Time to discuss gun regulation in the US?

[lolo855]

I didn't mean to imply that Europeans shouldn't be allowed to offer up their opinion, I just stated why its not taken seriously.

yeah I know, wasn't saying you implied it, was just giving my opinion on the matter. and why it should be taken more seriously. We take advice from the US on some matters too. It would be stupid to not take each other seriously. We progress by sharing our knowledge.

[Latetomyownfuneral]

Again with that ridiculous car argument, how can you not see the difference between guns and cars ?

Guns are made to kill.
Cars are made to drive.

This logic is based on the intent of the manufacture/design of the item. So, a simple question. How do you know the car you drive wasn't intended to kill people? What about target/competition firearms, they aren't meant to kill.

[Chaochamp]

no really? do you honestly think i'm this fucking stupid? go away.

i was being facetious.

i know its because they were children. but that still doesnt make any difference in what i said. the media wants their ratings, and this was exactly it. if you think otherwise makes you the ignorant one.

I apologize; I was unable to decipher the facetiousness within your post. And you're right, the media is covering this for their ratings, which I never really even brought up, but don't they do that for any story? Isn't that their job?

[Aalyy]

As what many would consider an uber-liberal I just have to say that the focus on guns is misplaced. We are focusing on a tool used to do violence rather than the violence itself and the root causes. Especially poverty and mental health. As someone with a relative with serious mental health issues I know what huge obstacles one faces to get help. It took my family years! Years and a desperate situation to get him into the mental health system.

We don't know all the details of this latest tragedy yet but so many of them involve issues with mental health. And what about the football player who shot and killed his girlfriend? Why was all the focus on guns and absolutely zero focus on the real issue...violence against women. Yet another man killed a woman and we are focused on the tool he used to do it. If he had used a knife would be all into knife control? And the correlation between violence of all kinds and poverty is extremely high yet again we focus on a tool not the reasons.

If people want to be violent they will find ways to do it. Prisoners have no access to guns yet they come up with creative ways to injure and kill each other all the time. The tool is not as important as the understanding and addressing the underlying cause of the violence.

IMO the only area lacking gun control regulation are the gun shows. Other than enforcing the existing laws on the books that is the only weak area. We actually do have good gun control legislation. I don't believe that America will be safer by disarming law abiding citizens any more than taking drivers licenses away from responsible drivers will make us safer. It will only happen when we focus on the root cause of violence instead of on the tool used to commit it.

[Shinoashi]

Please stop posting idiotic nonsense, you are contributing to nothing here but just throwing around the dumbest arguments that were ever given for why gun's should be legal.

and so are a lot of the anti gun people here. so whats the difference if he makes them?

[lolo855]

Quick... someone get a lawyer, we can suance Isaac Newton...

+1

people still thinking that criminals have a secret factory that produces illegal weapons

[Locruid]

Sure we should limit guns in the US cause they apparently kill people.

Based on that logic lets also ban

Cars
knives
Cows (manure used in bombs)
Bags
Hands (can choke someone)
Bows and Arrows
Spears
Video Games (apparently wow has "caused" deaths)
Rocks



the list can go on and on. You dont control an object that a person CHOSE to use. How about getting the media to quit glorifying the shooters? Seriously, you get 1-2 days of the victims and then 2 weeks of the poor shooter with interviews from people who saw him once 20 yrs ago.

[Seranthor]

What else do you use a glock for? You can hunt with plenty of other weapons. Do you spread butter with a glock? Do you shoot down low hanging fruit from a glock? Do you feed your children with your glock?

Do you spread butter with your whiskey bottle or your cigarette pack?

[Bakis]

lets try not to nation bash in the dark. cause thats clearly what you're doing here.

also, we're getting free healthcare.

but yes, cultural difference are hugely different then europe and america.

which is why your idea that banning guns here wouldnt work.

hey it works for us, so it so should work for a county that is culturally way fucking different than ours tho!!!

sigh....

First of all i was posting facts, been familiar with homless and poverty numbers. Social safety nets and the healthcare is of no shock
so stop being lame and throw the nation bashing card.
Secondly I never said what works in the US automatically can be applied in the EU or the other way around.


All I did was to counter your remark that the US had more crazies which I firmly believe is not true, what I did say was that any sane person
can lose it when facing difficult life conditions, hence why I brought up the above issues.

At least get some shit that you just typed right.

Oh, if you scroll back you will see posts from me saying that any form of ban would do more harm than good, regulations is a start a ban of any sort would be stupid regarding shotguns and handguns.

[Deleted]

Can any american honestly, with a straight face say that at the single shot musket toting time that the second amendment was put into the constitution that they really meant for people to have the right to own weapons that fire 10000 rounds a minute, rifles that can hit a nickel from 2 miles away and use armored vehicles???

If you told them that that was what was going to happen they would have probably called you as demented as the guy talking about metal birds flying around at 40000 feet with 400 humans in them.

Fuck, link that weapon to me. In my 9 years active Infantry, I have never heard of such an awesome weapon. Give me 100 of those weapons, 100 good men and I could conquer the UK.

[Ayonel]

W

First of all I'd like to say that I'm not an American and haven't lived in America for a good 8 years now, so information might be incorrect and if so please correct me

In response to the recent shootings at both the Connecticut elementary school and the Oregon Mall, wouldn't you agree that it's about time to discuss severely limiting gun freedom and firearm possession in America?
I just think that there *might* be some form of correlation between gun-sales and possession and shootings when the countries with the least number of people shot per year are also the ones with the tightest legislation and the least armed police officers...
"If everyone has a gun then it's safer herp derp second amendment I-do-need-me-my-fully-automatic-gun-for-self-defense"


Thoughts?


