Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[lockedout]

The loophole is good and bad. But the negative potential it can bring leads me to think it should be reworked.

I think using the word loophole is not quite correct.

When the assault weapons ban in I believe 1994 was put into action, there was written into the law that all private sales between non dealers would not require a background check. This was agreed upon by both sides so calling it a loophole insinuating it wasn't discussed and agreed upon by both sides before becoming law is disingenuous. Now I am not saying that the law can't be or shouldn't be changed to having both parties use an FFL to broker the sale, I'm just saying calling it a "loophole" is the same rhetoric as calling a semi auto rifle an "assault weapon" and crafted by the same ideology.

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It doesn't really matter what the Supreme Court thinks about guns. Every self defense course and every stastic will tell you pulling out a gun greatly increases the danger you are in. I can understand the sentiment for self defense, but reality says otherwise.

He never mentioned pulling out a gun, just carrying one and exercising his constitutional right. I have no problem with him or anyone else doing so. You should care what the supreme court says about guns since they ultimately are the deciding factor.

[Ghostpanther]

And yet, 2A didn't defend the victims of Parkland and Sandy Hook. It also allowed the Vegas shooter to achieve a higher body count than a coordinated ten men knife attack in China. You can keep saying it's for self defense, the reality is people aren't being very well defended.

You are right that it's a people problem. It does not however negate it's also a gun problem. Because apparently people can't handle gun rights, and would rather not do anything about it because it will inconvenience their gun ownership, or because of a document that hasn't adapted to modern times.

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It doesn't really matter what the Supreme Court thinks about guns. Every self defense course and every stastic will tell you pulling out a gun greatly increases the danger you are in. I can understand the sentiment for self defense, but reality says otherwise.

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Switzerland has stricter gun control, and even ammo control.

You do realism the number of victims in mass shootings such as Vegas and Texas or the Fla school shootings, are not representative of the majority of shootings and all of those were helpless victims, which better security , would have prevented. Most shootings occur from gang/drug wars in isolated cities, such as Baltimore.

And for your better education on this subject https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...rime-deterrent
“Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,”says a new report by the Centers for Disease Control

Oh course it matters. You lack a understanding of how our highest court in the land rulings, can impact how you get to exercise a right. Because of their ruling, I get to exercise my right to defend myself according to the Constitution with a firearm.

I do not live in Switzerland, so it really does not matter for myself what they do there. And as a comparison for here,the State of Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws in the Union and has for decades, yet has a extremely low crime rate. So clearly the reason for high crime is not the tool being used.

[Dystemper]

I have to laugh at all these people who think making a simple bomb is too difficult for a kid or not easy to do.

[Ghostpanther]

I have to laugh at all these people who think making a simple bomb is too difficult for a kid or not easy to do.

Yeah. They would have to ban pressure cookers.

[Dystemper]

Yeah. They would have to ban pressure cookers.

Ban PVC pipe, nails, propane tanks, copper wire, metal pipes, many house hold chemicals etc etc etc

[Ghostpanther]

Ban PVC pipe, nails, propane tanks, copper wire, metal pipes, many house hold chemicals etc etc etc

Lol. Yep. Also propane gas containers. I mean everyone would have to stop barbecuing outside with the propane units.

[Dystemper]

http://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02...searcher-says/



The deadly school shooting this month in Parkland, Florida, has ignited national outrage and calls for action on gun reform. But while certain policies may help decrease gun violence in general, it’s unlikely that any of them will prevent mass school shootings, according to James Alan Fox, the Lipman Family Professor of Criminology, Law, and Public Policy at Northeastern.

Since 1996, there have been 16 multiple victim shootings in schools, or incidents involving 4 or more victims and at least 2 deaths by firearms, excluding the assailant.

Of these, 8 are mass shootings, or incidents involving 4 or more deaths, excluding the assailant.



“This is not an epidemic”
Mass school shootings are incredibly rare events. In research publishing later this year, Fox and doctoral student Emma Fridel found that on average, mass murders occur between 20 and 30 times per year, and about one of those incidents on average takes place at a school.



Fridel and Fox used data collected by USA Today, the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Report, Congressional Research Service, Gun Violence Archive, Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries, Mother Jones, Everytown for Gun Safety, and a NYPD report on active shooters.
Their research also finds that shooting incidents involving students have been declining since the 1990s.




Four times the number of children were killed in schools in the early 1990s than today, Fox said.
“There is not an epidemic of school shootings,” he said, adding that more kids are killed each year from pool drownings or bicycle accidents. There are around 55 million school children in the United States, and on average over the past 25 years, about 10 students per year were killed by gunfire at school, according to Fox and Fridel’s research.




