Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Saucexorzski]

The fact that fiction and reality is hard to distinguish from each other for you seems reason enough to don't have this topic on a children's forum.

If you find the contents of this site not appropriate for your children the onus is on you to prevent them from contact. Your choice of action to ban the content is just you being lazy in policing your own child by expecting others to do the work for you.

[Zoranon]

The fact that fiction and reality is hard to distinguish from each other for you seems reason enough to don't have this topic on a children's forum.

EU avatar: Check
Wannabe censor: Check

How unsurprising. If you are so disturbed by discussion of firearms law and firearms safety, then do not read this thread.

And in fact, every child would benefit from reading some of the safety tips that were discussed on these pages.

[PhaelixWW]

The fact that fiction and reality is hard to distinguish from each other for you seems reason enough to don't have this topic on a children's forum.

Ah yes, a personal attack as rebuttal.

Ad hominem aside, nothing in my statement demonstrates a lack of ability to distinguish real violence from simulated violence, hence my inclusion of that word. Perhaps you just didn't read it as carefully as you thought?

And we're not comparing "real violence" and "simulated violence". We're comparing talking about (rather than doing) non-violence (rather than violence) with actual simulated violence. And yet you apparently think one is over-the-top and the other is just make-believe.

Personally, I think both are fine topics on this forum, which is not specifically a "children's" forum either, though it does have children who are visitors.

Posts that actually encouraged the use of real violence, however, are another matter entirely.

[Citizen T]

If you want to discuss gun control please do so. If you want to complain about the appropriateness of this thread then contact any mod or global mod

[Roxinius]

The fact that fiction and reality is hard to distinguish from each other for you seems reason enough to don't have this topic on a children's forum.

If it bothers you so much then get off the site

[Vermented]

I'm just looking out for those non-American children who are getting infected by the idea that owning a weapon is "normal", which it isn't.

[Ghostpanther]

Finally actual common sense gun safety law introduced in AZ.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/gun...#axzz5j6UMCESX

That is a very rational appeal of a law which put a unnecessary burden on a firearm carrier when they are just driving up to a school to pick up a child or drop one off. In Ohio, we do not have to unload our weapons in said situation.

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EU avatar: Check
Wannabe censor: Check

How unsurprising. If you are so disturbed by discussion of firearms law and firearms safety, then do not read this thread.

And in fact, every child would benefit from reading some of the safety tips that were discussed on these pages.

Very true. Which is why I brought up the case of the singer accidentally shooting himself when his firearm in his pocket went off. You never carry a handgun in your pocket without it being in a pocket holster, as they will encase the trigger and help protect it from being moved. Schools should teach basic firearm safety in the US I believe.

[zenkai]

That is a very rational appeal of a law which put a unnecessary burden on a firearm carrier when they are just driving up to a school to pick up a child or drop one off. In Ohio, we do not have to unload our weapons in said situation.

For real, like this law would stop anyone who actually wanted to commit harm.

[MaGoGo]

I'm just looking out for those non-American children who are getting infected by the idea that owning a weapon is "normal", which it isn't.

True! Im okay that small weapons are allowed to sell and buy for self defense but NOT machine guns etc.

[Reaper0329]

True! Im okay that small weapons are allowed to sell and buy for self defense but NOT machine guns etc.

Machine guns aren't, generally, allowed to be bought and sold. I mean, not freely...I can't go into the local Walmart and walk out with an M60. I think this is a major misconception.

It is possible to get a fully automatic weapon (a machine gun) in the US. It is extremely difficult to do so for a number of reasons; the NFA requires you jump through several legal hurdles, that you get approval by...I want to say the sheriff's office in your jurisdiction, and I don't know if it's "may issue" or "shall issue"...wait forever for approval and the appropriate tax stamp, and submit your fingerprints. Then you've got to have **thousands** on hand to buy one...if you can find one from a Class III dealer (those are rare themselves), and then you've gotta understand that we can't import or manufacture any since...I want to say 1984?

I also think I've made this exact post before. Strong deja vu here.

But yeah. Machine guns aren't something your average Joe can get, and the nature of the law ensures eventually, the supply of them will die out entirely.

[Ghostpanther]

True! Im okay that small weapons are allowed to sell and buy for self defense but NOT machine guns etc.

Very few citizens have machine guns in the US. They have to be manufactured before a certain date, must get a Federal stamp (which requires a intensive back ground check ) and the ones which are in private hands are very, very expensive if you want to buy one. Too much for the average citizen to want to purchase. A AR-15 is not a machine gun. It is only semi-automatic. Not much different than a any other semi-auto rifle, except it looks scarier.

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Machine guns aren't, generally, allowed to be bought and sold. I mean, not freely...I can't go into the local Walmart and walk out with an M60. I think this is a major misconception.