Edit: The thread title is "gun regulation", not banning. Calm down you gun-tooting Uncle Sams.
Furthermore, the incident in China involving a knifing spree lead to injured children, while this incident involving guns lead to dead children.

Uh, you say it's not banning, but severely limiting is the same thing.

It doesn't seem like we have a gun problem, we have a psychopath problem. I believe I mentioned the last time we had one of these threads, way back, uh, oh yes, three days ago, I pointed out, to no fanfare, that Cho, Loughner, and Joker(forget his name ATM) were all seeing psychiatrists, were all on anti-psychotics, and could not legally purchase guns. However, since doctors don't disclose at their patients are violence prone psychopaths who admit to urges to commit mass murders, it comes down to the offender lying on their 4473(the federal form that must be filled out, which screens for this, and is communicated to the Feds with every purchase) and the Feds not knowing the person is prohibited because they have no record.

One important feature that you forgot to point out about all those wonderful countries with no guns, few police, and low crime is that they are also relatively wealthy, demographically homogenous(yes, that means White Northern Europeans) and of similar social mindset. A big part of the issue that is ignored is that the US is very ethnically diverse, and no, this isn't a racist observation, and the statistics show that there is more violence in countries where there are large degrees of socioeconomic and ethnic diversity in close proximity.

If you compare teen pregnancy and abortion in Sweden and the US, and then do a similar comparison with respect to violent crime, you will probably find strong correlations in the disparities between the two countries.

Stepping down from my soap box, this is a horrible tragedy, and i feel terrible for the families who lost their children or loved ones. I hope that we are able to find a way to deal with the large numbers of people who have severe mental illness but whose privacy we value as more important then the lives of the people who live in their communities.

[Vuljatar]

The answer is no. It has always been no. It will always be no.

You would steal a man's most precious right--the right to self defense--in a misguided attempt to make him safer. And you would accomplish nothing good.

The United States is full of guns, both illegally and legally owned. The legally owned guns are almost never used to commit crimes, and they are the only guns that would be impacted by the sort of draconian regulations the anti-gun lobby would get passed. You would be left with a country of criminals who have to pay slightly more for their black market firepower, and law abiding civilians who are legally prevented from properly defending themselves. Crime as a profession would become infinitely safer, as the criminals would be safe in the knowledge that few of their victims would risk the legal repercussions of owning a gun.

Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither. And will get neither. This is a fact that has been proven countless times in human history. Give it a thought every time you catch yourself saying "there oughta be a law...".

[Shinoashi]

I apologize; I was unable to decipher the facetiousness within your post. And you're right, the media is covering this for their ratings, which I never really even brought up, but don't they do that for any story? Isn't that their job?

yes it is their job, but i get so tired of the media focusing on things like children, malls, etc but not the many many many of the same hate crimes, just so they can get their beloved 'ratings'.

if they're going to do these random violence stories, they need to do them all. (quite impossible because america is a big nation, but you get my point i'm sure)

[Chaochamp]

Bad people who want to use weapons for bad purposes are still going to find a way to get their weapons. all gun regulation will do is keep people from having the tools they need to defend themselves should the need arise.

Those tools didn't really help in this situation, did they?

[Gothicshark]

Convert that to full auto and if someone finds out you will be doing some prison time in any state in the union. In fact, just buy the parts to convert it to full auto and you might get a visit from the feds real quick. Don't make it sound like there is some loophole to make semi-autos into full auto without any regulation.

I can buy anything on the internet legally and Anonymously. Also you point is invalid since the kid in Colorado did exactly what I stated. How many did he kill?

[lolo855]

This logic is based on the intent of the manufacture/design of the item. So, a simple question. How do you know the car you drive wasn't intended to kill people? What about target/competition firearms, they aren't meant to kill.

Well you don't have to take those at home do you ?

We have a target range close to my house and I know people who have guns need to keep them there locked away safely.
And we all know cars were not meant to kill people, it's just something that happens due to the high amount of cars in circulation, but the gov also tries to reduce the number of death's that car causes with alcohol and drug controls when driving etc, campaigns to make people more sensible to the issue.

[ugotownd]

You want a perfect example of gun control and how it doesnt work. Go take a look at Chicago. Most guns are banned or impossible to get. Now look at there crime rating. One of the worst in the US. Why do you ask cause the people doing the crime don't follow the rules anyways. Shibbily if you knew anything about gun laws before you opened you mouth half the things in your list are already required. I had to wait 5 days two months ago when I purchased my new AR-15. The country needs no more laws that will do nothing. The one thing that does need to change is the NICS check needs to have access to your mental health records. But NO cause the country is so obsessed with there privacy they wont allow it. But they jump at the chance to take away our guns from legal owners.

[Deleted]

No... my guns are locked in my safe... and you can have them... if you can get the safe open...

You are what is RIGHT about gun owners, more need to follow your example.

[Itisamuh]

When exactly did criminals obey laws? Gun control would only hurt the innocent. Meth is illegal too, yet people have no problem getting it.

[Deleted]

Fuck, link that weapon to me. In my 9 years active Infantry, I have never heard of such an awesome weapon. Give me 100 of those weapons, 100 good men and I could conquer the UK.

Gogogo, kick that queen off her throne!

When exactly did criminals obey laws? Gun control would only hurt the innocent. Meth is illegal too, yet people have no problem getting it.

Because meth kills the user, not an innocent who doesn't want anything to do with it.