Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Draco-Onis]

No way. Tough screening sends up a red flag. I would not want a biased, liberal doctor making a decision if I should have a firearm. :P How about just enforcing the laws we already have on the books? I am not against Universal back ground checks if that is all it is about.

Do a background check before a person buys a firearm, which should check to see if the applicant was ever committed to a mental hospital and if a cure was successful and check the court records to see if the applicant has committed any crimes which would bar them from getting one. Like they do here when I got my conceal carry license.

All doctors are biased liberals?

Why believe the mental hospital then? evil liberal doctors may be up to no good

[Ghostpanther]

All doctors are biased liberals?

Why believe the mental hospital then? evil liberal doctors may be up to no good

I never said all would be. But some could be. I can see that situation not being a good solution and it could be be misused. A doctor can be called upon by the court if needed, for them to make a decision if a person is mentally incapable of having a firearm. Remember, we are dealing with a Constitutional right here. Not a privilege.

[Draco-Onis]

I never said all would be. But some could be. I can see that situation not being a good solution and it could be be misused. A doctor can be called upon by the court if needed, for them to make a decision if a person is mentally incapable of having a firearm. Remember, we are dealing with a Constitutional right here. Not a privilege.

Why not screen them maybe have a panel constituting a lawyer and some medical professional. Your concern is more on people having access to guns while it should be someone who is mentally ill having easy access to it. The ability for those with mental problems to get guns has increased under the guise of your logic and the safeguards that were removed have been replaced with nothing.

[Stormdash]

"Mental illness" generally is far too broad and vague a bar. People with depression or anxiety, people with OCD or ADHD, should not be per se prohibited possessors.

[Draco-Onis]

"Mental illness" generally is far too broad and vague a bar. People with depression or anxiety, people with OCD or ADHD, should not be per se prohibited possessors.

That is a fair criticism the criteria needs to be defined such as what level of depression and what type of mental illness but right now we are acting after the fact and have little safeguards.

[Galactis]

"Mental illness" generally is far too broad and vague a bar. People with depression or anxiety, people with OCD or ADHD, should not be per se prohibited possessors.

If that was the case, 90% of the world would not have guns. lol

[Ghostpanther]

Why not screen them maybe have a panel constituting a lawyer and some medical professional. Your concern is more on people having access to guns while it should be someone who is mentally ill having easy access to it. The ability for those with mental problems to get guns has increased under the guise of your logic and the safeguards that were removed have been replaced with nothing.

No need. The background checks we have in place and some reasonable red flag laws, are enough. Those who commit crimes with firearms are generally not mentally ill. They are crooks and in the case of the mass shootings in schools and such., scums. The Parkland shooting took place because red flags were ignored and security the school had failed to do their jobs.

[petej0]

Your argument is people gonna break the law so why have them... brilliant.

Hmm...Lets see. Nope, thats not what I said. If you want to have an honest conversation lets have it. If you are going to characterize what I said, then we have nothing left to talk about.

[Stormdash]

No need. The background checks we have in place and some reasonable red flag laws, are enough. Those who commit crimes with firearms are generally not mentally ill. They are crooks and in the case of the mass shootings in schools and such., scums. The Parkland shooting took place because red flags were ignored and security the school had failed to do their jobs.

Probably 70% of my concern about red-flag laws would be solved if there was a remedy that didn't involve government confiscation. Pending due process resolution, you should be able to store your weapons in a safe deposit box or with a friend/family member - establish strict liability if access is granted prior to resolution if you must, but there is no reason at all that the government needs to confiscate such arms where they might (and so frequently are) lost or 'accidentally' destroyed.

[Galactis]

I don't get it. Why would people want to give up liberty for safety?...

[Ghostpanther]

Probably 70% of my concern about red-flag laws would be solved if there was a remedy that didn't involve government confiscation. Pending due process resolution, you should be able to store your weapons in a safe deposit box or with a friend/family member - establish strict liability if access is granted prior to resolution if you must, but there is no reason at all that the government needs to confiscate such arms where they might (and so frequently are) lost or 'accidentally' destroyed.

