Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[BeepBoo]

This has been disproven about a gazillion times in this thread and yet you continue to push the lie. Why?

Say what?

All numbers for US.

"In 2019, an estimated 38,800 people lost their lives to car crashes"
https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safe...2018%20figures.

"Total number of murders [by guns]: 15,403"
"Total number of mass shootings: 418"
"Total number of deaths in mass shootings: 181"
(numbers for 2019)
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Want to try again? Are you talking about ALL gun related deaths, including suicide? Like those people wouldn't find some other way to off themselves...

[Specialka]

Say what?

All numbers for US.

"In 2019, an estimated 38,800 people lost their lives to car crashes"
https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safe...2018%20figures.

"Total number of murders [by guns]: 15,403"
"Total number of mass shootings: 418"
"Total number of deaths in mass shootings: 181"
(numbers for 2019)
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Want to try again? Are you talking about ALL gun related deaths, including suicide? Like those people wouldn't find some other way to off themselves...

Well, to be honest, suicide by guns is easier than jumping from a cliff or hanging oneself. So, yes, having an easy access to guns do contribute to more suicides or suicide attempts.

[Stormdash]

That's a good start. And why would you need magazine with more than 10 ammo ? Does that tax also apply to handgun clip ? If not, there is no issue here as a handgun is for protection, an assault rifle is not.

It's facially unconstitutional and non-compliance will be near universal. It's a policy by frauds championed by fools.

And you need more than 10 rounds because what you think you know about ballistics and the human body from all the TV shows and movies you've seen is not true.

Also, it's not up to you what people "need" anyway.

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wait till the accidental gun deaths and suicides' spike and people realize, oh shit this was not such a good idea.

and oh no taxes go up. the horror.
gee i wish people would get this outraged for property taxes around here.

Funny the outrage from people on the right about creating barriers to a "right".


P.s i wonder how many 2A folks are going to rise up against the tyrannical govt preventing people from voting and voting by mail.... its go time, so where are they??

you guys are gonna be out there cheering and hoping for them just like you are waiting for conservatives to suddenly become gun control advocates because of how many of those first time owners are black.

Problem is you always disappoint me by never holding your breath until you're proven right.

[Zan15]

Say what?

"In 2019, an estimated 38,800 people lost their lives to car crashes"
https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safe...2018%20figures.

"Total number of murders [by guns]: 15,403"
"Total number of mass shootings: 418"
"Total number of deaths in mass shootings: 181"
(numbers for 2019)
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Want to try again? Are you talking about ALL gun related deaths, including suicide? Like those people wouldn't find some other way to off themselves...

Go back and read the thread i am not rehashing death rates per all over again.
the math is all included in this thread that show the huge difference.


https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52430101

[BeepBoo]

Well, to be honest, suicide by guns is easier than jumping from a cliff or hanging oneself. So, yes, having an easy access to guns do contribute to more suicides or suicide attempts.

Anyone that wants to off themselves and relieve society of the burden of having to care for them is a-ok in my book.

Point is: just because a gun makes it easier, if the person is that desperate, there are still even easier ways that also get utilized. 47,173 suicides vs 15k of those caused by gun. People who want to kill themselves will find a way.

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Go back and read the thread i am not rehashing death rates per all over again.
the math is all included in this thread that show the huge difference.

Hard numbers > rates.

No one cares about rates. If I did, I'd think places like chicago weren't bad. All I care about is total number of incidents and total deaths. nice way to shift what you said to some entirely different statistic, though.

[Specialka]

It's facially unconstitutional and non-compliance will be near universal. It's a policy by frauds championed by fools.

And you need more than 10 rounds because what you think you know about ballistics and the human body from all the TV shows and movies you've seen is not true.

Also, it's not up to you what people "need" anyway.

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you guys are gonna be out there cheering and hoping for them just like you are waiting for conservatives to suddenly become gun control advocates because of how many of those first time owners are black.

Problem is you always disappoint me by never holding your breath until you're proven right.

Yep, ppl tend to not need to be shot 10 times to die in real life, espcially when most of the shots are coming from less than 10 meters as it is at that range that you would "defend youself" from an opponent.

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Anyone that wants to off themselves and relieve society of the burden of having to care for them is a-ok in my book.

