Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[TZucchini]

So you are admitting to intentionally ignoring data based on international borders.

I admit to nothing!

I'm not trying to purposefully ignore any information. Maybe (probably) I'm not being clear.

Gang membership, in the US, is predominately Hispanic (50% Hispanic, 10% white). Yet when it comes to homicides, there are 3x more white victims (and perpetrators) than Hispanic.

If gang membership had a huge influence on homicides, I would expect Hispanics to be represented much more than they currently are in homicide figures.

[Rukentuts]

So you're saying help these people and gun related deaths will plummet?
Or ban scary looking guns and mag compacity to 10 rounds is the solution?

Can't I say both? Limiting arms does mitigate damage a criminal can do. This is a fact. But attacking the motives is harder but also attacking the source of why criminals are criminals.

- - - Updated - - -

We have an issue with poor, uneducated, violent African American males in the South? That is what all the statistics combined would seem to say, but that doesn't address the WHY they all combine there.

Arizona's murder rates suggest this isn't a black problem. It's a cultural problem not confined to race.

[rhandric]

We have an issue with poor, uneducated, violent African American males in the South? That is what all the statistics combined would seem to say, but that doesn't address the WHY they all combine there.

Or why the solution to that problem is, more (likely unenforced beyond a superficial level) gun control laws!

[Tinykong]

I admit to nothing!

I'm not trying to purposefully ignore any information. Maybe (probably) I'm not being clear.

Gang membership, in the US, is predominately Hispanic (50% Hispanic, 10% white). Yet when it comes to homicides, there are 3x more white victims (and perpetrators) than Hispanic.

If gang membership had a huge influence on homicides, I would expect Hispanics to be represented much more than they currently are in homicide figures.

You are comparing a tiny segment of a group (Hispanics in a gang residing in the US) to the vast majority of the other group (whites in the US.)

When you compare homicides rates of all Hispanic gang members to all whites without regards to the international border, the Hispanic gangs outnumber a decade of white murders in just one year (2012) alone.

[PhaelixWW]

I don't know how often it happens. You tell me?

Not very often, I imagine.

I disagree. Covello said that the "government's goal of reducing violence is measured against the ban's impingement on Second Amendment rights." This falls directly in line with the SCOTUS' ruling on "reasonable restrictions" in Heller.

Like I said, purely a judgment call. The federal judge admitted to the "common use" portion, so any SCOTUS appeal should be easier, because they' mostly have to argue "reasonable restrictions". And, I mean, c'mon, we've been over ITT a thousand times the fact that assault weapon bans are silly since they account for such a small percent of gun crimes.

It's more "reasonable" to restrict handguns for the sake of lowering crime numbers than it is to restrict assault weapons, right? And if handguns can't be banned due to "common use", and a federal judge just found "common use" applied to assault weapons, then that means there's a very compelling argument for the SCOTUS to consider overturning an assault weapons ban, too.

[lockedout]

We have an issue with poor, uneducated, violent African American males in the South? That is what all the statistics combined would seem to say, but that doesn't address the WHY they all combine there.

Well besides the mentioned factors of poverty poor education thug culture etc. It is hot like all the time. Where I live it is only hot in the summer, and it seems like that's when everyone likes to fight. Maybe the heat is just so frustrating you have to shoot people, I wouldn't know.

- - - Updated - - -

Can't I say both? Limiting arms does mitigate damage a criminal can do. This is a fact. But attacking the motives is harder but also attacking the source of why criminals are criminals.

- - - Updated - - -

Arizona's murder rates suggest this isn't a black problem. It's a cultural problem not confined to race.

Arizona's problem is hispanic gangs.

[PhaelixWW]

We have an issue with poor, uneducated, violent African American males in the South? That is what all the statistics combined would seem to say, but that doesn't address the WHY they all combine there.

Rukentuts is saying "freedom" is why, as an allusion to gun-loving southern rednecks.

[Kellhound]

Can't I say both? Limiting arms does mitigate damage a criminal can do. This is a fact. But attacking the motives is harder but also attacking the source of why criminals are criminals.

- - - Updated - - -

Arizona's murder rates suggest this isn't a black problem. It's a cultural problem not confined to race.

Your first statement does not make your second one true, as there are more than two "races" in America in general, and Arizona in particular.

[Rukentuts]

Your first statement does not make your second one true, as there are more than two "races" in America in general, and Arizona in particular.

Which is kind of my point. Look at the amount of blacks living in Arizona, then look at their murder rates. If it were a black problem the map would match; it doesn't.

- - - Updated - - -

Rukentuts is saying "freedom" is why, as an allusion to gun-loving southern rednecks.

Straw-man aside, I clearly said poverty, low education, and "freedom".

[lockedout]

Which is kind of my point. Look at the amount of blacks living in Arizona, then look at their murder rates. If it were a black problem the map would match; it doesn't.

Except you are missing the fact that there is a huge mexican/hispanic gang presence there.
Just for fun this is how you get across the border in arizona..

[Rukentuts]

Except you are missing the fact that there is a huge mexican/hispanic gang presence there.

Even if you imply it's responsible on a massive scale (which I doubt, otherwise Texas would be there as well), it still means it isn't a black thing.

[PhaelixWW]

Arizona's murder rates suggest this isn't a black problem. It's a cultural problem not confined to race.

Because there can't be more than one possible factor for increased homicide rates.

[TZucchini]

You are comparing a tiny segment of a group (Hispanics in a gang residing in the US) to the vast majority of the other group (whites in the US.)

When you compare homicides rates of all Hispanic gang members to all whites without regards to the international border, the Hispanic gangs outnumber a decade of white murders in just one year (2012) alone.

But why would I care about what happens in Mexico, when discussing US related homicides, and US related gang membership?

[lockedout]

Which means it isn't a black thing.

Most of the gangs aren't even americans, they are illegal mexicans.

[Rukentuts]

Because there can't be more than one possible factor for increased homicide rates.

I never said that.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the gangs aren't even americans, they are illegal mexicans.

And Juarez is by Texas.

[lockedout]

Even if you imply it's responsible on a massive scale (which I doubt, otherwise Texas would be there as well), it still means it isn't a black thing.

No in Arizona it is a mexican gang thing everywhere else it isn't.

[Rukentuts]

No in Arizona it is a mexican gang thing everywhere else it isn't.

How does that work?

[lockedout]

I never said that.

- - - Updated - - -

And Juarez is by Texas.

I'm glad you can read a map.

[Kellhound]

Rukentuts is saying "freedom" is why, as an allusion to gun-loving southern rednecks.

Except that doesn't hold. 10 of the 11 states (Hawaii being the exception)in the US with 1 or less gun murders per 100k in the US in 2010 had gun ownership rates exceeding 30%, 8 of them exceeding 40%, and only Hawaii (of the 11) has less than about 80% non-Hispanic Whites, but it has a majority of Asian-Americans which are the only demographic less likely than Whites (by a small amount) to be victims of homicide.

[Rukentuts]

I'm glad you can read a map.

Yes, and you want me to believe spillover crime from Juarez is less significant than Arizona?