Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Ghostpanther]

Its a great quote. But it seems outdated.

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."

Take this line of logic for example. While you and your buddies are camping out in the woods waiting for the tyrannical government to show up, they can simply drop a bomb or drone strike on your ass in seconds and that rifle isnt going to do shit. They had no idea what a drone strike even is back then where you can kill hundreds of people in a safety of a locked room far away with a toy controller. So how they pretend people rebelling is a legitimate threat to government these days seems like a twisted joke

Nope. Some things are never outdated. And the right to use firearms to successfully defend your life can never be outdated as long as scums exists in this world.

[Maneo]

They're a little overkill for killing animals.

Would it work sure, but why would I buy a hunting rifle when i don't hunt beyond taking care of some unwelcome wild critters that want to call my land home

5.56 isn't a very powerful round, compared to the 308. Where as the 5.56 has very little recoil and is wicked accurate. Also has the mounts for scopes, flashlights etc very handy in a rural environment.

Using the gentleman that saved my young self from the Godzilla/Hog half breed. It took 3 shots to drop it, know what it did after the first one... charged him. Imagine if he had a bolt action ...

[Ghostpanther]

So the founding founders knew that gun technology would advance this far but forgot about you know the slaves, women rights part of the equation? I am sorry but I just find it disturbing when people hold the founding founders like they were all seeing gods, they were flawed men who wrote a document suited for their time.

Jefferson was a lifetime slave owner, he was a racist, hypocrite among many things just a man of his time.

None of them were perfect, like any of us. But I still admire the principles they put forth in the Constitution as being the foundation of our nation. Which by the way, help lead us to the path of abolishing slavery, women the right to vote and gays the right to equal treatment under the law of marriage. You may despise them, but I do not hold that opinion.

[RobertoCarlos]

Nope. Some things are never outdated. And the right to use firearms to successfully defend your life can never be outdated as long as scums exists in this world.

Still dont see why you need a big gun to do this instead of just having a smaller gun

[PhaelixWW]

How easy is it buying said extended mags for handguns? Isnt that gonna put you on a registry? Seems so specific you know the customer has some dark shit on their mind.

Nope. But the same thing could be said about a magazine for any firearm. So again, at best, that's an argument for magazine capacity, not any specific firearm.

Hunting rifle would be much more difficult to operate in a school environment.

You're assuming that hunting rifles aren't ever semi-automatic. There are lots.

I'm not gonna jump onto the whole "Its not a machine gun because its not automatic" trap. You use those rifles for their rate of fire.

No, you use those firearms for a variety of reasons. When you're hunting, rate of fire is generally far down the list. But even when it's an important factor, there's a difference between firing a couple of shots in quick succession, and " riddl[ing something] with holes like a swiss cheese" (your words). When you're hunting, you'll never, ever squeeze the trigger as fast as you can until your magazine is empty.

[Ghostpanther]

Did you use a hand gun to defend yourself with? or an assault rifle. Because I want it to be clear I have no problem with handguns/hunting rifles. Im talking about weapons with massive potential to kill. And even though hand guns can kill too and have the higher kill count in some mass shooting cases. You might not get 4 cops sitting behind their cars waiting for back up with a hand gun threat vs a dude in full military get up

Lol! Massive potential to kill? Yet you overlook the facts that handguns kill more people by far than rifles do. And was actually used for the worse mass killing in a school in our history here.

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How easy is it buying said extended mags for handguns? Isnt that gonna put you on a registry? Seems so specific you know the customer has some dark shit on their mind.

Hunting rifle would be much more difficult to operate in a school environment. I mean sure if you get some freak that makes a snipers nest and rains down on the school you might get some serious trouble, but at least their movement would be limited and they cant walk hall to hall firing in rooms being near unstoppable

I'm not gonna jump onto the whole "Its not a machine gun because its not automatic" trap. You use those rifles for their rate of fire. Otherwise whats the point, the animal is gone after the first shot so of course people are gonna fire multiple rounds

Easily. Some handguns come standard with 16 + 1 round magazines.

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Still dont see why you need a big gun to do this instead of just having a smaller gun

Well, at this point, you need to understand, while you are entitled to your opinion, it really has no bearing on what will happen here. While I get to vote and write my representatives. I will continue to exercise my rights under our Constitution, while you express your opinion.

[Maneo]

I want to commend AlexisSanchez for at least he/she is willing to discuss and hasn't followed suite w/what most of the anti gun people do.

[PhaelixWW]

I want to commend AlexisSanchez for at least he/she is willing to discuss and hasn't followed suite w/what most of the anti gun people do.

This is definitely true. It's a large part of the reason why I've un/lurked for a while to post some rebuttals.

[RobertoCarlos]

I want to commend AlexisSanchez for at least he/she is willing to discuss and hasn't followed suite w/what most of the anti gun people do.

Cheers!

I think its an interesting subject. And i'm not anti guns at all I'm aware mental illness is the big problem. I just think the frequency these shootings are happening now something needs to be done soon. And arming teachers and treating schools like prisons doesnt sound like a very fun future

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Nope. But the same thing could be said about a magazine for any firearm. So again, at best, that's an argument for magazine capacity, not any specific firearm.

You're assuming that hunting rifles aren't ever semi-automatic. There are lots.

Those are good points. Maybe magazine size is where I have the problem. But then the shooters normally have lots of back up ammo or secondary guns anyway :/

[Maneo]

Cheers!

I think its an interesting subject. And i'm not anti guns at all I'm aware mental illness is the big problem. I just think the frequency these shootings are happening now something needs to be done soon. And arming teachers and treating schools like prisons doesnt sound like a very fun future
:/

Most schools are damn near prisons anyhow.