That is a reasonable concern too. And I like the solution. The fact the police had several red flags on the Parkland shooter and never did anything about it, does show a failure on their part. Same for the Texas church shooter. The Air Force itself, failed to follow the procedure of reporting the shooter to the FBI. Which allowed him to purchase the firearm he used in the shooting in another state.

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I don't get it. Why would people want to give up liberty for safety?...

Well, in my case, giving up my right to keep and carry a firearm for self defense, would be giving up both.

[petej0]

That is a reasonable concern too. And I like the solution. The fact the police had several red flags on the Parkland shooter and never did anything about it, does show a failure on their part. Same for the Texas church shooter. The Air Force itself, failed to follow the procedure of reporting the shooter to the FBI. Which allowed him to purchase the firearm he used in the shooting in another state.

Exactly, another example is the pulse night club shooter who passed multiple back ground checks and psychological evaluations which were required for his job. There the system failed as well.

[Galactis]

What about "normal", people who can own a gun and just one day decide to go shoot up places. There's absolutely no way to stop that kind of thing. I wouldn't even ask for legislation to be presented to try and ban it or change it. It's a very slippery slope when asking for fundamental rights being taken away.

[Ghostpanther]

Exactly, another example is the pulse night club shooter who passed multiple back ground checks and psychological evaluations which were required for his job. There the system failed as well.

Yep. In some cases, the only effective thing which will work, is counter defensive steps.

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What about "normal", people who can own a gun and just one day decide to go shoot up places. There's absolutely no way to stop that kind of thing. I wouldn't even ask for legislation to be presented to try and ban it or change it. It's a very slippery slope when asking for fundamental rights being taken away.

Oh yeah. But you see, there are some which are calling for a repeal of the Second Amendment. Even a retired Supreme Court Justice has come out calling for it. Which is why it is important to resist unreasonable hindrances for the citizens in exercising their right to keep and carry firearms with some proposed laws.

[Draco-Onis]

No need. The background checks we have in place and some reasonable red flag laws, are enough. Those who commit crimes with firearms are generally not mentally ill. They are crooks and in the case of the mass shootings in schools and such., scums. The Parkland shooting took place because red flags were ignored and security the school had failed to do their jobs.

/facepalm

so you are okay with people who are mentally ill getting guns? you realize that guns play a big part in suicides? people who kill their families and themselves?

[Ghostpanther]

/facepalm

so you are okay with people who are mentally ill getting guns? you realize that guns play a big part in suicides? people who kill their families and themselves?

You are guilty of putting words in other posters mouths. People who want to commit suicides, can find many other ways to do it besides using a firearm. Japan proves that.

[Draco-Onis]

You are guilty of putting words in other posters mouths. People who want to commit suicides, can find many other ways to do it besides using a firearm. Japan proves that.

Yes and we want to tackle those problems and make it less likely they succeed even more so killing others while doing so. I asked you questions which you chose not to answer not statements so basically you are saying because Japan you are fine with mentally ill people getting guns?

[Ghostpanther]

Yes and we want to tackle those problems and make it less likely they succeed even more so killing others while doing so. I asked you questions which you chose not to answer not statements so basically you are saying because Japan you are fine with mentally ill people getting guns?

If they are really mentally ill, of course not. The so called mass shooters which some doctors would say they are mentally ill, were successful in carrying out their missions because of reasons not even associated with their so called mental illness. I have answered your questions, you just do not like my answers.

[Draco-Onis]

If they are really mentally ill, of course not. The so called mass shooters which some doctors would say they are mentally ill, were successful in carrying out their missions because of reasons not even associated with their so called mental illness. I have answered your questions, you just do not like my answers.

You keep harping on mass shooters but mental illness is a big problem in this country and we shouldn't freely let them have guns. The fact is our health care system is horrible especially mental health which keeps getting cuts and people fall through the cracks. The people who need help don't end up in mental hospitals and those are a shit show unto themselves.

[Ghostpanther]

You keep harping on mass shooters but mental illness is a big problem in this country and we shouldn't freely let them have guns. The fact is our health care system is horrible especially mental health which keeps getting cuts and people fall through the cracks. The people who need help don't end up in mental hospitals and those are a shit show unto themselves.

Then push for better mental health care to your representative. That would be a noble cause.