Fox said, however, some policy changes aimed at decreasing school shootings and gun violence in general certainly have merit. Banning bump stocks and raising the age of purchase for assault rifles from 18 to 21 are good ideas, and may lead to a decrease in overall gun violence, he said. But he doesn’t believe these measures will prevent school shootings. “The thing to remember is that these are extremely rare events, and no matter what you can come up with to prevent it, the shooter will have a workaround,” Fox said, adding that over the past 35 years, there have been only five cases in which someone ages 18 to 20 used an assault rifle in a mass shooting.

Fridel said increasing mental health resources for students is another strategy that might improve school safety, calling this a critical need that has been historically overlooked. She also said that the U.S. is facing a desperate shortage of guidance counselors. In 2014-15, the student-to-school counselor ratio was 482-to-1, according to the American School Counselor Association, nearly twice the organization’s recommended ratio.

“You might have students in a very large school who are troubled but who are basically flying under the radar, because you have one guidance counselor for 400 students,” Fridel said.
Should schools become fortresses?

After the Columbine High School shooting in 1999, schools across the country began holding active shooter drills in which they huddled together in a corner or hid under their desks. Such exercises—which may include someone walking around pretending to shoot students—can be very traumatic, Fridel said, and there is no evidence that they help protect students. “These measures just serve to alarm students and make them think it’s something that’s common,” she said.

Other safety precautions, such as installing metal detectors and requiring ID cards for entry, have also proven ineffective in past school shootings.

Fridel pointed to a few examples.
In 1989, a shooter killed five and injured 32 elementary school children in Stockton, California, by targeting them on the playground.
In 2005, a 16-year-old killed seven people at his Minnesota high school by walking through the front door metal detector and fatally shooting a guard.
In a 1998 shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, two students pulled a fire alarm and began sniping people as they filed out to the parking lot, killing five and wounding 10 others.




In addition to being ineffective, Fox said increased security measures of these kinds can do more harm than good. He called the suggestion to arm teachers “absurd” and “over the top.”“I’m not a big fan of making schools look like fortresses, because they send a message to kids that the bad guy is coming for you—if we’re surrounding you with security, you must have a bull’s-eye on your back,” Fox said. “That can actually instill fear, not relieve it.”

[Ghostpanther]

http://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02...searcher-says/

In addition to being ineffective, Fox said increased security measures of these kinds can do more harm than good. He called the suggestion to arm teachers “absurd” and “over the top.”“I’m not a big fan of making schools look like fortresses, because they send a message to kids that the bad guy is coming for you—if we’re surrounding you with security, you must have a bull’s-eye on your back,” Fox said. “That can actually instill fear, not relieve it.”

I agree it is overblown when it is pretty uncommon when compared to other deaths committed by criminals using firearms. But if you are a teacher and a shooter makes his way to your class room, would you rather be armed or unarmed and defenseless? If a teacher carries their firearm well concealed, there is no reason for the students to fear.

[Antiganon]

http://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02...searcher-says/

Glad to know his plan consists of "Do nothing, everything we have done or could do doesn't work, but 10 kids being shot to death in school is statistically insignificant anyway so who gives a shit?"

Makes me feel very comfortable as a parent.

I'm sure my son will understand that the likelihood of him being shot to death in school is statistically insignificant next time he is hiding during an active shooter drill.

[petej0]

Glad to know his plan consists of "Do nothing, everything we have done or could do doesn't work, but 10 kids being shot to death in school is statistically insignificant anyway so who gives a shit?"

Makes me feel very comfortable as a parent.

I'm sure my son will understand that the likelihood of him being shot to death in school is statistically insignificant next time he is hiding during an active shooter drill.

HAHA... There are 74 million students in the US from Kinder to College. You are 70 times more likely to be struck by lightening over the course of your life then to be shot in school.

[Deleted]

HAHA... There are 74 million students in the US from Kinder to College. You are 70 times more likely to be struck by lightening over the course of your life then to be shot in school.

Its still messed up.
There has been more school shootings in america than in all this countries combined:
(this is a copy paste from an article, it would take too much time for me to edit, sorry)

Argentina

Australia

Azerbaijan

Belgium

Bosnia-Herzegovina

Brazil

Bulgaria

Canada

China

Denmark

England

Finland

France

German

Greece

Guatemala

Hungary

India

Israel

Italy

Japan

Kenya

Latvia

Netherlands

Northern Ireland

Norway

Poland

Russian Federation

Scotland

South Africa

South Korea

Swaziland

Thailand

Trinidad and Tobago

Yemen

[petej0]

Its still messed up.
There has been more school shootings in america than in all this countries combined:
(this is a copy paste from an article, it would take too much time for me to edit, sorry)
Argentina

Australia

Azerbaijan

Belgium

Bosnia-Herzegovina

Brazil

Bulgaria

Canada

China

Denmark

England

Finland

France

German

Greece

Guatemala

Hungary

India

Israel

Italy

Japan

Kenya

Latvia

Netherlands

Northern Ireland

Norway

Poland

Russian Federation

Scotland

South Africa

South Korea

Swaziland

Thailand

Trinidad and Tobago

Yemen

So, there has been more school shootings in America then there has been in the state of VT. I could make up any random group of whatever to show how useless that is.

