[Fire] Hotfix Dec 10th

[RickJamesLich]

i said the buff was unsubstantial and you said the buff was unsubstantial. i don't get why you're fucking getting butt rustled at me.

lol, I was pointing out you had no idea what you were talking about - the cleave buff does very little in almost all fights and there's more fights that revolve around single target then there are cleave. On top of that mage cleave damage as fire was fine to begin with. Then you said something about "this is a change for the casuals that like fire".... um... most casuals probably aren't even aware of any changes that happened in the first place lol. Now go to sleep troll.

Infracted.

[Emek]

lol, I was pointing out you had no idea what you were talking about - the cleave buff does very little in almost all fights and there's more fights that revolve around single target then there are cleave. On top of that mage cleave damage as fire was fine to begin with. Then you said something about "this is a change for the casuals that like fire".... um... most casuals probably aren't even aware of any changes that happened in the first place lol. Now go to sleep troll.

the stupid oozing from your fingers is mind boggling right now

Warning - you were already infracted once in this thread, please post constructively.

[apepi]

You don't understand what is wrong with the nerfs to fire? Seriously? Fire went from being probably the best dps spec in the game to being one of the absolute worst.

Did fire need a nerf? Yes it probably did, but they overdid it.

One of the absolute worst? You are kidding me right?Fires mages seem to be doing over the average amount of damage per class, I have seen this on the charts and currently in game.They are not the top dps now(like they were) but they still put out optimal numbers.

[Deleted]

Fire damage was totally out of control and because of the overpowered scaling, it will be once again when everyone gets T15, possibly even full T14 heroic.

The real solution would have been to add some base crit and nerf the scaling, now they once again buffed scaling and in the end, everyone will be forced to play fire because it's so overpowered again. Fire has super aoe, cleave and high mobility. If it has the same single target potential like arcane and frost, why would anyone ever play something else than fire?

[Joshythemage]

No. Fire is faceroll and is exactly what I described it as. Go away.

Living bomb up.
Fireball.
Crit? Inferno blast!
Pyroblast.

Hard class man.

You leave out the most important mechanic a fire mage has. Combustion is the most important part to mastering a fire mage. Part of it is RNG but if you know how to stack a good ignite using mechanics like Alter Time/CD stacking your DPS will be much higher than a mage that doesn't really know what they're doing. Oh and there's also the level 90 talents, if you're not using those wisely your DPS will also suffer. I am so sick of boneheaded comments about how mages are the "retard-proof" easy class to play. Just because the basics of a class's rotation is easy to learn doesn't mean it's easy to become a top ranking player.

[Deleted]

See raidbots, it was fine. If you were 20k DPS below your raid as a fire mage after the nerf, youbad.

Fire has always been retardproof: Keep 1 debuff up, spam 1 button until a second lights up, push second button.

Armory of those 10 classes with decent progression and ranks?

Imo the problem with the nerf wasn't the huge dmg loss. It was that you could go for 40 sec just spamming FB without getting a single critt, putting you under the tank in dmg done.

As you say fire is very easy to play when you have learned the rotation and how to use AT in the best way. But couldn't the same be said for every other dps class aswell? Personally I've only raided as 2 dps classes my warrior and my mage and I think that my warrior was alot easier than my mage. You didn't have to care about movement and you didn't have to care about most mechanics because there was always some one better suited to deal with them.

[Zalamander]

Inferno Blast always spread to 2 targets only, until this hotfix. It's a 50% buff.

ok sorry, it always felt like it spread to more, only the bomb spread to 2 additional but maybe it wasnt after all, cheers.

[Deleted]

Fire damage was totally out of control and because of the overpowered scaling, it will be once again when everyone gets T15, possibly even full T14 heroic.

The real solution would have been to add some base crit and nerf the scaling, now they once again buffed scaling and in the end, everyone will be forced to play fire because it's so overpowered again. Fire has super aoe, cleave and high mobility. If it has the same single target potential like arcane and frost, why would anyone ever play something else than fire?

I think you'r right. Personally I hate playing as fire simply because I think it's boring. So I'm overjoyed now that I can play as arcane. Theres just a few things wrong about your post.
Fire got high mobility compared to the other mage specs however it got bad mobility compared to most other classes. (our 90 talents made sure of that)
Fire doesn't have super AOE since combustion can only be spread to 3 targets. The cleave is amazing though.

Also I think you'r right about the critt. The fun part with fire is spamming out pyro's and now when they romoved almost 7.5% critt chance (provided you had around 45% before) they removed alot of the fun part of being fire.

[mrgreenthump]

One of the absolute worst? You are kidding me right?Fires mages seem to be doing over the average amount of damage per class, I have seen this on the charts and currently in game.They are not the top dps now(like they were) but they still put out optimal numbers.

