Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Rukentuts]

It has very little, however, to do with people dying, which was your claim.

Really? Quote where I said it was with people dying.

Or just keep failing at reading.

[Tinykong]

Really? Quote where I said it was with people dying.

Vagaries are the cornerstone of the gun grabbing movement. Probably why they can't seem to get anything done.

[Rukentuts]

Vagaries are the cornerstone of the gun grabbing movement.

Didn't know you were a gun grabber.

"Quote me" is a favorite of yours.

[PhaelixWW]

Sorry I don't indulged his continued failure to read.

I point out that you're changing your story and your rebuttal is that I failed to read. Yeah, nice comeback.

And studies conclude that at least half are crimes.

One study stated that of a selection of self-reported cases, a few judges thought half might be crimes (which doesn't necessarily mean they weren't legitimate defensive uses, as well), but the study warned against drawing population-based conclusions, which you've done every single time you reference the study... like you just did now.

We don't need to nitpick it. The study itself says not to do what you're doing.

[Mahourai]

And studies conclude that at least half are crimes. But that was nitpicked by armchair experts that think they know better.

How heavy are those goalposts?

And since we're comparing all uses, cite all crimes in which a firearm was used; for proper comparison. Not just homicides.

Sure thing. "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals."

[Rukentuts]

I point out that you're changing your story and your rebuttal is that I failed to read. Yeah, nice comeback.

Nice quote. Oh wait, you don't have one.

One study stated that of a selection of self-reported cases, a few judges thought half might be crimes (which doesn't necessarily mean they weren't legitimate defensive uses, as well), but the study warned against drawing population-based conclusions, which you've done every single time you reference the study... like you just did now.

We don't need to nitpick it. The study itself says not to do what you're doing.

"Nitpicking by armchair experts" predicted.

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How heavy are those goalposts?

Sorry that debunks that claim.

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Sure thing. "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals."

And studies have shown that about half of those "defensive uses" were crimes that were never charged.

Your myth of gun defense is an ignorant fantasy.

No wonder gun ownership has an inverse correlation with education.

[PhaelixWW]

Really? Quote where I said it was with people dying.

Erm...

Yeah that's why I said it was about people dying.

This?

[Rukentuts]

Erm...

This?

Sarcasm is hard. You know, with the italics and all.

[Mahourai]

Sorry that debunks that claim.

You didn't debunk anything. You changed the premises of your claim.

And studies have shown that about half of those "defensive uses" were crimes that were never charged.

No, they don't. You just cry whenever anyone explains what the data means.

[Rukentuts]

You didn't debunk anything. You changed the premises of your claim.

No, it showed yours wasn't based in reality.

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No, they don't. You just cry whenever anyone explains what the data means.

It has been linked multiple times now. Move along.

[Tinykong]

Didn't know you were a gun grabber.

"Quote me" is a favorite of yours.

Because pointing out someone is flagrantly making shit up (which is quite often in this thread) is the same thing as being deliberately vague so you can't be refuted.

[Mahourai]

No, it showed yours wasn't based in reality.

Your claim, "far more people die by a gun than are ever saved by one." is false. Whether people saved their own lives by committing a crime is a separate claim entirely.

[Rukentuts]

Your claim, "far more people die by a gun than are ever saved by one." is false.

No matter how many times you state this bullshit that we have already proven is false, doesn't make it less bullshit.

That guy trying to stop the Tea Partiers in LV is a perfect example of the futility.

[Mahourai]

You didn't even claim it was false. You stated "studies conclude that at least half are crimes", which is emphatically not a defense of your initial assertion, merely a separate claim that some defensive gun uses (which you previous claimed didn't exist) are invalid. However, again, that doesn't make your initial assertion true.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They go hand in hand. Remove the need for gangs while removing the gangs themselves and legalize drugs. Instead of giving away billions to places like Israel help our own people.

Legalizing all drugs isn't necessarily a good idea.

[Mahourai]

Legalizing all drugs isn't necessarily a good idea.

It isn't "necessarily" a good idea, it just is one.

[PhaelixWW]

"Nitpicking by armchair experts" predicted.

Like I said, I don't need to nitpick, because it's specifically stated in the conclusion of the study. You just fail at reading it, apparently.

Your myth of gun defense is an ignorant fantasy.

That "myth of gun defense" you just tried to ignore comes from the CDC study done in the aftermath of Newtown, at the request of President Obama.

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year...

Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was "used" by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self protective strategies.

So I guess the CDC and the President are duped by this "myth", huh?

[Rukentuts]

Like I said, I don't need to nitpick, because it's specifically stated in the conclusion of the study. You just fail at reading it, apparently.

You mean the conclusion that stated they were extremely confident in their findings? Another failure at reading. Damn.

The fact that people that can't read are deemed fit to bear deadly weapons is the epitome of everything that's wrong with this country.

That "myth of gun defense" you just tried to ignore comes from the CDC study done in the aftermath of Newtown, at the request of President Obama.

So I guess the CDC and the President are duped by this "myth", huh?

Now link me where they took into account the legality of these "uses".

Maybe while you're at it you can tell me why the NRA is moving to quash further study on gun crime.

[PhaelixWW]

Sarcasm is hard. You know, with the italics and all.

So it was sarcasm? Then you have no explanation for why you followed (and quoted) a statement about people dying with a statement about errant gunfire in "redneckia"?

I mean, that's the natural interpretation of your quote, if one assumes that you use common sense at all.

[Rukentuts]

So it was sarcasm?

Yes. I tend to use italics to emphasize it.