Global Prosperity Index 2012

[GreatOak]

I blame artificially inflated costs of care from hospitals and the like :P

It's the government and pharmaceutical industry's fault. Hooray for corporate lobbyists and inflation causing lawsuits caused by regulation against doctors/treatments.

[Catta]

Maybe, but freedom has a price, and if you look at the actual stats concerning gun crime objectively and on their own they would show that it's worth keeping that freedom. The FBI publishes reports all the time. Sure you may be twice to three times as likely to be murdered as someone in the Uk, but when the murder rate in the UK is nearly 0%, well....

It would be nice if we could find a way to successfully get guns out of wackos hands without preventing normal people from getting them to defend themselves, hunt, or practice but I don't see a way of doing that.

Also remember that nearly all gun crime happens in impoverished areas amongst minorities. It's important to know where it is as it helps find solutions for the problem. Poor people are more likely to commit crime.

Make it like a drivers license and stop selling them at gunshows without background checks i would say. It all boils down to making it harder to get for everyone to make it extremely hard to get for some. If it is extremely hard for some and piss easy for the rest then its still easy to get.

[Giants41]

College is highly accessible in the US, I'm not sure where people get the idea that it's not. Private institutions are expensive, but state schools aren't terribly expensive; poor folks get significant government grants that mitigate costs further, and scholarships are available for good students. Student loans are available for pretty much anyone that wants them. The only countries in the world with higher percentages of college grads than the US are Canada, Japan, and Israel (source).

I agree, this is a common misconception.

[GreatOak]

Make it like a drivers license and stop selling them at gunshows without background checks i would say. It all boils down to making it harder to get for everyone to make it extremely hard to get for some. If it is extremely hard for some and piss easy for the rest then its still easy to get.

Well, most states already require background checks, and nearly none of the guns bought at gunshows are used in crime. Most guns used in crime are handguns used by criminals (usually gang members) against other gangmembers. In fact, 6,500 out of the 11,000 gun murders are done by people with a record.

Virtually all legal gun owners never use their guns to commit crimes and most crimes are done by illegal guns. That's one of the reasons most people despise the notion of gun control here.

This article is biased but its the fastest one I can find. It shows that gun control doesn't help here like you would expect it to. I think a cultural change is the real solution, like in Switzerland.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...up-crime-down/

Here's a leftist site running the same story
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...an-t-be-right#

[Khoranth]

It's the government and pharmaceutical industry's fault. Hooray for corporate lobbyists and inflation causing lawsuits caused by regulation against doctors/treatments.

Arguing US healthcare is pointless. President Obama already solved the issue, without a gov't takeover of healthcare. Under the new law even more poor people get free healthcare, and low wage earners who do not qualify for that will be offered affordable healthcare through the new exchange program. Almost everyone who wants good USA high quality healthcare will get it once the law is fully in affect.

If there is one thing everyone should credit President Obama for: he made it so everyone in the USA can get the best quality healthcare in the world, at an affordable price.

[Catta]

Well, most states already require background checks, and nearly none of the guns bought at gunshows are used in crime. Most guns used in crime are handguns used by criminals (usually gang members) against other gangmembers. In fact, 6,500 out of the 11,000 gun murders are done by people with a record.

Virtually all legal gun owners never use their guns to commit crimes and most crimes are done by illegal guns. That's one of the reasons most people despise the notion of gun control here.

This article is biased but its the fastest one I can find. It shows that gun control doesn't help here like you would expect it to. I think a cultural change is the real solution, like in Switzerland.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...up-crime-down/

Thats still 40 % committed by those without a record.

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 04:17 AM ----------

Arguing US healthcare is pointless. President Obama already solved the issue, without a gov't takeover of healthcare. Under the new law even more poor people get free healthcare, and low wage earners who do not qualify for that will be offered affordable healthcare through the new exchange program. Almost everyone who wants good USA high quality healthcare will get it once the law is fully in affect.

If there is one thing everyone should credit President Obama for: he made it so everyone in the USA can get the best quality healthcare in the world, at an affordable price.

Obama's "solution" is horrible. It is still better than what you had before but it has an unneeded middle man, forces people to buy something from a private company and doesn't address cost of care.

[GreatOak]

Thats still 40 % committed by those without a record.

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 04:17 AM ----------



Obama's "solution" is horrible. It is still better than what you had before but it has an unneeded middle man, forces people to buy something from a private company and doesn't address cost of care.

Well just because they didn't have a record does not mean that they are not criminals. That just means they haven't been caught. Like I said though, virtually all legal owners dont use their guns for violence. I just can't think of a solution that stops the violence while letting us keep our full gun rights. If there was one proposed I'd support it.

Also, you're right, Obamacare is horrible.

Free Markets or Single Payer please, no middle men to inflate the prices and make a quick buck

I mean actual free markets and not cronyism, but that has almost no chance of happening here and it's too late to implement it without hurting people.

[Giants41]

Thats still 40 % committed by those without a record.

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 04:17 AM ----------



Obama's "solution" is horrible. It is still better than what you had before but it has an unneeded middle man, forces people to buy something from a private company and doesn't address cost of care.

I'm not the biggest fan of Obamacare at all, but i'm curious as to what you would propose we do?

[Tradewind]

I'm not the biggest fan of Obamacare at all, but i'm curious as to what you would propose we do?

Proper Universal Healthcare.

[Giants41]

Proper Universal Healthcare.

Well we all know that is out of the question.

[Rhyseh]

The problem with healthcare in the US is that it is a business not a service. Also the litigatious nature of the US means that insurance comes at a very high premium.

[Catta]

I'm not the biggest fan of Obamacare at all, but i'm curious as to what you would propose we do?

