I saw a guy get beaten to death and didn't do anything about it

[Skizo]

And assuming that is in anyway similar to armed thugs who clearly have no qualm with beating someone to death in public only makes you look foolish.

They are similar in that I can handle a situation in which a homeless man would kill another homeless man while you once again run away and then insult the people who have the potential to fix a problem
I'm trained to handle dangerous situations. You aren't. I could name a hundred situations where I solved a violent conflict and you would just split hairs all day.
But I guess you just want to keep insulting another group of people. Incredibly intolerant folks will just never give up.

[Kerath]

Firstly OP, I'm really sorry that you had to go through this - it's clearly left its mark on you. If I were in your position, I'd be thoroughly traumatised too.
Secondly, you should not feel bad about not stepping in. Many of us (myself included), like to think that we'd step in to help, but when it comes to the crunch, against those kinds of odds...? Yeah, I think the majority of us would think of our own safety and the safety of our families.
Realistically, what could you have done? Gotten the shit kicked out of you for your efforts? The guy would still be dead. Dragged down repercussions upon your extended family that have live there?
It's a different world out there, and I honestly can't blame you for looking out for your safety.

[LiiLoSNK]

So what I really wanted to ask you all is that were my actions reasonable? Was I a bad person for walking away like that?

Yea pretty much. You're a huge coward, but then again most people are so I'm not surprised at your lack of courage when it comes to trying to defend another life.

All I can recommend is to try and forget about it. This is the type of thing that haunts people.

[xChurch]

They are similar in that I can handle a situation in which a homeless man would kill another homeless man while you once again run away and then insult the people who have the potential to fix a problem
I'm trained to handle dangerous situations. You aren't. I could name a hundred situations where I solved a violent conflict and you would just split hairs all day.
But I guess you just want to keep insulting another group of people. Incredibly intolerant folks will just never give up.

Just one question though, you've assumed I have no training or anything in regards to situations like that as well. So doesn't that make you the same?

[Skizo]

Just one question though, you've assumed I have no training or anything in regards to situations like that as well. So doesn't that make you the same?

You clearly don't have mediation training, or you would know better and could handle a situation like in the op.
And no, I have no personal qualm with you, I just despise that you have to use the word naive to classify people who think differently. Your intolerance of other ethical perspectives is frustrating.

[xChurch]

Well I was a soldier, so I know you don't risk your life when the odds of success are close to nil. I do find it intriguing that you keep saying your mediation training would help you. I just don't see how you could believe these people would be open to any kind of diplomatic solution to what happened. Not only would you be brazenly stepping into a highly volatile situation, but you'd also be a foreigner, a westerner no less. To think they'd do anything less that either beat you just as badly or outright shoot you seems odd to me.

Also can you tell me exactly how I've insulted a group of people? All I'm claiming is that unless you've been in that exact life or death situation, you really don't know how you'd react. You haven't used any examples as of yet to make me believe you have experience with that situation.

[Felya]

That's quite the leap to take based on the responses to the heroic crowd. I have no problem with people stating that they would like to have done something, or would like to think they would. Claiming you'd do it with no experience in those situations though is baseless. Might have done it before, stood up for someone getting bullied or what have you, but in a true life or death situation you don't and can never truly predict how you'd act, claiming otherwise is what I take issue with.

I don't understand. How can you say you have no problem with someone claiming they think they would do something and saying on a forum they would. It took a mod to intervene because he said 'would' instead of 'think I would'? It took an authority figure to actually come in and tell people to stop. I do not see it as a leap, but quite litteraly bashing a guy to the extent that you can on a forum, until an authority figure intervenes. You could have walked away or just stood by watching, but instead so many people joined in, that a mod had to tell them to stop.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 12:18 PM ----------

Well I was a soldier, so I know you don't risk your life when the odds of success are close to nil.

Yet, you still chose an occupation that puts you in a situation of risking your life. If you are playing the odds of success, joining the army increases the odds of being in such a situation. Joining the army, yet being weary of risking your life to save others, is incongruous.

[Adam Jensen]

If everyone in that crowd possessed the courage of a hero to rise up and defend the man, then perhaps everyone in the neighborhood could rise up against the crime gangs, and the government could rise up against corruption, and society could rise up against organized evil, and good would triumph over evil.

It's funny how these things work. If everyone was as heroic was they should be, the world would be a great place. Alas, they are not, so the world sucks, and sentiments shared by you contribute to it directly.

Stand up.

Perhaps, but the reality is, that's not going to happen very often. Those bystanders were probably all afraid to act alone and no one would trust that if they acted, others would follow.

[StayTuned]

Don't get yourself killed in a heroic act to save another while epitomizing the precepts of altruism? I suppose you should tell Master-at-Arms Michael A. Mansoor, recipient of the Medal of Honor, that he did a shitty thing by getting himself killed to save his squad mates. Perhaps even Roy P. Benavidez is stupid to you as well? He would have jumped in and died saving that man if it came down to it. I laugh at how self-absorbed you are in your judgments against the courageous in a pathetic and laughable attempt to justify your own cowardice.