Point is: just because a gun makes it easier, if the person is that desperate, there are still even easier ways that also get utilized. 47,173 suicides vs 15k of those caused by gun. People who want to kill themselves will find a way.

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Hard numbers > rates.

No one cares about rates. If I did, I'd think places like chicago weren't bad. All I care about is total number of incidents and total deaths. nice way to shift what you said to some entirely different statistic, though.

I was pretty sure you would respond in such a barbaric way. How predictable. I guess we should execute every single person sent to an asylum. And older people as well.

[Zan15]

you guys are gonna be out there cheering and hoping for them just like you are waiting for conservatives to suddenly become gun control advocates because of how many of those first time owners are black.

Problem is you always disappoint me by never holding your breath until you're proven right.

No we won't because this excuse that they will rise up against a tyrannical govt is total bullshit.
There will be no one to cheer for.

Funny how people like you continue to assume liberals and blacks don't own guns.
All you have to do to make a conservative a GC advocate is show him stats and video of more and more minorities getting guns.

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Hard numbers > rates.

No one cares about rates. If I did, I'd think places like chicago weren't bad. All I care about is total number of incidents and total deaths. nice way to shift what you said to some entirely different statistic, though.

HAHAHAH, no one cares about rates.
You mean people who want to hide facts don't care about the actual details.

[Elegiac]

Funny how people like you continue to assume liberals and blacks don't own guns.
All you have to do to make a conservative a GC advocate is show him stats and video of more and more minorities getting guns.

*gestures at Ronald Reagan*

[BeepBoo]

HAHAHAH, no one cares about rates.
You mean people who want to hide facts don't care about the actual details.

They're both facts. The number of deaths per each is the number of deaths per each. The rate of death per <whatever filter you want to put on it> is what it is. You're choosing to care about one statistic more than the other. That's it.

I was pretty sure you would respond in such a barbaric way. How predictable. I guess we should execute every single person sent to an asylum. And older people as well.

Key word: WANT

I'm not talking about some deluded moral here. I'm talking about letting a consenting party do something they want to do.

[Zan15]

They're both facts. The number of deaths per each is the number of deaths per each. The rate of death per <whatever filter you want to put on it> is what it is. You're choosing to care about one statistic more than the other. That's it.

I am choosing the statistic that shows the actual death rate based on use/population which gives an indication of how dangerous the thing we are talking about is.

if you eat 600 million cheeseburgers and 10 people get sick and die, but 1 thousand onions and 8 people get sick and die which would you say is more dangerous?

in the case of something you don't have control over (people operating cars and people operating guns) you really would not want a 8/1000 rate over 10/600,000,000

[BeepBoo]

I am choosing the statistic that shows the actual death rate based on use/population which gives an indication of how dangerous the thing we are talking about is.

if you eat 600 million cheeseburgers and 10 people get sick and die, but 1 thousand onions and 8 people get sick and die which would you say is more dangerous?

in the case of something you don't have control over (people operating cars and people operating guns) you really would not want a 8/1000 rate over 10/600,000,000

You're doing mental gymnastics to develop your own stats, so I don't particularly care what your armchair rate is. You're comparing dissimilar things and trying to say "hurr durr one is more dangerous innantely!" Yeah, a gun is meant to kill. If used as intended, it is more dangerous than a car.

BUT it doesn't result in more deaths, because the rate at which it's used as intended is low. A thing that is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO KILL SHIT causes less deaths than something SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO NOT KILL SHIT.

Again, I don't care that a gun kills more than a car on a per-rate basis. It damn well better. I only care about idiots squawking about gun deaths like It's oh-so bad. Right up there with vehicle pollution and global warming. Nah. How about go after the big reasons that will actually make a difference in death. Oh, too hard? Not spooky enough to go after fat people who can't control their appetite? Ah. Guess just grasp for whatever you can. Nothx.

I'll accept the higher rate of deaths to keep an effective killing machine at my disposal for people who want to cause me harm.

Choose what you want. Guns cause less deaths than cars, period.

[Ghostpanther]

That's a good start. And why would you need magazine with more than 10 ammo ? Does that tax also apply to handgun clip ? If not, there is no issue here as a handgun is for protection, an assault rifle is not.

