Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Ghostpanther]

Maybe, but that is a strawman .

Was it armed legally before the shooting started ? Maybe if it was not so easy to get a gun, there would be no shooting at all ?

It isn't a strawman. It is a fact.

It does not really matter. I would say, the odds are pretty damn high, he did not have a carry conceal permit. Criminals don't care about the laws. In Indiana, you can not open or conceal carry a handgun without a license. And you can not get one if you have a felon record.

And we have already gone over the fact, that guns are not going away, no matter how much some want them to. I wish we did not need them also. But the fact remains, evil exists. Even in France.

[Specialka]

It isn't a strawman. It is a fact.

It does not really matter. I would say, the odds are pretty damn high, he did not have a carry conceal permit. Criminals don't care about the laws. In Indiana, you can not open or conceal carry a handgun without a license. And you can not get one if you have a felon record.

And we have already gone over the fact, that guns are not going away, no matter how much some want them to. I wish we did not need them also. But the fact remains, evil exists. Even in France.

It seems, according to USA laws, that you become a felon only after you are convicted of felony. Thus, at the time of the shooting, he was not.

And I think Foxnews, which is totally not a trustworthy news channel, would have mentioned if he was illegally armed since they are, you know, kinda totally biaised especially on the subject.

Evil does exist, as per your term, but easy access to guns (and whatever you think, the legal access to a gun in the USA is easy) tends to bring a lot of evil on top of the already existing evil.

[Mayhem]

Interesting as they do not say if Hayes was legally armed or not. How curious

What's even more curious is how did the good samaritan know that Hayes wasn't acting in self-defense or chasing a criminal?

[the game]

You have the right attitude. And welcome back.

Thanks. I'm not a new owner. Just very rusty. I signed up for a concealed carry course next saturday

[Ghostpanther]

It seems, according to USA laws, that you become a felon only after you are convicted of felony. Thus, at the time of the shooting, he was not.

And I think Foxnews, which is totally not a trustworthy news channel, would have mentioned if he was illegally armed since they are, you know, kinda totally biaised especially on the subject.

Evil does exist, as per your term, but easy access to guns (and whatever you think, the legal access to a gun in the USA is easy) tends to bring a lot of evil on top of the already existing evil.

Yeah, he committed a felon by using a firearm illegally.

I do not care about your opinion of Fox News.

A Constitutional right should never be hard to exercise.

[Specialka]

Yeah, he committed a felon by using a firearm illegally.

I do not care about your opinion of Fox News.

A Constitutional right should never be hard to exercise.

So he was armed legally before trying to shoot people or not ? And you are not the one deciding who is a felon and who is not. A judge is the one that gets to decide.

[Ghostpanther]

Thanks. I'm not a new owner. Just very rusty. I signed up for a concealed carry course next saturday

It's a good class you take in Ohio. The live fire session, you are not judged on accuracy. It is mainly for the instructor to point out to the shooter, safe and proper operation of a firearm.
My class, most of the time was about the lawful applications and responsibilities with carrying a firearm in Ohio.

I really think it would be good to require all new gun purchase owners, to attend such a class if they haven't already. Give them a certification after they do, which they can use when they purchase any future firearms.

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So he was armed legally before trying to shoot people or not ? And you are not the one deciding who is a felon and who is not. A judge is the one that gets to decide.

I do not know. Or do you. The majority of the time, when a shooter commits a crime with a firearm, they did not possess the firearm legally.

The law is pretty clear on what is a felon.

[Specialka]

It's a good class you take in Ohio. The live fire session, you are not judged on accuracy. It is mainly for the instructor to point out to the shooter, safe and proper operation of a firearm.
My class, most of the time was about the lawful applications and responsibilities with carrying a firearm in Ohio.

I really think it would be good to require all new gun purchase owners, to attend such a class if they haven't already. Give them a certification after they do, which they can use when they purchase any future firearms.

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I do not know. Or do you. The majority of the time, when a shooter commits a crime with a firearm, they did not possess the firearm legally.

The law is pretty clear on what is a felon.

Yes, but I asked for this time. And knowing Foxnews, they would have mentioned if he was illegally armed.

And the law is pretty clear. To be a felon, you have to be convicted for felony which happen in court, not in the middle of a street.

[Shadowferal]

And the law is pretty clear. To be a felon, you have to be convicted for felony which happen in court, not in the middle of a street.

That's like saying "no laws are broken if you don't get caught."

[lockedout]

So he was armed legally before trying to shoot people or not ? And you are not the one deciding who is a felon and who is not. A judge is the one that gets to decide.

Gonna go out on a limb and say no.

[Specialka]

That's like saying "no laws are broken if you don't get caught."

So if someone says something against you about a possible felony you would have done but without evidence, you are ok for being sent to jail while waiting for the court to rule your case ?

