Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Deleted]

No, they should just shoot them right away. What could possibly go wrong?

Not the kind of link you should post when youre claiming that stealing a tv is not in any way a justification for homicide. And yes seeing the laws of colorado described in the link it seems totally justified to shoot right away.

[vaeevictiss]

If its just a TV dont endanger yourself for it. Why would you?


Buyback of illegal firearms after enforcing strict controls.

No such thing as an illegal firearm. Only illegal possession of said firearm.

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Reasonable and prudent? So are most males under the age of 30 six foot tall, 220 lbs? Your example was ridiculous.



There is no federal definition. And according to wiki "Home invasion differs from burglary in that its perpetrators have a violent intent apart from the unlawful entry itself, specific or general, much the same way as aggravated robbery—personally taking from someone by force—is differentiated from mere larceny (theft alone)."

your strawmen are ridiculous

[TZucchini]

There is a difference between:

Shooting a shadowy figure in the dark

and

Shooting a known home invader

But how am I supposed to know if the shadowy figure is a known home invader? Am I supposed to just ask them? I may "not have the luxury of time to find out. Your life could end in a couple seconds."

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your strawmen are ridiculous

Do you even know what a Straw Man argument is? I haven't misrepresented anything. I'm using his exact words.

[Tinykong]

Reasonable and prudent? So are most males under the age of 30 six foot tall, 220 lbs? Your example was ridiculous.

Oh, and your suggestion that all home invasion victims are grand mothers wasn't?

There is no federal definition. And according to wiki "Home invasion differs from burglary in that its perpetrators have a violent intent apart from the unlawful entry itself, specific or general, much the same way as aggravated robbery—personally taking from someone by force—is differentiated from mere larceny (theft alone)."

Who said anything about a Federal definition?

In Michigan, if you unlawfully enter into a dwelling with a weapon or while it is occupied you have committed a home invasion.

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But how am I supposed to know if the shadowy figure is a known home invader? Am I supposed to just ask them? I may "not have the luxury of time to find out. Your life could end in a couple seconds."

Turn on the light?

Oh, I forgot, you're making up the position for us that we're demanding the authority to shoot anyone, anywhere for any reason.

[vaeevictiss]

But how am I supposed to know if the shadowy figure is a known home invader? Am I supposed to just ask them? I may "not have the luxury of time to find out. Your life could end in a couple seconds."

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Do you even know what a Straw Man argument is? I haven't misrepresented anything. I'm using his exact words.

his exact words were not "all burglars are 6 foot whatever and 220" like you keep twisting it to sound like thats what he said.

[Deleted]

No such thing as an illegal firearm. Only illegal possession of said firearm.

The firearms cant get really offended unlike when you call humans illegal.

[TZucchini]

Oh, and your suggestion that all home invasion victims are grand mothers wasn't?

If my suggestion was serious, and not said in a manner that mocked gunners, then yes, it would have been ridiculous.

Who said anything about a Federal definition?

In Michigan, if you unlawfully enter into a dwelling with a weapon or while it is occupied you have committed a home invasion.

That's fantastic. Definitions aside, the original point stands. If someone breaks into your house to steal a television, with no violent intention, then homicide is an unfair and unreasonable punishment.

It also just so happens that the vast majority of robberies fit this profile.

Turn on the light?

I don't have the luxury of time to turn on the light. My life could be over in a matter of seconds.

[Deleted]

Do you have a data if most of them are commited alone or with partners?

I mean killing one of for no reason at all when he might not be alone might unecessary endager yourself.

http://www.urbachletter.com/Archive/...Prevention.htm
This one is a funny read.

Most burglars ring the door according to him.

[Deleted]

That's fantastic. Definitions aside, the original point stands. If someone breaks into your house to steal a television, with no violent intention, then homicide is an unfair and unreasonable punishment.

After what definition? Certainly not under the laws of colorado like your link provided.