Probably built state run hospitals and work together with the AMA and require newly educated doctors to work X amount of time at these hospitals. Make it free to visit these hospitals.
You may say this will hurt the quality of care to have new students only. But due to it being free, paid by taxes, but free of charge would make private hospitals a niche business opening up a lot of hospital buildings to be bought and experienced doctors to work.

Sounds incredibly socialist i know. And it would cost a lot of moolah but i think in the long run it would be preferable. I am no economic so i expect someone to rip it apart.

[Giants41]

Probably built state run hospitals and work together with the AMA and require newly educated doctors to work X amount of time at these hospitals. Make it free to visit these hospitals.
You may say this will hurt the quality of care to have new students only. But due to it being free, paid by taxes, but free of charge would make private hospitals a niche business opening up a lot of hospital buildings to be bought and experienced doctors to work.

Sounds incredibly socialist i know. And it would cost a lot of moolah but i think in the long run it would be preferable. I am no economic so i expect someone to rip it apart.

Pretty good idea but yeah that wouldn't fly. It's a tough issue really.

[Catta]

Pretty good idea but yeah that wouldn't fly. It's a tough issue really.

Im a med student, soon tm, and i believe we are required to take our residency at a state hospital here. Not to mention that i dont think private hospitals are interested in newly educated people.

[Raidenx]

Probably built state run hospitals and work together with the AMA and require newly educated doctors to work X amount of time at these hospitals. Make it free to visit these hospitals.
You may say this will hurt the quality of care to have new students only. But due to it being free, paid by taxes, but free of charge would make private hospitals a niche business opening up a lot of hospital buildings to be bought and experienced doctors to work.

Sounds incredibly socialist i know. And it would cost a lot of moolah but i think in the long run it would be preferable. I am no economic so i expect someone to rip it apart.

Sounds good, but we'd still need to allow private hospitals to compete, otherwise our quality of care would drop. We could possibly do something similar to the VA that we use for our veterans.

This video highlights some points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=octFZaD_EF0

[Rhyseh]

You could do something similar to what we have here. We have a public and a private system. It's not a perfect system, however you get the best of both worlds. For those who can't afford private health cover they can go to the public hospitals. These hospitals generally have long wait times for most procedures (emergencies excluded) and are funded by the government. We also have tax incentives for individuals who earn over a certain amount to take out private health cover.

It's not a perfect system, however it works fairly well.

[Catta]

Sounds good, but we'd still need to allow private hospitals to compete, otherwise our quality of care would drop. We could possibly do something similar to the VA that we use for our veterans.

This video highlights some points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=octFZaD_EF0

They are allowed to compete. But i doubt they will be able to compete against a hospital that doesnt charge you. It will probably make the quality drop for some time but as the majority of the doctors are phased into the state run hospitals it will go up.

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 04:58 AM ----------

You could do something similar to what we have here. We have a public and a private system. It's not a perfect system, however you get the best of both worlds. For those who can't afford private health cover they can go to the public hospitals. These hospitals generally have long wait times for most procedures (emergencies excluded) and are funded by the government. We also have tax incentives for individuals who earn over a certain amount to take out private health cover.

It's not a perfect system, however it works fairly well.

Im pretty sure all western nations have private hospitals. It doesnt exclude them but severely limits its money making opportunities by making the free one the preferred one.

[Jackmoves]

Im pretty sure all western nations have private hospitals. It doesnt exclude them but severely limits its money making opportunities by making the free one the preferred one.

Yeah, you will still make more money running a private clinic though compared to working in a public hospital, not that you earn bad cash working there, you are still a high wage earner, but private practise is more profitable.

[Kivimetsan]

If guns or ammo had more restrictions to own them here in the U.S., our safety and security numbers would be far better, and if we didn't spend trillions on our military, pointless wars, and government handouts, our economy would surely be better too.

Yeah because law abiding citizens go on murderous rampages right? Criminals are criminals because they break the law, if you make it illegal to have a gun, they will still break that law and kill someone...
Also Chicago is the most heavily restricted cities in the US when it comes to guns and it has the number one gun crime rate in the country. New York, Washington and all the other heavily liberalized anti-freedom cities who restrict guns are also following closely. There gun laws arent working there, why would it work country wide...?

I agree with the second part, but man don't ever let go of the 2nd amendment or you will find yourself with a 1 way ticket to fascism.

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 04:21 PM ----------

Yeah because law abiding citizens go on murderous rampages right? Criminals are criminals because they break the law, if you make it illegal to have a gun, they will still break that law and kill someone...
Also Chicago is the most heavily restricted cities in the US when it comes to guns and it has the number one gun crime rate in the country. New York, Washington and all the other heavily liberalized anti-freedom cities who restrict guns are also following closely. There gun laws arent working there, why would it work country wide...?

I agree with the second part, but man don't ever let go of the 2nd amendment or you will find yourself with a 1 way ticket to fascism.

edit: Tell me this, Australia and New Zealand are much more free than the USA right? Well we also have guns, sure we don't have the right to bare arms, but the majority of people that live in the country side have guns. Guns are not the problem, its what triggers the use of guns in crimes that is the problem and the answer to this is... the War on Drugs.

Switzerland, Germany, Austria, etc etc all have guns and yet they have much less gun crime and are more free? Its not guns that restrict your freedom, they enable it. Its the government war on the people that is the real crime and catalyst for violence.

[Afrospinach]

If guns or ammo had more restrictions to own them here in the U.S., our safety and security numbers would be far better, and if we didn't spend trillions on our military, pointless wars, and government handouts, our economy would surely be better too.

Hey I thought wars were there to bolster your economy with all those arms contracts going out to buddies of the government and whatnot /tinfoilhat