[Shadowferal]

So if someone says something against you about a possible felony you would have done but without evidence, you are ok for being sent to jail while waiting for the court to rule your case ?

Not the point.

[Specialka]

Not the point.

About on the point as your intervention earlier.

[Ghostpanther]

Yes, but I asked for this time. And knowing Foxnews, they would have mentioned if he was illegally armed.

And the law is pretty clear. To be a felon, you have to be convicted for felony which happen in court, not in the middle of a street.

You are guessing again.

You will be convicted of committing a felon based on the moment you committed the crime. And he was deemed a threat and thus, was shot dead at the moment. Which will certainly be ruled justified under those circumstances.

This sort of goes back to your one question you had in a previous post. " Are there examples of a private citizen, legally armed, who stops a crime from being committed? ", something in that order. There are a lot them. This example is a very recent one.

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So if someone says something against you about a possible felony you would have done but without evidence, you are ok for being sent to jail while waiting for the court to rule your case ?

It happens all the time. You can be held in jail, with no bail, for a suspected crime until you are tried by the court. I am ok with that if the degree of the crime and the chance the suspect will flee, is warranted.

[Specialka]

You are guessing again.

You will be convicted of committing a felon based on the moment you committed the crime. And he was deemed a threat and thus, was shot dead at the moment. Which will certainly be ruled justified under those circumstances.

This sort of goes back to your one question you had in a previous post. " Are there examples of a private citizen, legally armed, who stops a crime from being committed? ", something in that order. There are a lot them. This example is a very recent one.

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And I asked if Hayes was legally armed or not. And I am guessing what ? That Foxnews is not a trustworthy channel ?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fo...ows-2018-04-09

Or maybe guessing that you become a felon when you are convicted as such when it is written in USA law ?

It happens all the time. You can be held in jail, with no bail, for a suspected crime until you are tried by the court. I am ok with that if the degree of the crime and the chance the suspect will flee, is warranted.

So whatever the accusation, like someone accusing you of rape but without proof/evidence and even having an alibi, you would be ok to be sent to jail ?

[Ghostpanther]

And I asked if Hayes was legally armed or not. And I am guessing what ? That Foxnews is not a trustworthy channel ?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fo...ows-2018-04-09

Or maybe guessing that you become a felon when you are convicted as such when it is written in USA law ?



So whatever the accusation, like someone accusing you of rape but without proof/evidence and even having an alibi, you would be ok to be sent to jail ?

Two can play your blame game.....https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...ed-news-brands

The law states once you commit a crime which is a felon, you are convicted of committing it on that day and time, if it is proven you did. Someone shoots a unarmed person who is not threatening them with clear dangerous bodily harm?, they have committed a felon.

Depends on the degree of the crime. It is up to the Judge to set bail or deny bail. or let them go home under house arrest. Or if the case has enough reasonable evidence to warrant such.

Here is the story from another news source....https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...by/ar-BB16OL2p

Note: they also do not say if the dead criminal, was legally armed or not.

[Specialka]

Two can play your blame game.....https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...ed-news-brands

The law states once you commit a crime which is a felon, you are convicted of committing it on that day and time, if it is proven you did. Someone shoots a unarmed person who is not threatening them with clear dangerous bodily harm?, they have committed a felon.

Depends on the degree of the crime. It is up to the Judge to set bail or deny bail. or let them go home under house arrest. Or if the case has enough reasonable evidence to warrant such.

Here is the story from another news source....https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...by/ar-BB16OL2p

Note: they also do not say if the dead criminal, was legally armed or not.

The joke is that on my link, it is an own Fox News graphics that say most ppl do not trust them xD.

And again, you can be charged with felony, but the judge and only him will convict you of felony. Until that, you are just charged.

As a bonus : https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ho...article_inline

[Shadowferal]

About on the point as your intervention earlier.

No.
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, did it make any noise?
I should hope your response would be "yes, it made noise."
Whether anyone was there isn't relevant.

[Specialka]

No.
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, did it make any noise?
I should hope your response would be "yes, it made noise."
Whether anyone was there isn't relevant.

Yes, but that is not relevant to the point being discussed. Thank you for coming by.

[Svifnymr]

Then why are you shooting at them? If you don’t want them dead, for any reason, why in the hell would you shoot at them? Even if the reason is you want to defend life/lives and/or your property, it’s still a reason you want them dead. You may not be happy about it, but there are plenty of things we want in life that we want for reasons other than happiness.

Not sure how many pages it needs to go before you acknowledge that "wand them dead" is your own projection? "Willing to kill" is not "Want to kill", let alone "don't care if they die, so long as the threat is stopped". Why are you projecting your feelings onto everyone?

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What's even more curious is how did the good samaritan know that Hayes wasn't acting in self-defense or chasing a criminal?

You missed the part where the defensive shooter was victim3 and was shot in his car?