Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[TZucchini]

So there is nothing about bearing arms in the 2nd? Courts are finally getting the right things when dealing with it.

The Second Amendment does not guarantee an individuals right to concealed carry.

Was I unclear in the first post?

[rhandric]

The Second Amendment does not guarantee an individuals right to concealed carry.

Was I unclear in the first post?

But it does guarantee the right to bear arms, and open carry is usually restricted (if not banned altogether), and generally a bad idea in the first place.

[Zoranon]

The Second Amendment does not guarantee an individuals right to concealed carry.

Was I unclear in the first post?

If you had even bothered to read a bit about the subject (even just a resume of one of the cases), you would know that the courts are now saying that since the 2nd grants the right to keep and bear, the states cannot disallow both open and concealed carry.

[TZucchini]

If you had even bothered to read a bit about the subject (even just a resume of one of the cases), you would know that the courts are now saying that since the 2nd grants the right to keep and bear, the states cannot disallow both open and concealed carry.

If you had even bothered to look at the words I wrote, you'd realize I made a very specific statement, which you're just dancing around.

For example.

[Zoranon]

If you had even bothered to look at the words I wrote, you'd realize I made a very specific statement, which you're just dancing around.

For example.

The 2nd clearly guarantees you a right to carry, the states may choose to disallow either open, or concealed carry, but they cannot bar both as that would nullify you right to bear arms.

[PhaelixWW]

"California officials have been put on notice that they can no longer treat the Second Amendment as a heavily regulated government privilege.”

That's funny. I didn't know the right to concealed carry was guaranteed in the Second Amendment.

Oh, that's right. It's not.

Nice attempt at some sarcastic snark, but it just shows that you didn't bother to actually read about why the judgment was made.

The reason these concealed carry laws and policies are being shot down is because California has completely banned open carry for civilians. The argument in these cases is that if open carry is banned and concealed carry is virtually impossible to get, then that's tantamount to a de facto handgun ban in public, which violates the 2nd Amendment.

So yes. The laws are being shot down for violating the 2nd Amendment.

Basically, this is going to force California legislators to decide whether to make California a shall-issue state, or repeal the open carry ban.

- - - Updated - - -

The Second Amendment does not guarantee an individuals right to concealed carry.

Was I unclear in the first post?

Yes, you were unclear, because the sarcastic tone you had following the quote you posted indicated that you were making fun of the sentiment in that quote.

However, the quote said nothing about concealed carry being a right. The scope of those cases is larger, even if the law they seek to overturn relates specifically to concealed carry. Reread the quote you posted and think about it in those terms.

The point is, these cases are won on the basis of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, not a right to concealed carry, so your attempt at "humor" falls flat.

[lockedout]

Facebook is finally stepping up to curb gun sales through their site.

Curbing a totally legal sale under the law.

[TZucchini]

Nice attempt at some sarcastic snark

Thank you, thank you. I like to lighten up the mood in here.

The argument in these cases is that if open carry is banned and concealed carry is virtually impossible to get, then that's tantamount to a de facto handgun ban in public, which violates the 2nd Amendment.

Virtually impossible? That's a bit of hyperbole, no?

Difficult, sure. But Virtually impossible? California had over 35,000 concealed carry permits in circulation, before the ruling.

So yes. The laws are being shot down for violating the 2nd Amendment.

Which doesn't change what I said. The Second Amendment doesn't guarantee concealed carry.

The point is, these cases are won on the basis of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, not a right to concealed carry, so your attempt at "humor" falls flat.

My attempt at humor falls curvy, never flat.

- - - Updated - - -

Curbing a totally legal sale under the law.

I guess that depends what state they're from. And which state they're selling to.

[vaeevictiss]

I guess that depends what state they're from. And which state they're selling to.

Well a person in one state cannot sell a firearm in a private transaction to a resident of another state, thats federal law, and you could just report that person to law enforcement if they are trying to do it on facebook.

As for in-state transaction, if it is legal, then its legal, if not, then that again can be reported to law enforcement...its a self correcting problem.


And i recently saw something the Moms Demand Action group put out about how a felon was caught trying to buy a firearm through someone on facebook and got arrested. They were ranting about how that was why Facebook needs to ban stuff like that and all i said to to them was,

"This doesnt really show its a problem when the only case you post is one where the system worked and he was caught...thats kind of the point. Find one where a felon bought a gun off facebook and used it to murder someone."

Ive yet for them to reply to me. Regardless, the majority of gun owners that DO sell guns, do it responsibly. Here in VA just about anyone you buy a gun from will make sure you have a concealed handgun permit, because that tells them basically everything a state background check does. Contrary to popular belief, gun owners dont want to assist people in killing babies and raping women.

[PhaelixWW]

Virtually impossible? That's a bit of hyperbole, no?