It is possible to get a fully automatic weapon (a machine gun) in the US. It is extremely difficult to do so for a number of reasons; the FFA requires you jump through several legal hurdles, that you get approval by...I want to say the sheriff's office in your jurisdiction, and I don't know if it's "may issue" or "shall issue"...wait forever for approval and the appropriate tax stamp, and submit your fingerprints. Then you've got to have **thousands** on hand to buy one...if you can find one from a Class III dealer (those are rare themselves), and then you've gotta understand that we can't import or manufacture any since...I want to say 1984?

I also think I've made this exact post before. Strong deja vu here.

But yeah. Machine guns aren't something your average Joe can get, and the nature of the law ensures eventually, the supply of them will die out entirely.

Sometimes it is important to repeat something. Hehe. Well said.

[Svifnymr]

In the USA, any machinegun made after 1986's change can only be sold/ possessed by law enforcement/ military. If a machinegun was made and registered before 1986, it can be sold. Since there are a finite amount and no new ones, prices rise steadily. A cheap little mac-10 will run $8000+ rather than the $400 it's worth.

All National Firearm Act weapons (machineguns, silencers, short barrel rifle or short barrel shotgun) require a $200 transfer tax, fingerprints for a background check. Transfers are very backlogged now, running 10ish months for a simple background check. You no longer need "local law enforcement" sign off, you simply send them a notification and if they have some reason for you to not have one that is not already represented by the background check, they can contact ATF at their leisure.

The NFA is a pretty stupid process, and few other countries treat an AR15 differently based on the length of the barrel. A lot of countries regulate silencers (which are not silent) as accessories (I mean, they're useless without the gun) and obviously they are of great utility in hunting so you do not damage hearing. They were added because of fears of poachers or something.

Like New Zealand, the 86 ban on new MG's was over reach. Since they were registered in 1934, there had been few if any instances of a legal MG being used in a crime. Gotta ban things anyway, because "people don't need" whatever you don't like.


An example of the stupidity of NFA SBR laws;
Legal pistol: (no stock)


SBR: (has stock, $200 tax stamp, finger prints required.)

[Reaper0329]

-Very succinct summary of the National Firearms Act-

Very well said.

U.S.C. 922r is another one that's a doozy. You, I'm sure, have got some familiarity with it, but for everyone else...give it a gander.

I've got a WASR10 (semi-auto AK clone) that, because of that law, is perfectly legal with one magazine, holding thirty rounds, and illegal with another magazine, holding the same 30 rounds but manufactured in Bulgaria instead of being manufactured stateside. It's ridiculous.

[IIamaKing]

Very well said.

U.S.C. 922r is another one that's a doozy. You, I'm sure, have got some familiarity with it, but for everyone else...give it a gander.

I've got a WASR10 (semi-auto AK clone) that, because of that law, is perfectly legal with one magazine, holding thirty rounds, and illegal with another magazine, holding the same 30 rounds but manufactured in Bulgaria instead of being manufactured stateside. It's ridiculous.

Whats more amusing is, do you think an average LEO would KNOW that your non US magazine is in violation?

[Svifnymr]

Very well said.

U.S.C. 922r is another one that's a doozy. You, I'm sure, have got some familiarity with it, but for everyone else...give it a gander.

I've got a WASR10 (semi-auto AK clone) that, because of that law, is perfectly legal with one magazine, holding thirty rounds, and illegal with another magazine, holding the same 30 rounds but manufactured in Bulgaria instead of being manufactured stateside. It's ridiculous.

My VZ58 needs to be 922(r) compliant as an SBR. So the Pistol pictured doesn't need any US parts since it's a pistol. The second picture, as a rifle, requires the magazine with 2 US parts in it so as not to be illegal. Of course, 922(r) is about modifying a firearm, not the current status of a firearm. So if I bought a rifle already illegally built without the US parts, there's no illegal act and the item is not illegal.

Unclear is if changing a magazine is modifying or just normal use, so if I build my rifle with the proper US parts, but use other magazines without those parts, am I now modifying the firearm? If I changed this pistol grip to an imported one, I'd think that's modifying, certainly, but is it? The law doesn't define things specifically...

Not that ATF has ever actually arrested anyone for 922(r) or enforced the law in any way, but it exists!

Likewise, if you modify an imported part, it becomes a US made part (DSA had it out with ATF about it), but they never defined the extent of modification needed. If we drill holes in our magazine bodies and followers, are they now US Made? ATF doesn't know, so how should we?

Yet another stupid law.

[Reaper0329]

Whats more amusing is, do you think an average LEO would KNOW that your non US magazine is in violation?

Oh God no. lol Especially where I live...small Southern town. I doubt one of my town's police officers know that law exists (not for lack of intelligence, mind you), and I'm almost positive none of them here would enforce it, unless one was being an absolute dickbag to the one officer who knows it exists.

