Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Tinykong]

There are many ways that someone can defend themselves.

If you're going to defend yourself in the most egregious and permanent way, there should be extra care and thought that goes into that decision.

How exactly do I defend myself against a 6' 220lb male attacker? Oh, right, I'm a Navy SEAL I can just Austin Powers JUDOCHOP him in the neck and wait for the police to arrive.

Well sure, but people that are just trying to steal a TV shouldn't be shot to death. That punishment clearly doesn't fit the crime.

Many states disagree with your opinion. Breaking into a home is a forcible felony in a lot of states.

[TZucchini]

How exactly do I defend myself against a 6' 220lb male attacker? Oh, right, I'm a Navy SEAL I can just Austin Powers JUDOCHOP him in the neck and wait for the police to arrive.

Oh, right. I forgot that all robbers are extremely strong and physically fit men with boxing titles. And their victims are all grandmothers.

Many states disagree with your opinion. Breaking into a home is a forcible felony in a lot of states.

Which states?

I'm pretty sure a forcible felony requires that force is being used against someone. Not something. Stealing a television is not in any way a justification for homicide.

[Mayhem]

How exactly do I defend myself against a 6' 220lb male attacker? Oh, right, I'm a Navy SEAL I can just Austin Powers JUDOCHOP him in the neck and wait for the police to arrive.

so every burgler in the US is 6' 220lb male? well i guess they´re easy to spot then

[Tinykong]

Oh, right. I forgot that all robbers are extremely strong and physically fit men with boxing titles. And their victims are all grandmothers.

Home invasion perpetrators are typically males under age 30. Please, continue to engage the hyperbole drive, it's so helpful.

Which states?

Off the top of my head, Florida and Illinois. There are others.

I'm pretty sure a forcible felony requires that force is being used against someone. Not something. Stealing a television is not in any way a justification for homicide.

Except we're not talking about stealing a TV. We're talking about stealing a TV...while committing a home invasion.

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so every burgler in the US is 6' 220lb male? well i guess they´re easy to spot then

Is making up polarized hyperbolic nonsense all you've got?

[Ghostpanther]

But, according to you, an intruder entering the home unlawfully is automatic "reasonable fear". The evidence could be no other way. It's not an accurate statement, which is why you still haven't found the exact language backing it up.

It is there and I have given you links which show cases that back up my point. You just refuse to accept it. You cannot link to me a single case here in Ohio which would refute my statement.

[Rukentuts]

Oh, right. I forgot that all robbers are extremely strong and physically fit men with boxing titles. And their victims are all grandmothers.

And there's no protection but a gun. What a lazy appeal to ignorance that was.

[Tinykong]

And there's no protection but a gun. What a lazy appeal to ignorance that was.

Owning a gun makes me less safe right? I can't remember, the post was deleted.

[Ghostpanther]

Stealing a television is not in any way a justification for homicide.

You are forgetting a homeowner may not know that is the case and may not have the luxury of time to find out. Your life could end in a couple seconds.

[Tinykong]

You are forgetting a homeowner may not know that is the case and he does not have the luxury of time to find out.

You're forgetting that gun grabbers think you should ask a home invader what they are doing and let them explain before you kill them. They're probably just confused and didn't realize they went into the wrong house.

Happens to me all the time, I wind up in my neighbors house and try to move the TV because I have it on the other wall and someone must have moved it.

[Deleted]

I mean ok good for you if you feel more safe with a gun on an individual level but does it make sense as a society?

More incencitive for petty thiefes to come armed
More guns to get into the wrong hands

It makes no sense from a security aspect to weaken the monopoly of force the state has.

[TZucchini]

Home invasion perpetrators are typically males under age 30. Please, continue to engage the hyperbole drive, it's so helpful.

That's not what you said. You referenced their height, weight, and sex. Now you're just referencing their age and sex? Seems like you're moving those goal posts.

And on the subject of burglary statistics: Only 7% of burglaries result in violence. And of those, 65% of the offenders were known to the victim.

Off the top of my head, Florida and Illinois. There are others.

OK, great. So the majority of States agree with me.

Except we're not talking about stealing a TV. We're talking about stealing a TV...while committing a home invasion.