Difficult, sure. But Virtually impossible? California had over 35,000 concealed carry permits in circulation, before the ruling.

No. California is a may-issue state. Which means that the local sheriff has the last say in whether or not you can get a concealed carry permit.

These laws and policies are being shot down at the county level, because in those counties, the sheriffs basically never allow concealed carry. In other counties in the state, the sheriffs issue them to whomever meets the normal criteria (background check, etc.).

So virtually impossible is correct, since it was referring to San Diego and Yolo counties.

Which doesn't change what I said. The Second Amendment doesn't guarantee concealed carry.

Which doesn't change the fact that it was a strawman post, since the quote you were "responding" to didn't make that claim. Your attempted insulting humor about the quote you posted just sounded ridiculous, since you were arguing against a claim that was never made.

[Roxinius]

Well a person in one state cannot sell a firearm in a private transaction to a resident of another state, thats federal law, and you could just report that person to law enforcement if they are trying to do it on facebook.

As for in-state transaction, if it is legal, then its legal, if not, then that again can be reported to law enforcement...its a self correcting problem.


And i recently saw something the Moms Demand Action group put out about how a felon was caught trying to buy a firearm through someone on facebook and got arrested. They were ranting about how that was why Facebook needs to ban stuff like that and all i said to to them was,

"This doesnt really show its a problem when the only case you post is one where the system worked and he was caught...thats kind of the point. Find one where a felon bought a gun off facebook and used it to murder someone."

Ive yet for them to reply to me. Regardless, the majority of gun owners that DO sell guns, do it responsibly. Here in VA just about anyone you buy a gun from will make sure you have a concealed handgun permit, because that tells them basically everything a state background check does. Contrary to popular belief, gun owners dont want to assist people in killing babies and raping women.

you never will get a response you were more then likely banned after your comment was deleted

[Tinykong]

No. California is a may-issue state. Which means that the local sheriff has the last say in whether or not you can get a concealed carry permit.

These laws and policies are being shot down at the county level, because in those counties, the sheriffs basically never allow concealed carry. In other counties in the state, the sheriffs issue them to whomever meets the normal criteria (background check, etc.).

So virtually impossible is correct, since it was referring to San Diego and Yolo counties.

Sounds like Maryland.

Want a concealed carry permit? You better handle money for work, or be the victim of a documented attack, otherwise, too fucking bad.

[PhaelixWW]

Sounds like Maryland.

Want a concealed carry permit? You better handle money for work, or be the victim of a documented attack, otherwise, too fucking bad.

Maryland at least has licensed open carry. California has banned it, which is the heart of the problem here.

[vaeevictiss]

Sounds like Maryland.

Want a concealed carry permit? You better handle money for work, or be the victim of a documented attack, otherwise, too fucking bad.

go south to VA...although we headed that way with all the blue blood thats been seeping down south. People vote themselves into the biggest damn messes until they feel no choice but to leave and move to a free-er state...and what do they do? Keep up the same voting practices that fucked up their last one.

[Masark]

Want a concealed carry permit? You better handle money for work, or be the victim of a documented attack, otherwise, too fucking bad.

Sounds like Canada, only it's for any kind of carry.

[Tinykong]

Maryland at least has licensed open carry. California has banned it, which is the heart of the problem here.

Maryland's permit to carry is either concealed or open, the requirements are the same either way.

Edit: for hand guns.

[Zoranon]

Virtually impossible? That's a bit of hyperbole, no?

Difficult, sure. But Virtually impossible? California had over 35,000 concealed carry permits in circulation, before the ruling.

35 thousand permits for a state that has population of over 38 millions is actually pretty close to almost impossible. Especially given that California operates under Max-issue system, where it may be easy to get one in one county and almost impossible in another.

And as has been said before, 2nd guarantees you a right to carry and various Californian counties sought to eliminate said right.

[Incredibale]

go south to VA...although we headed that way with all the blue blood thats been seeping down south. People vote themselves into the biggest damn messes until they feel no choice but to leave and move to a free-er state...and what do they do? Keep up the same voting practices that fucked up their last one.

Liberals love to do that, Californian liberals in particular. When they can't stand the smell of their own shit they hike to the next state and take a dump in it.

Rinse and repeat til every state is borked.

[Ghostpanther]

Maryland's permit to carry is either concealed or open, the requirements are the same either way.

Edit: for hand guns.

I am thinking I heard it is the same for New York. We need members of the Supreme Court who understand the US Constitution. Apparently the law makers in Vermont do. If I heard right, you need no permit to carry a handgun there. They figure why do we need a law for such, when the Constitution already gives the citizens that right.

[Roxinius]

Just read 250 police officers have stated they will not enforce the new gun control laws in Connecticut