[PhaelixWW]

Its still messed up.
There has been more school shootings in america than in all this countries combined:
(this is a copy paste from an article, it would take too much time for me to edit, sorry)

And yet we're still talking about only 0.04% of children deaths each year. It's only a minuscule part of a much larger issue.

[Antiganon]

HAHA... There are 74 million students in the US from Kinder to College. You are 70 times more likely to be struck by lightening over the course of your life then to be shot in school.

Do we let children run around outside in thunderstorms? No?

Your comment is relevant how exactly?

My point is that the young children afraid for their lives don't understand concepts like "statistically insignificant".

[Shadowferal]

This is why I don't argue with people in other countries about US law. They know nothing about living here, but for some illegitimate reason they imagine in some absurd fantasy that in their own little world can somehow apply laws and conditions from other countries. The only country that just might be applicable from that ridiculous list is Russia from the sheer amount of population. But fuck if I would ever tolerate such living conditions. The comparison would make even a "wild west" state preferable to live in.

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Do we let children run around outside in thunderstorms? No? Your comment is relevant how exactly? My point is that the young children afraid for their lives don't understand concepts like "statistically insignificant".

But parents do understand "statistically safe."

[Antiganon]

This is why I don't argue with people in other countries about US law. They know nothing about living here, but for some illegitimate reason they imagine in some absurd fantasy that in their own little world can somehow apply laws and conditions from other countries. The only country that just might be applicable from that ridiculous list is Russia from the sheer amount of population. But fuck if I would ever tolerate such living conditions. The comparison would make even a "wild west" state preferable to live in.

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But parents do understand "statistically safe."

That doesn't make my children less afraid.

I want my kids to not be afraid to go to school. When they tell me they are, I want to be able to honestly say "You don't need to be afraid, the police and your teachers are doing things to make sure you are safe."

[Lanfall]

Florida has a similar law, gotta lock up/ keep away from kids, but in nearly ever case I've ever heard of a kid getting ahold of a gun, they never prosecute. "The family has been through enough" sort of thing. I'm sure it happens sometimes, but not in the cases I've seen.

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Buying guns at Walmart/ Dicks/ Outdoor World is generally more of a "hey, it's close by and I'm there anyway" deal. I do think more outdoorsy types will give up on Dicks due to their publicity spotlight than would have bought guns from them. I certainly don't think the anti-gun folks will take up any of the slack though. The folks that wanted (and applauded) Dicks restrictions were mostly not their customers anyway.

Cabela's or Bass Pro here I come!

[Shadowferal]

That doesn't make my children less afraid.

If they are afraid, then that's your own damn fault for not talking to them...or perhaps you did just that and expressed your own shitty ignorant fears.

Oh, look at that; High school rifle team gets big donation after NRA grant rejected

The long and short of it, the school board played politics and rejected the grant, local businesses said "f-u" and ponied up the money...and then some for the team.

[Dystemper]

Your odds of dying in a car accident are 1 in 5000. People still drive with Thier kids

[Antiganon]

If they are afraid, then that's your own damn fault for not talking to them...or perhaps you did just that and expressed your own shitty ignorant fears.

Oh, look at that; High school rifle team gets big donation after NRA grant rejected

The long and short of it, the school board played politics and rejected the grant, local businesses said "f-u" and ponied up the money...and then some for the team.

They are afraid because the teachers are conducting drills where they need to hide because somebody could be coming through the school to shoot them.

To be clear, my son is not yet 3.

Try explaining concepts like statistical insignificance at that age.

He was terrified of fire drills the first time they had one as well, but that was much easier - there are firefighters that come into his school to talk about fire safety, smoke detectors that tell him when a fire is nearby, sprinklers that can put the fire out, and he can run away from the fire to get outside to safety.

We were able to reinforce those truths at home by testing the smoke detectors, purposely burning some food in the oven so he knew how the smoke detectors worked with a real fire, he knows that candles and other sources of fire are hot and he shouldn't touch them, and we went to my brother in law's house, where there is a big fire pit, to show him how even if it is a big fire, you can still put it out with water. We went to a local fair where he met some of the firefighters, got to see their gear and the big trucks, and now he feels much safer. He knows that fire is dangerous, but there are things and people that can help keep him safe.

None of those things apply to active shooters. There may or may not be police officers to talk about safety when there is an active shooter (not, in his school). There are no "active shooter alarms". There are no automated turrets to shoot an active shooter before they kill anyone. He can't run from an active shooter, he has to hide, back against the wall, crouched low on the floor, until the teacher tells him it's safe.

It is a fucking terrifying situation for small children, and for you to act like that is a parenting failure on my part is the height of ignorance. Were he in middle school or high school, yeah, that's on me for not explaining. But what am I supposed to say to a 2 1/2 year old?