Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[jugzilla]

Oh neat, a thread about gun control. I bet it's full of opinions from people who've never seen a gun outside of news/tv, let alone ever held one. And think you can just walk into any gun store and walk out an hour later with a fully automatic m4.

The anti gun people have science and stuff here. So their opinions are actually fact.

[Tinykong]

The anti gun people have science and stuff here. So their opinions are actually fact.

Not just science.

"Highly scientifically processed" opinions. And scientific studies. And scientific hypotheses.

[Ninjavitis]

Except there is no "science" to gun control, it's all feels and it's all bullshit. The only way gun control will ever be effective, is if we can go back in time and rewrite 200+ years of American history. If gun control worked, Chicago would have minimal crime. So would New York. So would California, and so would every other state that has strict gun control. I'm sure I'm too late to the party, and I'm sure as hell not going to go through 2000+ pages of people thinking they know what they are talking about.

[Mayhem]

Except there is no "science" to gun control, it's all feels and it's all bullshit. The only way gun control will ever be effective, is if we can go back in time and rewrite 200+ years of American history. If gun control worked, Chicago would have minimal crime. So would New York. So would California, and so would every other state that has strict gun control. I'm sure I'm too late to the party, and I'm sure as hell not going to go through 2000+ pages of people thinking they know what they are talking about.

are you talking about crimes involving firearms or crime in general?

[Eroginous]

The anti gun people have science and stuff here. So their opinions are actually fact.

Unfortunately, facts do not work like that. A fact is a statement of truth. A fact holds it's own merit based on the truth of what it claims. A person who relays facts does not need opinions to relay those facts. Often times, when a person expresses their opinion about a set of facts, it's to twist the facts to support their opinions. Sometimes, said expression is just to relay agreement with the facts. Unfortunately, there are a few people here who relentlessly relay the opinions of researchers (studies) as facts/evidence while piggy backing their own opinions.

Not just science.

"Highly scientifically processed" opinions. And scientific studies. And scientific hypotheses.

If you throw a few more 'scientific'-s in there, you could have an infomercial.

[TZucchini]

I quoted the relevant part with context already.

And when you did, I explained quite simply how the full context supported my claim. Which is why you decided to remove the context here.

Not just science.

"Highly scientifically processed" opinions. And scientific studies. And scientific hypotheses.

I absolutely love how scientific studies are now become a mocking point for the pro-gun crowd. Keep it up please. I would imagine the anti-vaxxers do similar things.

"Vaccines cause autism. Doctors don't think so though, because they have these sciencey studies, with sophisticated equipment, but it's really just an opinion, because no one can know for sure, and it can't be proven."

Except there is no "science" to gun control, it's all feels and it's all bullshit.

Oh hey! Welcome to the thread. Just a heads up. The states that you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have among the lowest gun death rate in the nation. Facts are fun!

[PhaelixWW]

Just a heads up. The states that you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have among the lowest gun death rate in the nation. Facts are fun!

Just a heads up: the states you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have a higher rate of firearm homicides as long as you're not inflating other states' numbers with suicides.

And considering the drastically lower gun ownership in those states, the fact that their firearm homicide rates are higher generally implies that more gun control just means that a larger portion of those guns are in the hands of criminals, rather than less.

Facts are fun!

[Mayhem]

Just a heads up: the states you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have a higher rate of firearm homicides as long as you're not inflating other states' numbers with suicides.

And considering the drastically lower gun ownership in those states, the fact that their firearm homicide rates are higher generally implies that more gun control just means that a larger portion of those guns are in the hands of criminals, rather than less.

Facts are fun!

it´s like they have to import them

[Deianeira]

Its not the availability that is the issue, but rather what Tiny said in his post right below yours. Enforce the laws you have against crimes and illegally owned guns better..P

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And that is the real issue.

And where do there illegal guns come from? are there illegal weapon manufaturers? And stores that sell only illegal weapons for criminals?

[Rukentuts]

Just a heads up: the states you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have a higher rate of firearm homicides as long as you're not inflating other states' numbers with suicides.

And considering the drastically lower gun ownership in those states, the fact that their firearm homicide rates are higher generally implies that more gun control just means that a larger portion of those guns are in the hands of criminals, rather than less.

Facts are fun!

In other words, its like what 9/11 said wasn't wrong.