Do you even read what you write? Your everyday citizen who witnesses something =/= Master-at-whatever elite soldier who is trained to deal with such situations.
Get real.

[Felya]

Do you even read what you write? Your everyday citizen who witnesses something =/= Master-at-whatever elite soldier who is trained to deal with such situations.
Get real.

What sort of training did these soldiers recieve to choose an occupation that puts their life at risk to help others? It's not training that leads people to make choices that risk their life to help others. If nothing else, dead soldiers should prove that no amount of training can save you in some situation. Yet, it shows that normal people are still willing to take the risk, not just one time, but as an occupation.

[Bowserkills7]

I admire people who say they would intercept. I wouldn't have the courage. If I personally knew the man being beaten, I probally would of whimpered and flinched, probally threw up on the sound of cracking bones and laughter. I am not under any delusion that I have strength to deal with those situations. I grew up in a first world country in the middle class and I have no idea how hard life really is out there. I can't imaging the brutality you saw, and how that torments you. But you shouldn't feel ashamed. The way you described it makes me think that if you did do anything, and I mean anything, the gang would of targeted you and your family which would not of ended well at all.

With a corrupt system, there wasn't anything you could of done. It is just unfortunate that you had to witness that, and I am so sorry for you.

The only way I can relate to this is seeing a group of young teenagers kicking an injured pidgeon around, laughing their asses off. I felt so sorry for it, and it was so afraid with its fearful hoots and broken wing trying to escape. I eventually stood up and did something, but not until it was too late and I was ashamed of being such a coward. But this is different. There wasn't anything you could of done, so dont feel ashamed mate. You were in the wrong country for you.

[Purlina]

I would have walked away and called an ambulance when the guy first started to get beaten. That's probably the most you can do...

[Felya]

The only way I can relate to this is seeing a group of young teenagers kicking an injured pidgeon around, laughing their asses off. I felt so sorry for it, and it was so afraid with its fearful hoots and broken wing trying to escape. I eventually stood up and did something, but not until it was too late and I was ashamed of being such a coward. But this is different. There wasn't anything you could of done, so dont feel ashamed mate. You were in the wrong country for you.

He would be a psychopath if he didn't feel bad about it. As much as I like to think I would do something, reality is most likley I wouldn't. But, I am 100% sure that I would feel bad about it.

[Reeve]

I have a friend who lost his uncle in Pakistan to something kind of similar to this. Over there (and indeed much of the third world), you're just another number.

It's sickening, and yea yea yea, I'm just an internet tough guy (as many of you like to say), but I would've gone into a righteous fury and died fighting those goons who beat some poor kid's father to death. (Expletive) them. I don't think I'd think life is worth living if it was purchased at the price of watching an innocent man die to (expletive) punks. Nah.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:23 AM ----------



Rofl, I love pretentious people such as yourself who walk into threads like this and assume blatantly idiotic things regarding the human condition. Speak for yourself; my first and foremost thought would NEVER be self-preservation in this scenario. Of course, not everyone shares the same mentality, which is why an asinine blanket statement is not warranted from your part.

Be a paragon of virtue or die trying. That's my motto, yo.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:27 AM ----------



You call that insanity? What grants you the position to judge whether or not an impressively altruistic position is insanity or not? That seems awfully self-absorbed of you considering that you seem to think that your shallow world view of self-preservation should reign supreme. Not all of us think like that, certainly not DEATHETERNAL and myself thus far.

It's not about cold calculations regarding how to save the most number of innocents either; you may never get a second chance. Leave no one behind or die trying to.

Counter to survival instincts, you say? Did you think Master-at-Arms Second Class Michael A. Mansoor was running contrary to his survival instincts when he jumped on a grenade that he obviously thought would surely kill him (and it did) to save his comrades?

There are some in humanity who ascend above the petty masses, and they are the great among us. It's best not to chide them for being so altruistic as it ultimately makes you seem like the fool ignorant of what sanity means, not you.

Good God, the world is extremely selfish now.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:32 AM ----------


It's a sanity-inducing experience to see someone who thinks for the other rather for himself for once posting on MMO-C. Although posters on here seem to foolishly believe that simply because someone boasts of doing noble deeds on the internet renders them incapable of doing so in real life, it is respectable to see someone share altruistic sentiments regarding the atrocity described within the OP.

Just because you don't have the (possibly reckless) gallantry to rise up and intervene does not mean that someone posting here who claims to does not. Not everyone is like your cowardly self. Believe it.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:33 AM ----------



+1 a very sensible post.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:35 AM ----------



I think everyone in that crowd was obligated to help save the man (and they would be in places with a Good Samaritan law), but they didn't. In this case, since the OP did not participate in the actual murder or promote it as the Nazi SS guard did, the OP is not an utterly terrible person for standing by.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:38 AM ----------



Don't get yourself killed in a heroic act to save another while epitomizing the precepts of altruism? I suppose you should tell Master-at-Arms Michael A. Mansoor, recipient of the Medal of Honor, that he did a shitty thing by getting himself killed to save his squad mates. Perhaps even Roy P. Benavidez is stupid to you as well? He would have jumped in and died saving that man if it came down to it. I laugh at how self-absorbed you are in your judgments against the courageous in a pathetic and laughable attempt to justify your own cowardice.