As far as arming teachers... , don't think we should arm them but they should be able to carry if they want

[RobertoCarlos]

Most schools are damn near prisons anyhow.

As far as arming teachers... , don't think we should arm them but they should be able to carry if they want

Just seems kinda fucked when you have kids going through metal detectors on the way to biology because a lot of people love their guns too much

[JustaWarlock]

Gotcha. So because 0.1% (0.01? 0.001? I don't know) of the population is deranged, disregards human life, and has the conscience to take human life, everyone should suffer?

But that's how society works. We have rule of law for a reason, and there are a whole lot of laws passed to protect citizens from themselves and eachother. Why are guns exempt? Apply this gun logic to a whole bunch of other rules and regulations and you sound crazy. How does the rest of the civilised world survive quite well, but America will implode if little Timmy can't buy 15 assault rifles for his 18th birthday?

Why are the republicans so opposed to restricting assault rifles from the mentally ill, why are they actively weakening background check requirements and making it easier.

Just doesn't make sense to me. And having all the teachers carry concealed weapons and locking the school down like a maximum security prison? Sounds absolutely terrible to me, a horrible way to grow up.

[PhaelixWW]

Just seems kinda fucked when you have kids going through metal detectors on the way to biology because a lot of people love their guns too much

I feel pretty confident saying that kids going through metal detectors is a problem with gangs, not gun owners.

[RobertoCarlos]

I feel pretty confident saying that kids going through metal detectors is a problem with gangs, not gun owners.

Yea thats probably fair. Metal detectors where already being used before these more recent attacks.

Gonna have even more of them now though after this shooting. And its gone up to another extreme with talk of teachers being hit men as well now

[PhaelixWW]

But that's how society works. We have rule of law for a reason, and there are a whole lot of laws passed to protect citizens from themselves and eachother. Why are guns exempt?

They're not exempt. But unlike other things/subjects, they have Constitutional protection.

Apply this gun logic to a whole bunch of other rules and regulations and you sound crazy. How does the rest of the civilised world survive quite well, but America will implode if little Timmy can't buy 15 assault rifles for his 18th birthday?

Why does anyone care if he buys more than one anyway? It's not like he can use all 15 at the same time. And is the same vitriol used if Timmy buys a Ruger Mini-14, a Remington 742, or a Springfield M1A? All are as powerful or more powerful than an AR-15, but without the stigma. And none are typically mis-monikered as an assault rifle, unlike an AR-15.

Why are the republicans so opposed to restricting assault rifles from the mentally ill, why are they actively weakening background check requirements and making it easier.

Background check requirements are not being weakened. And the dangerously mentally ill have been prohibited from buying/owning firearms for a while.

[Macaquerie]

Why does anyone care if he buys more than one anyway? It's not like he can use all 15 at the same time. And is the same vitriol used if Timmy buys a Ruger Mini-14, a Remington 742, or a Springfield M1A? All are as powerful or more powerful than an AR-15, but without the stigma. And none are typically mis-monikered as an assault rifle, unlike an AR-15.

That's because those three were designed as semi-automatic rifles, whereas the AR-15 was designed as an automatic weapon but had that feature disabled for the sole purpose of being able to sell it on the civilian market. It's round is less powerful because that was a choice the designers made to keep it more controllable in its intended fully automatic form, though it does have the side benefit of making it easier to handle for random civilians as well. Perhaps looking like a military assault rifle is a reason it gets so much hate, but on the other hand, it's also the main reason why most of its customers want to buy one as well.

[melodramocracy]

They're not exempt. But unlike other things/subjects, they have Constitutional protection.

They do have constitutional protection, but other protections, like freedom of speech, have limitations, and that is where the crux of this issue is.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep, and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

We can ascertain what most of the intent here is. What cannot be ascertained on face value of this statement is how 'future-proof' it was intended to be.

I'm not sure why anyone would be against background checks (not saying you are specifically). I'm also not sure why anyone would be against the idea that weaponry that very clearly falls outside the realm of home protection / self defense should also require proof of competency on the part of the purchaser.

[JustaWarlock]

They're not exempt. But unlike other things/subjects, they have Constitutional protection.



Why does anyone care if he buys more than one anyway? It's not like he can use all 15 at the same time. And is the same vitriol used if Timmy buys a Ruger Mini-14, a Remington 742, or a Springfield M1A? All are as powerful or more powerful than an AR-15, but without the stigma. And none are typically mis-monikered as an assault rifle, unlike an AR-15.



Background check requirements are not being weakened. And the dangerously mentally ill have been prohibited from buying/owning firearms for a while.

One of the first things Trump did when he got into office was to make it easier for the mentally ill to purchase guns. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221

Seems pretty crazy to me.

[PhaelixWW]

One of the first things Trump did when he got into office was to make it easier for the mentally ill to purchase guns. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221

Seems pretty crazy to me.

That's perhaps because you didn't read into it more carefully.

First, that rule was only in place for a few months. So it's hard to imply enough importance in its presence to decry its removal.

Second, as I said before, the dangerously mentally ill are already prohibited from possessing firearms. So this rule would seem to be target the non-dangerous. Which brings us to...

Third, there's this little thing called due process. It's not enough to just say "let's keep this right from certain people". You have to have a legitimate justification to do so. And while there's a legitimate reason to block firearm ownership from people who have been institutionalized or been deemed to be a danger to themself or others, there's no such justification for the additional group of people who would have been blocked by the rule in question.

[XangXu]

If your country seriously decided to try and ban assualt weapons, you would basicly be facing an angry army of rednecks who are armed, radicalized, and obsessed with government oppression... If your country seriously moves to limit assault weapons, people, government employees, cops, WILL be killed...

It would be as if the government declared war on half the country if they moved to ban such weapons, and you know it.