I'm just amused the law exists. It seems like the single most asinine restriction ever. "Ah yes, an AK47...that's just fiii-IS THAT A YUGOSLAVIAN GAS PISTON????"

[Svifnymr]

Oh God no. lol Especially where I live...small Southern town. I doubt one of my town's police officers know that law exists (not for lack of intelligence, mind you), and I'm almost positive none of them here would enforce it, unless one was being an absolute dickbag to the one officer who knows it exists.

I'm just amused the law exists. It seems like the single most asinine restriction ever. "Ah yes, an AK47...that's just fiii-IS THAT A YUGOSLAVIAN GAS PISTON????"

It is basically just a reaction to the 89 & 98 import restrictions, they couldn't import an AK in standard configuration, so they would import them with thumbhole stock ("sporterized") and then the first Romanian SAR's came in with narrow mag-wells that couldn't accept regular magazines. So they came up with a legal definition of what is considered an "imported rifle" vs US made. So you could import a VZ58 that only took single stack magazines, but if you just widened the mag well, it would still be considered an imported rifle. It was always geared towards manufacturers (lets be honest, it was directed at Century Arms) or such, but then the kit market began (until ITAR cracked down on it) and it became a cottage industry.

[Reaper0329]

It is basically just a reaction to the 89 & 98 import restrictions, they couldn't import an AK in standard configuration, so they would import them with thumbhole stock ("sporterized") and then the first Romanian SAR's came in with narrow mag-wells that couldn't accept regular magazines. So they came up with a legal definition of what is considered an "imported rifle" vs US made. So you could import a VZ58 that only took single stack magazines, but if you just widened the mag well, it would still be considered an imported rifle. It was always geared towards manufacturers (lets be honest, it was directed at Century Arms) or such, but then the kit market began (until ITAR cracked down on it) and it became a cottage industry.

While I know about the single stack mag wells and sporterized stocks, that's about the first time anyone has ever articulated a...to be clear, I'm not saying "sensible," because 922(r) but...plausible explanation for 922(r) to me. "Plausible" being a statement of quality rather than credibility, for the record.

Well done, sir.

[Svifnymr]

While I know about the single stack mag wells and sporterized stocks, that's about the first time anyone has ever articulated a...to be clear, I'm not saying "sensible," because 922(r) but...plausible explanation for 922(r) to me. "Plausible" being a statement of quality rather than credibility, for the record.

Well done, sir.

The odd thing is the DSA/ ATF stuff. DSA had some parts which they brought in and modified and considered them US made. I think they went back and forth with ATF over it, but ATF buckled first because they didn't want it to go to court where they'd lose and the law would become mostly worthless. Same with "silencer wipes are silencer parts" stuff.

But then, that means modifying an imported receiver to take high caps now makes it a US part? Or threading a foreign barrel? Who knows, but unless you got lawyer money to fight it, probably not worth the effort.

The other oddball case is the Beretta CX4 storm. It is imported with a thumbhole stock, but takes high cap magazines. The design is such that I don't even think it HAS 10 of the parts from the list, but there has never been an official ruling on it's parts count. Since I don't think there was ever a version deemed non-importable, you can't really say you're converting it to a version that is non-importable! So if you want to thread the barrel, who knows the legality of it. It might come back to how this started and be legal with a US magazine, but illegal with an italian one...

Stupid laws.

[Impersonal]

Oh God no. lol Especially where I live...small Southern town. I doubt one of my town's police officers know that law exists (not for lack of intelligence, mind you), and I'm almost positive none of them here would enforce it, unless one was being an absolute dickbag to the one officer who knows it exists.

I'm just amused the law exists. It seems like the single most asinine restriction ever. "Ah yes, an AK47...that's just fiii-IS THAT A YUGOSLAVIAN GAS PISTON????"

You'd be surprised. You've probably got a better chance at finding "gun guy" LEO's in your small town than say where I live in South Florida. While there are definitely LEO's that are knowledgeable about firearms, there are tons that simply strap on their firearm as part of the uniform and would make you cringe handling a firearm as if they were never taught the 4 main rules of firearm safety. Alas, that is the city/suburbs for you.

While I always inform im carrying as a courtesy, my record has been 2-1. 2 Officers didn't care, the other 1 proceeded to treat my G19 as if it were some moon fossil or intricate bomb, muzzling me in the process of trying to unload it. At least they took my advice and took the entire holster out to keep the trigger guard covered while disarming me; guy can eat my ass for dumping the mag though lol. Officer safety; I get it.

The ATF's ruling on "pistols"/SBRs and sig braces has always been pretty hilarious to me; meanwhile, you can find your local(at least in my area) politician bloviating about fully semi-automatic, 600 rounds per minute, civilians with weapons of war(Police/Sheriff are civilian, mind you) and only offering canned form letters that interns send out when you try to educate them politely. It's a real brain teaser why more people don't vote.