Well, some guy is being beaten to death right now over in that part of the world. Since you're so gallant, why don't you hop on a plane and head over there to start batmanning people right now?

Personally, I don't see why the OP should have sacrificed his life without really benefitting the guy getting beaten, just so that even if he was successful he'd just end up in a Pakistani prison. Staying out of it was the right choice. It's not cowardly, it's wise.

[StayTuned]

What sort of training did these soldiers recieve to choose an occupation that puts their life at risk to help others? It's not training that leads people to make choices that risk their life to help others. If nothing else, dead soldiers should prove that no amount of training can save you in some situation. Yet, it shows that normal people are still willing to take the risk, not just one time, but as an occupation.

Thats a pile of steaming. They recieved close combat and arms training. They are used to deal with high stress high risk situations. They are used to evaluate the threat better than the average Joe.

You average Joe should never mess with armed drug gangs who think of you as no more than mere insects. They will shoot you down without 2nd thought. You are not going to save anyone, you are just going to throw your life away as well. That's the very definition of insanity.

You want to help and bring justice? Be a witness and go to court. However, seeing as OP happened in Pakistan, I am not even sure if that would be of any help.

So your best bet is to GTFO. You call that being a coward? I call that having a will to survive and not throw your life away for nothing.

[xChurch]

What sort of training did these soldiers recieve to choose an occupation that puts their life at risk to help others? It's not training that leads people to make choices that risk their life to help others. If nothing else, dead soldiers should prove that no amount of training can save you in some situation. Yet, it shows that normal people are still willing to take the risk, not just one time, but as an occupation.

There is a very large difference in risking your life to save others when there is a chance of success, however in this situation there really wasn't one. Even if you could somehow get the crowd to leave, the odds of you saving the man are next to nothing, the damage was already done by that point. All you end up doing is putting a target on your head and your families head. You're not only trained to deal with situations like that as a soldier but also how to deal with the fact that sometimes you just can't do anything. It's shitty, and it's something that will live with you forever, but sometimes the best answer really is to just do nothing. It's not cowardice it's logical.

[Reeve]

What sort of training did these soldiers recieve to choose an occupation that puts their life at risk to help others? It's not training that leads people to make choices that risk their life to help others. If nothing else, dead soldiers should prove that no amount of training can save you in some situation. Yet, it shows that normal people are still willing to take the risk, not just one time, but as an occupation.

Soliders have an army backing them up. As a Canadian in Pakistan you have exactly no one backing you up. There's a huge huge difference.

[ttak82]

I am glad to see that enough people are starting to realize outside of your own secure world the world sucks. You think you would help the innocent? yeah okay goodluck there soldier! Some people just do not realize the atrocities that happen everywhere every moment right around every corner. Ever been to Rio de Janeiro? Ever been to the REAL Rio right outside the glamor. City of God? heh. That place is scary as shit. India all over. Mexico. Literally almost anywhere that is not viewed on a postcard. Go take a vacation, study abroad, and go see the outside of your vacation area in a small town nearby (safely mind you!)

OP: I am glad you did not try to help the poor man. There would be 2 dead people not one. I know it is scary. I got lucky enough to avoid seeing the end result but I got in a similar situation, luckily our teacher/tour guide made us leave. Hell my brother almost got jailed in Russia along with his study abroad group for trespassing on school property and they snuck out the basement into a nearby restaurant after hiding for 10 some hours. (Very KGB like.) This story is too stupid to make up. Luckily one of the student's father is Governor of NYC and managed to fly over and sort everything out.

These are just memories we need to hold on to and teach the youth in later years and hopefully start turning our world around. I am sorry you had to go through this.

This is very true. I have mentioned the same thing about other cities having similar problems in my previous post and you kinda nailed it. Similar things happen in every place, big or small; the only difference is one's sense of security; for eg will the police help out? will the perps get caught etc? are laws implemented?

Anyway, I have a feeling OP is trolling given his post history and the fact that I am not seeing him provide any other specific details. Done a fine job of getting several posts up here in his thread based on some bogus story and a silly thread title.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 09:36 PM ----------

Soliders have an army backing them up. As a Canadian in Pakistan you have exactly no one backing you up. There's a huge huge difference.

Except that in this case, the OP is a Canadian with Pakistani relatives. Huge difference here, too.

[soulcrusher]

this thread needs more Psyops. Hed know what to do. someone flash the bat signal!

[RüneRS]

Don't feel bad, unless you know the kung-fu to take out a few armed thugs on your own you couldn't have done anything about it.
If it makes you feel any better, people like that often die in awfull ways (being burned alive by a rival gang for example)