Any firearm is capable of "assaulting" someone. The AR-15 is a semi-auto rifle, which has a design making them easier to control for some. Which in turn, makes it a excellent self defense weapon at home using the right ammo. The handgun is much more practical for conceal/carry self protection.

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Well, to be honest, suicide by guns is easier than jumping from a cliff or hanging oneself. So, yes, having an easy access to guns do contribute to more suicides or suicide attempts.

Then be honest and admit a country can have a higher suicide rate which has much stricter gun control than another does. Japan versus the US is a perfect example.

[tylenol]

Any firearm is capable of "assaulting" someone. The AR-15 is a semi-auto rifle, which has a design making them easier to control for some. Which in turn, makes it a excellent self defense weapon at home using the right ammo. The handgun is much more practical for conceal/carry self protection.

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Then be honest and admit a country can have a higher suicide rate which has much stricter gun control than another does. Japan versus the US is a perfect example.

Make that comparison at the end of the year or next year because suicides in the US will certainly skyrocket pretty soon, just like all the foreclosures...

[BeepBoo]

Make that comparison at the end of the year or next year because suicides in the US will certainly skyrocket pretty soon, just like all the foreclosures...

But will it be due specifically to guns or will it be tied to a lot of other compounding factors that you'll conveniently ignore and say "look! guns went up and suicides with guns also went up! GUNS MUST BE THE CAUSE!" ?

[Ghostpanther]

Yep, ppl tend to not need to be shot 10 times to die in real life, espcially when most of the shots are coming from less than 10 meters as it is at that range that you would "defend youself" from an opponent.

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I was pretty sure you would respond in such a barbaric way. How predictable. I guess we should execute every single person sent to an asylum. And older people as well.

The problem with the 10 round magazine limit is, it will not stop a mass shooter from killing a lot of people, because magazines can be switched out fairly quickly. As the school shooter in Fla. proved. For his AR-15 he used, he carried 10 round magazines in his backpack, because they fit better than a higher capacity one would.

Na. BeepBoo is correct. If a person is desperate to end their life, they will find a way.

And another point to consider is this, which is back to the cost issue for freedoms....the amount of people who die from gun use each year, is about the same as auto accidents. But society is willing to accept the number of death's because of the freedom a vehicle can offer. Also most understand that if you live in a country with over 320 million people, the odds of you dying from ether ( guns or cars ), is so low, it is not a concern which keeps most people awake.

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Make that comparison at the end of the year or next year because suicides in the US will certainly skyrocket pretty soon, just like all the foreclosures...

Sadly, I also think they will increase. But until the statistics are released, we can only speculate at this point what the rate will be. And not all suicides are from using a firearm. I can think of better ways to do it.

[Zan15]

And another point to consider is this, which is back to the cost issue for freedoms....the amount of people who die from gun use each year, is about the same as auto accidents. But society is willing to accept the number of death's because of the freedom a vehicle can offer. Also most understand that if you live in a country with over 320 million people, the odds of you dying from ether ( guns or cars ), is so low, it is not a concern which keeps most people awake.
.

No they are willing to accept the numbers of deaths because of the huge economic benefit of vehicles. It did not stop them from regulating the hell out of vehicles and drivers. Society is willing to accept the loss for as bad as it is because they know that they are doing everything they can to make it as safe a possibly feasalbe and they continue to innovate to make cars safer every year.

can you say the same thing about guns, Nope.

Also most understand that if you live in a country with over 320 million people, the odds of you dying from ether ( guns or cars ), is so low, it is not a concern which keeps most people awake.
.

bullshit, show me the proof.

six in ten fear mass shootings
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-f...ry?id=65414785

gun violence now in top 5 voters issue
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...voters-in-2020

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But will it be due specifically to guns or will it be tied to a lot of other compounding factors that you'll conveniently ignore and say "look! guns went up and suicides with guns also went up! GUNS MUST BE THE CAUSE!" ?

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/3/944441...ngs-us-america

Its a simple fact. More guns equal more deaths
.
https://www.keranews.org/post/handgu...ajor-new-study

Researchers from Stanford University tracked more than 26 million people in California who did not own guns before Oct. 18, 2004. Just under 3%, or 676,425 people, became gun owners between Oct. 18, 2004, and Dec. 31, 2016. Nearly all were handguns. The risk of suicide in this group, researchers found, was about nine times higher than among non-gun owners. Nearly 18,000 people tracked in the study died by suicide. Roughly 7,000 of those deaths were by firearm suicide.




