Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No, implying that when the left get going, it is all "it's my [I]God given right to own these weapons" etc.

It should be for the government (voted for by the people) to decide the restrictions. An argument against restrictions that starts with "well, this will only save 11,000 lives a year" doesn't hold much weight with me I'm afraid. If the pro-gun side could come up with a decent, fair compromise I would guess most of the US public would back them. The issue is all they do is cry about being victimised because "a few thousand people are murdered each year, what about a mah ritez?".

I agree, an "assault weapons" ban will do little to reduce gun related homicide in the USA, however tighter restrictions on all guns - such as the executive actions (is that the right wording?) from President Obama will help in the long run. It is a culture thing (I would go as far to say it is similar to an addiction) because as a nation you refuse to accept you have an issue. That is the first step on the road to recovery, but you guys have to admit it first!

Oh, so if its not God, its the choice of the people. Good thing our representatives do vote on these things, and it was denied.

[Deleted]

Oh, so if its not God, its the choice of the people. Good thing our representatives do vote on these things, and it was denied.

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at? My original post was not in reply to you, yet you seem to have taken offence and are now intentially trying to argue with me? Can you point out exactly what I posted that pissed you off so much so I can perhaps apologise and help you get the fuck over it?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at? My original post was not in reply to you, yet you seem to have taken offence and are now intentially trying to argue with me? Can you point out exactly what I posted that pissed you off so much so I can perhaps apologise and help you get the fuck over it?

I'm not upset, just responding to your condescension.

[Deleted]

I'm not upset, just responding to your condescension.

Here, I'll quote what I posted again:

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at? My original post was not in reply to you, yet you seem to have taken offence and are now intentially trying to argue with me? Can you point out exactly what I posted that pissed you off so much so I can perhaps apologise and help you get the fuck over it?

Are you are saying my comment regarding the USA being a special snowflake because "God gave them the right to own a gun" is a condescension? You posted this:

Implying that only God can decide who can own which guns, or what restrictions can be put on gun ownership?

Where did I say that? I didn't post that to get your panties in a twist, it had a hint of sarcasm in it. I litterally have no idea what you are bitching about...

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Here, I'll quote what I posted again:

Are you are saying my comment regarding the USA being a special snowflake because "God gave them the right to own a gun" is a condescension? You posted this:

Where did I say that? I didn't post that to get your panties in a twist, it had a hint of sarcasm in it. I litterally have no idea what you are bitching about...

Lol, okay tough guy, pump the brakes. Yes, thats being condescending.

[Deleted]

Lol, okay tough guy, pump the brakes. Yes, thats being condescending.

So, I am right in saying you are calling me a tough guy for saying you want an argument and are prepared to make no fucking sense whatsoever in getting said argument?

Righto... thanks for clearing that up. 10/10 would come again...

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

So, I am right in saying you are calling me a tough guy for saying you want an argument and are prepared to make no fucking sense whatsoever in getting said argument?

Righto... thanks for clearing that up. 10/10 would come again...

I'm calling you a tough guy because you are pretending to be one. Your condescension is very unwarranted, and non-sense.

[Koraak]

Hey your pres says we need to stop all these senseless killings. When a hammer kills more people than an assault rifle I only see one solution. BAN THEM. That's there solution for guns so it will work for that to. I'm sure they will be nice and leave maybe one or two kinds that you can keep to make carpenters happy.

Actually, I linked the numbers around page 425 or so, but between 2000 and 2008, knives accounted for 13% of homicides, non-specified non-gun weapons accounted for 6%, and blunt objects for 4%. Rifles (not just assault, but all variants) accounted for 3%. So if we classify a hammer as a blunt object, then yes, hammers do actually kill more people than assault rifles.

[Deleted]

I'm calling you a tough guy because you are pretending to be one. Your condescension is very unwarranted, and non-sense.

Look, I replied to a post mocking the UK because apparently we gave up our rights to own guns and were pissed about it. The guy I was replying to was being condecending so I replied in kind. You seem to have taken offense to this, despite the fact my post did not concern you at all.

What I need you to do is point out where I am pretending to be tough? Where have I acted as such? If you can point this out (and swearing is not acting tough) I would be suprised, because all I have done is defended myself by calling you out.

Here's an idea that should help the thread - Look at what I posted (not the comment you found so grosely offensive, that wasn't directed at you, and lets be honest, didn't even warrant a response from you) and discuss the merits of that. Try not to take everything posted as a personal slight against you, get over yourself, and we may get a grownup debate going again rather than you bitching about something that isn't there.

[Deleted]

...if you see how many "accidents" happen in the states with assault weapons compared to Europe or other countries where they are banned....

[Koraak]

...if you see how many "accidents" happen in the states with assault weapons compared to Europe or other countries where they are banned....

I don't know much about the country, so don't quote me on this, but what I've gathered by reading various forums, is that this argument doesn't work when countries like Sweden allow gun ownership but have relatively low accidents and gun violence.

[GreatOak]

I think it's blatantly obvious and you're confusticating it to make a nonsense point; a gun is for shooting bullets at high speed that should kill and a hammer is for nails.

