus]

I propose a different rule system, a more strict one, because it has been proven people cannot adhere to morals in this anarchy called PvP server. Capiche?

The thing you fail to realize is that we understand what you're saying. The problem is, the different rule system you're proposing already exists, on PvE realms. And PvP realms are explicitly intended to NOT have rules, to NOT be bound by some sense of "morality".

Yes, we get that you don't like it. That doesn't mean it's "wrong", it means you need to play on a PvE server instead and stop complaining that PvP servers are working as intended. It's not an issue of "morals", it's that PvP servers are designed to let people be as amoral as they want without deliberately exploiting things. Don't like it? Don't play on PvP servers. Simple.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Kid, I know those are the rules.

First off, I'm an adult, not a kid. I admit I am an asshole, but I haven't been a child for 30 years.

Care to link to your PvP main?

You first Cinderella. I have a sig line with a toon showing. I don't have to produce anything else unless I see fit. You, on the other hand, lecture others, but don't even have the guts to post a single character.

I don't kill children. I think thats immoral.

Nether do I. I kill adult character pixels in a game rated T for Teen. Drama is drama.

By your logic it'd be 10 times, but that is not how the logic and maths work in this case. You can only agree 100% with someone, not more. It simply isn't possible. It has nothing to do with physics; it is related to logic. It is because 100% is everything.

Personal opinion is not covered under mathematical physics. Sorry Bill Nye, just not happening. I approve this message 1000%!

God gave people free will, and the brains to invent Law.

Says you. I don't believe in God. Why should I have to? Just cause a bunch of extremists claim some book is the end all be all of the world? And as for a game, it has Rules... not laws. But with PvP, only rule is, there are no rules. So feel free to stay and play, pay and leave, reroll for free, or unsub. Not sure the game wouldn't be a lot better with one less whiner in it.

[Madmajix]

UFC FIGHT NIGHT Chuck lidell Vs some random 2 year old....................... Its still pvp

[Deleted]

Well, that's not on offer. You can choose between the two server types available. You don't get to try and force one of them to change.

Black & white thinking. There's more options than those 2 options. There's the option to go to Blizzard office with a baseball bat and learn them RP some world PvP. There's the option to not play WoW. We're also discussing a hypothesis: the option for an additional realm type. I'm not God, and I'm not working for Blizzard. If I was either one of those, this system would've been changed 8 years ago at the moment I learned about it. Why, because its shit, that's why. Its one of the worst cyber bullying activities I've ever witnessed in a game. I know you don't want that additional realm type, and that's OK, because in my proposal you could still play on a PvP realm which boils down to an anarchy. together with other bullies.

That is explicitly false. PvE servers are meant for people who like a more structured PvP experience. I've already cited that multiple times, and it would be appreciated if you didn't use deliberate untruths to try and shore up your argument.

Again, a PvE realm isn't the same as my solution (the phasing one, nor the gear normalization and level normalization). Also, I'm all for PvP flag auto enabled when players are of same level. That's the point of my suggestion.

Btw one nice thing Blizzard implemented on PTR today was they are going to normalize level in the battleground brackets. Seems like they're waking up and implementing some normalization.

The thing you refuse to acknowledge is, nobody is being bullied who didn't approve it. You had to tick the box saying "I want an environment where bullying is explicitly allowed". It was your choice. If you made the wrong choice, that's your responsibility. Suck it up, accept that responsibility, and fix it yourself. You have that ability. You're just refusing to do so.

"Forgive me father, they forced my hand". First of all, before CRZ I hardly ever had issues while leveling up. I assume it is because people on my realm are quite grown up when it boils down to morality like this. Second, it is by choice people resort to immoral, childish, uncompetitive behavior. Just like it is by choice a person IRL decides to break the law, or do something which society deems immoral.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

UFC FIGHT NIGHT Chuck lidell Vs some random 2 year old....................... Its still pvp

Exactly! Cause the 2 year old agreed to Player v Player, not Age v Age or Exp v Exp.

[Endus]

Black & white thinking. There's more options than those 2 options. There's the option to go to Blizzard office with a baseball bat and learn them RP some world PvP. There's the option to not play WoW. We're also discussing a hypothesis: the option for an additional realm type. I'm not God, and I'm not working for Blizzard. If I was either one of those, this system would've been changed 8 years ago at the moment I learned about it. Why, because its shit, that's why. Its one of the worst cyber bullying activities I've ever witnessed in a game. I know you don't want that additional realm type, and that's OK, because in my proposal you could still play on a PvP realm which boils down to an anarchy. together with other bullies.

It would really help if you stopped using weighted words to describe something that is entirely personal preference.

You not liking PvP servers does not make them "shit", it just means you don't like them. If you still choose to play on them, that's YOUR fault, not Blizzard's, not the people ganking you.

"Forgive me father, they forced my hand". First of all, before CRZ I hardly ever had issues while leveling up. I assume it is because people on my realm are quite grown up when it boils down to morality like this. Second, it is by choice people resort to immoral, childish, uncompetitive behavior. Just like it is by choice a person IRL decides to break the law, or do something which society deems immoral.

Nothing immoral is happening. Nothing childish is happening. Unrestricted world PvP is happening. And that's the point of PvP servers.

You really need to stop blaming your mistakes on everyone else.

[Madmajix]

Exactly! Cause the 2 year old agreed to Player v Player, not Age v Age or Exp v Exp.

Hey if you wanna be a scrub incapable of real pvp and get ur jollies off killing low level toons that's fine just don't try and claim its real pvp. It's not its just you killing some guy that has no chance of winning. The only exception I make is if you are in fact killing lowbies for the purpose of getting more people or said low level to return on a capped toon to Create Real world pvp. bust most of you just kill some low level guy 20 times or more and as soon as someone shows up to challenge you just stealth or run again that's not pvp its just GRIEFING Low level toons for the sake of it.

[Deleted]

Nether do I. I kill adult character pixels in a game rated T for Teen. Drama is drama.

Yeah, you do. Ganking lowbies boils down to hurting innocent, vulnerable people who did nothing wrong to you and can't do nothing back. It may be possible in a game, but it is rather sick and twisted. Which is why I want to address it.

You first Cinderella. I have a sig line with a toon showing. I don't have to produce anything else unless I see fit. You, on the other hand, lecture others, but don't even have the guts to post a single character.

You're making all these wild claims you are good at PvP (while your Armory doesn't prove such) and the excuse you are somehow afraid of hackers therefore you make your account more secure with 2 accounts (which is bollocks). The burden of proof lies in your hands, not mine.

Says you. I don't believe in God. Why should I have to? Just cause a bunch of extremists claim some book is the end all be all of the world?

Earlier you said:

He made it this way. Gave people free will.

Which suggests you believe in God.

Either way, if you want to follow evolution theory then we've evolved into a species which can follow a set of moral values and furthermore we have the power to create game rules which are not forced by etiquette but by game mechanic (ie. phasing).

And as for a game, it has Rules... not laws. But with PvP, only rule is, there are no rules. So feel free to stay and play, pay and leave, reroll for free, or unsub.

Just because something is the way it is or because someone cannot change the way it is doesn't make it right.

Not sure the game wouldn't be a lot better with one less whiner in it.

Straw man, and ad homenem.

[Endus]

Yeah, you do. Ganking lowbies boils down to hurting innocent, vulnerable people who did nothing wrong to you and can't do nothing back. It may be possible in a game, but it is rather sick and twisted. Which is why I want to address it.

They aren't "innocents who've done nothing wrong", they're enemy soldiers. Your entire argument is predicated on a completely false sense of morality that ignores the entire setting of the game.