Home invasion is different than burglary. A home invasion involves physical or threatened violence toward the homeowner. A burglary does not.

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You are forgetting a homeowner may not know that is the case and may not have the luxury of time to find out. Your life could end in a couple seconds.

If you can't handle the responsibility of owning a firearm, don't buy one. But realize that stealing a TV is not in any way justification for homicide.

[Deleted]

Home invasion is different than burglary. A home invasion involves physical or threatened violence toward the homeowner. A burglary does not.

So your point is? Should homeowners first chat with the person who unlawfully entered their residence to determine whether he is commting burglary or home invasion?

[Deleted]

I mean ok good for you if you feel more safe with a gun on an individual level but does it make sense a society?

More incencitive for petty thiefes to come armed
More guns to get into the wrong hands

It makes no sense from a security aspect to weaken the monopoly of force the state has.

Actually, I think gun owners on average prefer the state not to have a monopoly force, something to do with communism/dictatorship

[Canpinter]

ok im going to list a few gun control measures that i think are rather basic tell me if you have issues with these.

stricter penaltys for illegal possession of a firearm
mandatory background checks for all gun sales even private ones
stricter laws concerning straw buyers

[Deleted]

So your point is? Should homeowners first chat with the person who unlawfully entered their residence to determine whether he is commting burglary or home invasion?

Your point is? You should just shoot anyone entering your house?

[Deleted]

So your point is? Should homeowners first chat with the person who unlawfully entered their residence to determine whether he is commting burglary or home invasion?

If its just a TV dont endanger yourself for it. Why would you?

ok im going to list a few gun control measures that i think are rather basic tell me if you have issues with these.

stricter penaltys for illegal possession of a firearm
mandatory background checks for all gun sales even private ones
stricter laws concerning straw buyers

Buyback of illegal firearms after enforcing strict controls.

[Tinykong]

That's not what you said. You referenced their height, weight, and sex. Now you're just referencing their age and sex? Seems like you're moving those goal posts.

And on the subject of burglary statistics: Only 7% of burglaries result in violence. And of those, 65% of the offenders were known to the victim.

I made up a hypothetical burglar, you started flailing around with the "every robber is Mike Tyson" nonsense. Most robberies are perpetrated by males under age 30. My hypothetical example is reasonable and prudent.

OK, great. So the majority of States agree with me.

Nope.

Breaking into a home is a felony in every US state. It's forcible in some. A home owner is justified in killing someone committing a crime of violence in their home in more states than not.

Home invasion is different than burglary. A home invasion involves physical or threatened violence toward the homeowner. A burglary does not.

That's not true. A home invasion is unlawful forcible entry into a dwelling with intent to commit a misdemeanor. Breaking into my home to steal my TV is a home invasion in my state, feel free to go look it up for others.

[TZucchini]

So your point is? Should homeowners first chat with the person who unlawfully entered their residence to determine whether he is commting burglary or home invasion?

No, they should just shoot them right away. What could possibly go wrong?

[Tinykong]

No, they should just shoot them right away. What could possibly go wrong?

There is a difference between:

Shooting a shadowy figure in the dark

and

Shooting a known home invader

You're taking it one step further, demanding that people discern the intentions of said home invader prior to engaging them. I mean, considering your penchant for fantasy about how easy it is to just punch someone's lights out, I guess it's not beyond you to expect people to have omnipresence, as well.

[TZucchini]

I made up a hypothetical burglar, you started flailing around with the "every robber is Mike Tyson" nonsense. Most robberies are perpetrated by males under age 30. My hypothetical example is reasonable and prudent.

Reasonable and prudent? So are most males under the age of 30 six foot tall, 220 lbs? Your example was ridiculous.

That's not true. A home invasion is unlawful forcible entry into a dwelling with intent to commit a misdemeanor. Breaking into my home to steal my TV is a home invasion in my state, feel free to go look it up for others.

There is no federal definition. And according to wiki "Home invasion differs from burglary in that its perpetrators have a violent intent apart from the unlawful entry itself, specific or general, much the same way as aggravated robbery—personally taking from someone by force—is differentiated from mere larceny (theft alone)."