It werent last, but it was too low on single target fights, just go to raidbots and put it to all parses and 1 week time span and see the damage, it is even worse though cause if you remove fights that had cleave in them, fire was often dead last on dps..

But back to the original topic, I dont see fire rising much on single target after this, sure its a buff, but it would need to be 1.4 or even 1.45 to be balanced with other specs atm on single target..

But its a nice start and fire is again on my list as a spec, but sadly its still only a few fights and all of them are farm status atm for me so.. this change sort of changes nothing for your average hc raider, frost and arcane are still superior on single target.. On cleave though they made fire even more powerful, which I just do not get..

[announced]

how is this inferno blast a buff? didnt inferno already spread to 3 surrounding targets?

lol nvm it spread to do.. a whole +1 more.

if blizz really wanted to fix fire they would revert the CM nerf. change combustion to 75% of the total ignite.. not 50%.

this "buff " is just a waste of gold to re-try out fire.

im loling at the people saying fire is good for cleave combustion.. which fights in terrace are you doing exactly? all of them tend to be single target.. and even the ones where you can combustion cleave.. thats a 20 second dot.. if it dies in 3 seconds its not exactly helping.

back to arcane.

[HatredAU]

You're still better than hybrid casters after the nerf, and you've been buffed again. Get over it.

[reflection]

No. Fire is faceroll and is exactly what I described it as. Go away.

Living bomb up.
Fireball.
Crit? Inferno blast!
Pyroblast.

Hard class man.

Go try it then and see how many DPS you can pull with that rotation. I'm sure you will fuck up your DPS the complete first week. Mage is not that easy though you have few spells. You loose DPS if you wait for HU. You loose DPS if you don't hit IB after the NEXT Fireball. You loose DPS if you don't cast Fireballs after using IB. And the most fragile part is the part where you use alter time to get a big ignite for combustion. Try it out I want to see you top the meters

@Topic: I will stay Frost now. I kind of like this spec. We're not a super hardcore progress guild and I can pull as much DPS as everybody else in the raid. Ok for me. Anyway my raid leader will kill me if I change my lootlist back to Fire

[mrgreenthump]

You're still better than hybrid casters after the nerf, and you've been buffed again. Get over it.

If you take the redic cleave fights away from Raidbots for example, put the parameters for average dps from past week and all parses.. you just wont see any hybrid caster below fire mages, well maybe balance, but ye these arent druid forums are they now..

[Tisha]

I'm really confused as to why they added an additional target for our cleave, yet left the 3 target limitation for LB as it is. Maybe they meant to also increase the limitation of LB to 4, and forgot?

While writing up this post I decided to test out the cleave change to see if the 3 target limitation for LB got changed without anyone noticing or something ridiculous. It didn't, of course, but one unusual thing I noticed was that the target that does not receive the LB gets the pyromaniac debuff. /boggle

[Deleted]

All of our mages respecced to either arcane or frost. Even in 100% Firegear Arcane is able to do more dps than fire at the moment.

This "buff" is useless. Improving cleave is ridiuclous and completely the wrong direction, and the buff for CM is much too small in order to make fire competitive again.

By the way: Which dedicated DPS are willing to do subpar dps? A normal dedicated dps will play the most competitive spec, not the worst one.. and single target is horrible with fire at the moment.

[Menphis]

This change means they are looking close at the data and our opinions, so i guess thats good.

But I hardly believe that 1.25 to 1.3 would make that much of a difference and make fire fun again.
By "fun", I don't mean numbers. I mean the mechanic. The rotation. Not spamming fire ball most of the time, etc.

I guess I'll try it out though, before I continue expressing my stressful thoughts about the nerf which hit a week ago.
Since I still have a few weeks of my subscription left.

[Bugs]

I've just tried out a basic fire spec. Meaning I got the gear for Fire, but with Arcane gemming and reforges. With Arcane on dummy I did around 62k stable. With Fire just now, I did from 60-70k on dummy.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 11:20 AM ----------

Oh and my ilvl is 474

[LocNess]

Around a 1%-2% increase? No thank you, I will keep playing Arcane. I will not mess with RNG bullshit, sorry.

[Zalamander]

The cleave buff was much needed for fire regardless of the single target dmg fire AoE has been really weak in MoP, probably one of the weakest AoE class/spec combos in the game when instant no CD flame strikes is no more and our beloved blastwave has gone missing.
Last week after nerf I could keep around 70-80K DPS on dummy, im 484 ilvl 100% crit focused, gonna see how it improved now since these changes has greatest impact on crit geared fire mages.

[chrisnumbers]

I don't understand why critmass got nerfed to begin with. +.05% now? Meh.
My guild isn't currently working on any fights where cleaves are necessary, so I'm still Arcane.