And how about actual studies for the implications you're just making up?

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it´s like they have to import them

No, I'm sure the invisible unenforced lines will stop them from coming from Nevada.

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And where do there illegal guns come from? are there illegal weapon manufaturers? And stores that sell only illegal weapons for criminals?

We can't have gun tracking because paranoia.

[Ghostpanther]

Oh hey! Welcome to the thread. Just a heads up. The states that you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have among the lowest gun death rate in the nation. Facts are fun!

He said Chicago. What is Chicago's gun death rate compared to other large cities in States which have less restrictive gun control?

[Mayhem]

We can't have gun tracking because paranoia.

you can´t have gun tracking because it wouldn´t do anything because reasons.

also it wouldn´t infringe on peoples rights but would give the government the information on who has what guns and that could help the government take them away from law abiding citizens once the government turns against its people!

logic!

[TZucchini]

Just a heads up: the states you mentioned above, California, New York, and Illinois, have a higher rate of firearm homicides as long as you're not inflating other states' numbers with suicides.

Oh I get it. So if we only look at a subsection of all firearm deaths, rather than the entirety of them, it supports your position. I'm not sure how useful that is, but, OK!

Well. If Phaelix says including suicides is "inflating" the statistics, I guess Phaelix is right.

And considering the drastically lower gun ownership in those states

Along with the drastically lower firearm death rates?

the fact that their firearm homicide rates are higher generally implies that more gun control just means that a larger portion of those guns are in the hands of criminals, rather than less.

Facts are fun!

I like how when something is "generally implied" (without evidence to back it up), it then becomes a fact...

[Rukentuts]

He said Chicago. What is Chicago's gun death rate compared to other large cities in States which have less restrictive gun control?

I'll take cherry picking for $1000 Alex.

[Ghostpanther]

And where do there illegal guns come from? are there illegal weapon manufaturers? And stores that sell only illegal weapons for criminals?

I would imagine from any country which manufactures fire arms. US more than likely the most because they are closer to Mexico. :P And I said...illegally owned guns. In other words weapons which have been stolen or transported illegally across the border. And no, every gun made in the US is legally made if he has a serial number and is from known firearm companies, Smith/Wesson , Rugar, Colt, Remington, etc. Brazil also makes a lot of firearms. So I fail to understand your point.

[TZucchini]

He said Chicago. What is Chicago's gun death rate compared to other large cities in States which have less restrictive gun control?

I can't find "gun death rate" specifically, but if we just look at the murder rate, Chicago isn't even in the top ten.

[Ghostpanther]

I can't find "gun death rate" specifically, but if we just look at the murder rate, Chicago isn't even in the top ten.

You did not try very hard...http://www.takepart.com/photos/gun-h...ets-are-flying this shows Chicago listed as one of the top ten gun homicide cities. Also note Oakland Ca. is ranked pretty high and we all know Ca. has some pretty restrictive gun laws. Also, Baltimore, Maryland. Another pretty restrictive gun law State.

[Tinykong]

And when you did, I explained quite simply how the full context supported my claim. Which is why you decided to remove the context here.

Another nice dodge. You've been misspeaking for over two years, we already got to the bottom of it. Now you're just trying to dilute that with these sick burns.

I absolutely love how scientific studies are now become a mocking point for the pro-gun crowd. Keep it up please. I would imagine the anti-vaxxers do similar things.

It's kind of sad that you don't see we're mocking your use of the word scientific as a way to add validity to your opinions and not the scientific method.

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I'll take cherry picking for $1000 Alex.

Kind of like conducting a study and excluding D.C. because it's not a "state."

[Rukentuts]

You did not try very hard...http://www.takepart.com/photos/gun-h...ets-are-flying this shows Chicago listed as one of the top ten gun homicide cities. Also note Oakland Ca. is ranked pretty high and we all know Ca. has some pretty restrictive gun laws. Also, Baltimore, Maryland. Another pretty restrictive gun law State.

Could it be another case of lack of enforcement at invisible lines at work?

[Eroginous]

Kind of like conducting a study and excluding D.C. because it's not a "state."

They don't even understand the difference between a study and actual science. This thread isn't about the latest discoveries in particle physics or micro biology. This is a thread about public policy. A study Is a glorified book report containing the opinions of people who aren't even scientists, let alone qualified individuals following the scientific method.