Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Deleted]

I will teach my young son and daughter about guns, what they can do, and how to use them responsibly, when they are old enough (10 unless they ask younger, any older and they will 100% have bad information else)

What if your kid develops a mental disorder at the age of 18 or 20?
This type of thing happens out of nowhere.
I have family members and friends who were suicidal at some point. Other friend developed paranoia at the age of twenty something.

We never know, because we are human beings. Human beings are fragile and unpredictable.
If everyone has access to guns a disaster is bound to happen if a person develops a mental disorder. Which is not that uncommon.

[Mullet Man]

At 18y olds are still childs.
Because in your mid twenties you probably got out of schools. Isnt it the problem? "School" shootings.

The Parkland shooter was a 19 year old former student.
He was expelled, and not allowed at the school, but was there anyway.

His guns should have been taken away.
He was reported multiple times and directly threatened to shoot-up the school.

The Sheriff's Office and FBI failed to act, and when they did respond, they stood outside.

[Antiganon]

Would a link to a half dozen academic pieces supporting the premise suffice? Law is also academic knowledge, and that includes that robbery doesn't require an actual weapon to be "armed", only a reasonable belief on the part of the victim that they'd be harmed with a weapon if they didn't cooperate. That's as hard a legal truth as the tax rate. You can't rationally believe you've disproven that because there is a dearth of criminals who've attempted that particular bit of genius frequently enough to have a linkable track record. It could be a pack of starbursts, it could be the TV remote, it could be a toy gun -- what matters is the fear and reaction it creates in the victim.

If you can only concede to convictions involving toy guns, let's go right back to apples to apples -- now it's someone who pulls out a prop gun at night when someone is about to carjack them in the parking lot; believing their intended victim to be armed, they leave. That is a defensive gun use for the same reason the linked story was armed robbery.

Academic press pieces are not convictions by a jury of your peers, so no, it does not suffice.

Also, no, I will not concede to toy guns. When cops can be justified in shooting a teenager because he had a toy gun, you don't get to say having a toy gun and pretending to have a gun (when you in fact have nothing) are the same.

[Mullet Man]

What if your kid develops a mental disorder at the age of 18 or 20?
This type of thing happens out of nowhere.
I have family members and friends who were suicidal at some point. Other friend developed paranoia at the age of twenty something.

We never know, because we are human beings. Human beings are fragile and unpredictable.
If everyone has access to guns a disaster is bound to happen if a person develops a mental disorder. Which is not that uncommon.

Same question could be asked and gun replaced with car.
Do we ban all cars because a crazy person might use one to kill multiple people?

With that said, yes we need better mental care facilities in the USA. This is the issue.

[Deleted]

The Parkland shooter was a 19 year old former student.
He was expelled, and not allowed at the school, but was there anyway.

His guns should have been taken away.
He was reported multiple times and directly threatened to shoot-up the school.

The Sheriff's Office and FBI failed to act, and when they did respond, they stood outside.

More reason to restrict guns to ages of twenty something.
But yeah the authorities failed but i still think this is consequence of a "gun problem" and maybe a "mentality problem".

[Antiganon]

What if your kid develops a mental disorder at the age of 18 or 20?
This type of thing happens out of nowhere.
I have family members and friends who were suicidal at some point. Other friend developed paranoia at the age of twenty something.

We never know, because we are human beings. Human beings are fragile and unpredictable.
If everyone has access to guns a disaster is bound to happen if a person develops a mental disorder. Which is not that uncommon.

I have had mental problems. I have made suicide attempts.

That does not change my feelings on the right to bear arms, or the importance of firearms education.

If my children had issues with depression, I would remove my guns from my home and get them the help they need.

[Deleted]

I have had mental problems. I have made suicide attempts.

That does not change my feelings on the right to bear arms, or the importance of firearms education.

If my children had issues with depression, I would remove my guns from my home and get them the help they need.

So you are well aware of how humans are fragile beings...
I wish you good luck to notice the depression/ possible mental issues early before they do anything crazy.
But we never know and sometimes is impossible to know.

Thats why i prefer people to keep away from guns and giving guns to the masses is a bad idea imo

[Deleted]

What if your kid develops a mental disorder at the age of 18 or 20?
This type of thing happens out of nowhere.
I have family members and friends who were suicidal at some point. Other friend developed paranoia at the age of twenty something.

We never know, because we are human beings. Human beings are fragile and unpredictable.
If everyone has access to guns a disaster is bound to happen if a person develops a mental disorder. Which is not that uncommon.

What if you get a driver licens and then become mentaly ill a few years later, you can still drive a car even if you are completely nuts.
The only way to keep people safe from others is to make sure people stay inside and never go outside. You dont need a gun to hurt other people.

[Mullet Man]

More reason to restrict guns to ages of twenty something.
But yeah the authorities failed but i still think this is consequence of a "gun problem" and maybe a "mentality problem".

I don't want to debate this in circles.
The age is set to 18 now.

If the age is changed to something higher, I would argue that all the rights and responsibilities granted at adulthood be changed to match, with access granted to those at a lower age on merit based achievements.

The Parkland shooter should have been placed in a mental ward, long before February 14, 2018.