[lockedout]

no, we can´t, the mere presence of an intruder in my house is not even close to waking up to a bunch of people in my bedroom

That would constitute a person or people in your house. Do you think a burglar would say "I'm not going in the bedroom because THAT would make the homeowner fear for his life, I'll just go into every other room."

An intruder in your house is the EXACT same thing as waking up to someone in your bedroom.

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That's fantastic. Definitions aside, the original point stands. If someone breaks into your house to steal a television, with no violent intention, then homicide is an unfair and unreasonable punishment.

So you know that person is only there for a TV? Sorry if your in my house you're a threat and will be treated as such.

[Tinykong]

If my suggestion was serious, and not said in a manner that mocked gunners, then yes, it would have been ridiculous.

The burglar I suggested could exist. Do you generally assess risk based on the best possible scenario, or the worst? I'd certainly rather be prepared for the worst than be unable to respond, no matter what the situation.

The only ridiculous thing here is you suggesting only grandmother's get robbed. That's not something I've ever said, and it's pathetic to use it as if I had. The burglar I described is reasonable to exist.

That's fantastic. Definitions aside, the original point stands. If someone breaks into your house to steal a television, with no violent intention, then homicide is an unfair and unreasonable punishment.

It also just so happens that the vast majority of robberies fit this profile.

In 46 states, it is. Feel free to disagree, but, you are in the minority.

I don't have the luxury of time to turn on the light. My life could be over in a matter of seconds.

Let's not spew gun nut rhetoric as a snide retort.

[TZucchini]

So you know that person is only there for a TV? Sorry if your in my house you're a threat and will be treated as such.

If you want to escalate the situation, that's your prerogative.

[lockedout]

If you want to escalate the situation, that's your prerogative.

Situation got escalated when someone broke into my house.

[Mayhem]

Is making up polarized hyperbolic nonsense all you've got?

you take it pretty well being called out on your bullshit, but hey that´s not the first time today, lets go for the treble

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You are forgetting a homeowner may not know that is the case and may not have the luxury of time to find out. Your life could end in a couple seconds.

do we really have to go through evey possible scenario? who here is denying that there are specific situations where use of gun is indeed the only choice you´ve got?

[rhandric]

If you want to escalate the situation, that's your prerogative.

It's simple: you choose to commit a crime (breaking into my house), and I choose to, within reason, stop you. If that means you end up dead as a result, it's your own fault.

[Mayhem]

That would constitute a person or people in your house. Do you think a burglar would say "I'm not going in the bedroom because THAT would make the homeowner fear for his life, I'll just go into every other room."

An intruder in your house is the EXACT same thing as waking up to someone in your bedroom.

right, no difference at all, an in truder in my house gives me the exact same time to react and think about my possibilities as one in my bedroom, sure

[Ghostpanther]

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do we really have to go through evey possible scenario? who here is denying that there are specific situations where use of gun is indeed the only choice you´ve got?

As far as I am concerned, only one. You break into my home and you have maybe 2 seconds to flee or get down on your knees and raise your hands in surrender or get shot if I am awake and have my gun in my hand. And I am more than confident in my state I would be justified in doing so.

[tigojones]

Prohibit civilian firearms ownership to curb gun crime? How could it fail? I mean, look at how well it worked for alcohol and drugs! Nobody drinks, or smokes weed, anymore, and the only Coke available these days is brown, sugary, carbonated and comes in bottles and cans.

[Tinykong]

you take it pretty well being called out on your bullshit, but hey that´s not the first time today, lets go for the treble

How is suggesting a home invasion could be committed by a 6' 220lb criminal "bullshit," exactly?

[Thandrend]

As far as I am concerned, only one. You break into my home and you have maybe 2 seconds to flee or get down on your knees and raise your hands in surrender or get shot if I am awake and have my gun in my hand. And I am more than confident in my state I would be justified in doing so.

I just don't know what PRE 9-11 doesn't understand about this. He must not have kids or a loved one at home with him.

I repeat--If you enter my home, without my permission, you will die--It really is that simple. Not sure why people think it is unreasonable for people to defend what is their possession.