According to merriam-webster, a tool is " a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task"


My guns are tools for the task of self defense

[PhaelixWW]

Marksmanship contests are practice for using a weapon for killing. What else is it for?

So kids learning to shoot a bow and arrow are practicing to kill? I guess movies like Brave and The Hunger Games are just more examples of entertainment media leading to a culture of violence, eh?

But I guess you'll come back with "But bows aren't used in mass shootings!" At which point you'd be switching the argument from what they were created as (weapons) to what they're actually used for (marksmanship). And the vast, vast, vast majority of these firearms are only ever used for sport marksmanship, so that's what they're used for - not killing.

These arguments about "purpose" are all circle-jerks where the arguer tends to change the nature of the argument to stay ahead of the issue, leading things around in a non-stop circle.

No I'm not. I'm saying it's to be expected when people who support guns create a culture of hostility, brutality and indirect support of mass slaughter.

Well, then, it's a good thing we do none of those things.

...if you see how many "accidents" happen in the states with assault weapons compared to Europe or other countries where they are banned....

What "accidents"? Is the word "accident" here a euphemism for a shooting?

Regardless, nobody's really denying that the US has more firearms per capita and more firearm crime than Europe. But the hypocrisy of laying the blame on "assault weapons" which are used in <5% of firearm homicides seems pretty stupid to me. The failure to acknowledge that handguns are more than 20x more likely to be used to murder someone than an assault weapon, and that anybody who failed to get an assault weapon would likely just get a handgun instead makes the stat even more meaningless.

Especially if you want to add suicides into the argument, which some people do. Fewer people would attempt to suicide by firearm if all they had was an AR-15, for example, rather than a handgun.

And yet lawmakers know that there's no way they'll be able to successfully ban handguns without repealing the 2nd Amendment, which is not going to happen. So we get nonsense bans like this, designed to make it look like politicians are having an effect on crime when the reality is... they're not.

But "politics is perception" after all.

[Reeve]

So apparently some guy in LA who was fired from the LA police force essentially for being crazy has published a manifesto saying he'll bring "unconventional warfare" to all LA police. He's shot 5 people so far, including 3 police, one of which died, and he's still on the loose.

[Svifnymr]

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/2nd-...oomberg-obama/

Long "fireside chat", wide range of topics, no yelling.

[Daelak]

So apparently some guy in LA who was fired from the LA police force essentially for being crazy has published a manifesto saying he'll bring "unconventional warfare" to all LA police. He's shot 5 people so far, including 3 police, one of which died, and he's still on the loose.

See if the cops had more guns on them this would of never happened. George Washington. Militia. Minutemen. Patriot. There, now I am a true American.

[Svifnymr]

That wasn't the implication. I know plenty of gun owners don't end up using their guns for killing. The point is that's what they DO. A gun, for "protection" is actually for killing another human (self-defence to paranoid murder, take your pick.) A gun for marksmanship is practice for what the gun is meant to do - killing.

Guns are for killing. There's little else they're any good at. Maybe art for a collector?

A firearm is a tool to fire a projectile. There are many target rifles that are not intended for shooting a living target, there are many that are indeed designed as collector items and not even intended to be fired. There are many that are designed for hunting, there are many that are designed for concealed carry.

There are many different designs of firearms.

There are small claw hammers that are designed for driving nails, there are large hammer designed for smashing larger things. There are hammers that were designed for war, even. Yes, a hammer is a tool, but should that mean that every size and variety of hammer is commonly available? Same with axes, there is a large selection of axes at my local (urban) sears, shouldn't we ban hammers or axes above a certain size unless you can demonstrate a reasonable requirement for one? Well, no, of course not. Many people will do their own yard work and such, just as many people understand they are responsible for defending themselves, since the police aren't close by and are not responsible for it.

[Daelak]

A firearm is a tool to fire a projectile. There are many target rifles that are not intended for shooting a living target, there are many that are indeed designed as collector items and not even intended to be fired. There are many that are designed for hunting, there are many that are designed for concealed carry.

There are many different designs of firearms.

There are small claw hammers that are designed for driving nails, there are large hammer designed for smashing larger things. There are hammers that were designed for war, even. Yes, a hammer is a tool, but should that mean that every size and variety of hammer is commonly available? Same with axes, there is a large selection of axes at my local (urban) sears, shouldn't we ban hammers or axes above a certain size unless you can demonstrate a reasonable requirement for one? Well, no, of course not. Many people will do their own yard work and such, just as many people understand they are responsible for defending themselves, since the police aren't close by and are not responsible for it.

A nail-gun is a tool that fires a projectile. Why don't people carry around nail guns?

Guns are made to maim and kill.

[Svifnymr]

The UK doesn't have a President.

I'm not in the UK.

I don't bother with my location either, but if your location is "thunder bluff", and you post the first part, it's easy to understand why they'd assume you were from the UK.

[mistuhbull]

A nail-gun is a tool that fires a projectile. Why don't people carry around nail guns?

Guns are made to maim and kill.

because a properly made nail gun will not fire the nail unless it is pressed against a surface? Not to mention, most nail guns are pneumatic and therefore need to be hooked into compressed air in order to function. Really, carrying a nail gun around would just give you are large thing to hit people with, and a hammer or axe are much better suited for that