Also on top of all that, keep cheering about increased gun sales...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uninten...rus-lockdowns/

Deadly unintentional shootings by children increased 43 percent in March and April compared to average gun deaths during the same two months over the last three years, according to data analyzed by advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety. The "alarming uptick" coincided with the time span that gun sales were surging during coronavirus lockdowns.

[Specialka]

The problem with the 10 round magazine limit is, it will not stop a mass shooter from killing a lot of people, because magazines can be switched out fairly quickly. As the school shooter in Fla. proved. For his AR-15 he used, he carried 10 round magazines in his backpack, because they fit better than a higher capacity one would.

Na. BeepBoo is correct. If a person is desperate to end their life, they will find a way.

And another point to consider is this, which is back to the cost issue for freedoms....the amount of people who die from gun use each year, is about the same as auto accidents. But society is willing to accept the number of death's because of the freedom a vehicle can offer. Also most understand that if you live in a country with over 320 million people, the odds of you dying from ether ( guns or cars ), is so low, it is not a concern which keeps most people awake.

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Sadly, I also think they will increase. But until the statistics are released, we can only speculate at this point what the rate will be. And not all suicides are from using a firearm. I can think of better ways to do it.

The more you have to reload, the less effective you are. And in close quarter, a gun is more effective and practical than an assault rifle.

Seems to me you do not know a lot about gun, apart what you saw on TV.

And a psychiatrist would disagree with you. If you make suicide harder, some will reconsider it. Again, looks to me that you do not know what you are talking about.

[Eviscero]

Is ghostpabther prepared to use his second amendment right to defend Trump, if and when he refuses to leave office?

Are others prepared to use that right to ensure the transition of power, peaceful or not?

[Ghostpanther]

The more you have to reload, the less effective you are. And in close quarter, a gun is more effective and practical than an assault rifle.

Seems to me you do not know a lot about gun, apart what you saw on TV.

And a psychiatrist would disagree with you. If you make suicide harder, some will reconsider it. Again, looks to me that you do not know what you are talking about.

Does not take long at all to switch out magazines. With some practice, only a couple seconds. A handgun is more usuable in some situations and and less clumbbernersom in small spaces. But there is enough room inside most homes for a rifle to work well. I mean, you do see the swat teams and officers using rifles when they enter a home fairly often.

I was combat trained in the Army, served 3 years and trained on a wide variety of weapons. What is your experience?

I disagree with some psychiatrists. So that remark does not impress me. And now it looks like to me, you have run out of counter arguments and have switched gears to more personal attacks.

2 second magazine change....



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Is ghostpabther prepared to use his second amendment right to defend Trump, if and when he refuses to leave office?

Are others prepared to use that right to ensure the transition of power, peaceful or not?

That is not going to happen and no, I am not in any organized militia. The US military has taken oaths to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

My personal extent will be to protect myself and loved ones with firearms, which is exercising a Constitutional right.

[Specialka]

Does not take long at all to switch out magazines. With some practice, only a couple seconds. A handgun is more usuable in some situations and and less clumbbernersom in small spaces. But there is enough room inside most homes for a rifle to work well. I mean, you do see the swat teams and officers using rifles when they enter a home fairly often.

I was combat trained in the Army, served 3 years and trained on a wide variety of weapons. What is your experience?

I disagree with some psychiatrists. So that remark does not impress me. And now it looks like to me, you have run out of counter arguments and have switched gears to more personal attacks.

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That is not going to happen and no, I am not in any militia. I will protect myself and loved ones with firearms, which is exercising a Constitutional right.

Most tactical teams would use submachines guns for close quarters rather than assault rifles.

And again, you prove my point. You are more effective at killing if you do not need to reload, no need to argue about that.

You disregard everything that does not fit you. That tends to iritate a lot but at least, we can see that you are not someone interesting to talk to as we can't have a proper discussion.

You even prove my point with your video. YOU NEED TRAINING TO ACHIEVE THAT, dummy. Most mass murderers do not have any.