Also, I linked this earlier, but is a good read on the current mental health crisis in the USA:
https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/56747...-health-crisis

[Deleted]

What if you get a driver licens and then become mentaly ill a few years later, you can still drive a car even if you are completely nuts.
The only way to keep people safe from others is to make sure people stay inside and never go outside. You dont need a gun to hurt other people.

Cars are not made to kill people. Guns are.
A person with a baseball bat is less dangerous than a person with a gun.

[Deleted]

Cars are not made to kill people. Guns are.
A person with a baseball bat is less dangerous than a person with a gun.

You can use your car to drive in to a shit load of people, and you can use your gun to shoot at watermelons.
It doesnt matter what things are ´made for´ its how people use the things.
A man with a bomb is more dangerous then a man with a gun, but haveing a bomb is illegal in America...yet it happens.

[Mullet Man]

Cars are not made to kill people. Guns are.
A person with a baseball bat is less dangerous than a person with a gun.

The Nice, France truck attack killed 86 people and injured 458 others.

[Deleted]

The Nice, France truck attack killed 86 people and injured 458 others.

But we cant justify "gun violence" by showing other cases of violence.
Isnt it the current probem at discussion "guns"?
We are talking about guns which is the problem at hand.

People with access to guns are hurting other people.

We can start saying "the problem is the people, not the guns", but ffs, a gun is made to kill people. Is an object of destruction made to kill.
And is delivered to the public

[Mullet Man]

But we cant justify "gun violence" by showing other cases of violence.
Isnt it the current probem at discussion "guns"?
We are talking about guns which is the problem at hand.

People with access to guns are hurting other people.

We can start saying "the problem is the people, not the guns", but ffs, a gun is made to kill people. Is an object of destruction made to kill.
And is delivered to the public

I think that is the point we are trying to make.
"Guns" are not the source of the problem, and there are no easy solutions.

Mental Health is the the real issue.
How do we address this problem? Again, no easy solutions.

[Deleted]

I think that is the point we are trying to make.
"Guns" are not the source of the problem, and there are no easy solutions.

Mental Health is the the real issue.
How do we address this problem? Again, no easy solutions.

So you dont think there is a problem by distributing "objects made to kill" to people that we already established that are fragile beings...

Even i have had mental issues as well as Antiganon and a couple of friends and family.
Could we please establish that human beings are fragile beings and that distributing "objects to kill" to this beings is a bad idea?

Mental issues cannot be prevented. They can be cured. Which is already to late at that point.

[Deleted]

But we cant justify "gun violence" by showing other cases of violence.
Isnt it the current probem at discussion "guns"?
We are talking about guns which is the problem at hand.

People with access to guns are hurting other people.

We can start saying "the problem is the people, not the guns", but ffs, a gun is made to kill people. Is an object of destruction made to kill.
And is delivered to the public

That is abit to simple to say that "guns are made to kill". Guns are made to sell, to make money. If you put the gun under your pillow, or shoot it at the shooting range everyday it doesnt matter to the manufacture. They want you to pay for it. If you are hellbent on hurting other people you dont need a gun, you might use a gun though, but does it really matter if its legal to own a gun then or not ?

We have shootings in Sweden, almost every gun used in a shooting is an "illegal" gun (the shooter doesnt have a licens for it) but would it matter though ?
Would it matter if the shooter is a 18 year old kid or a 65 year old man ? You can not just walk in to a shop in Sweden and buy a gun but yet there are shootings. (just tonight there was two shootings in Malmö)

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...g-pa-rosengard (in swedish though)

*Again I dont own a gun, I never shot a gun, I do not ever plan on shooting a gun. But I absolutly do not think a ban is the solution, because a ban doesnt change people from doing stupid things (with a gun or a car or w/e)

[Mullet Man]

So you dont think there is a problem by distributing "objects made to kill" to people that we already established that are fragile beings...

Even i have had mental issues as well as Antiganon and a couple of friends and family.
Could we please establish that human beings are fragile beings and that distributing "objects to kill" to this beings is a bad idea?

Mental issues cannot be precented. They can be cured. Which is already to late at that point.

I think you need to define distributing.
In the USA guns are not distributed, they are purchased under a strict set of rules with background checks.

There are different laws in each State, but generally, people with felonies, mental issues, restraining orders, etc... are not allowed to own or possess a gun.

I do not see any issue with law abiding US citizens owning a gun, knife, car, or any exercising any other freedom granted to them by the Constitution.

[Deleted]

I think you need to define distributing.
In the USA guns are not distributed, they are purchased under a strict set of rules with background checks.

There are different laws in each State, but generally, people with felonies, mental issues, restraining orders, etc... are not allowed to own or possess a gun.

I do not see any issue with law abiding US citizens owning a gun, knife, car, or any exercising any other freedom granted to them by the Constitution.

Back
Background checks
Not "future checks"

Every kid shooting a school is their first time doing so. Im pretty sure a kid only does one school shooting their entire life.

Sure, background checks can prevent some shootings. But isnt it a minority?
As you can see by the results of said laws. Very bad results.

[Mullet Man]

Back
Background checks
Not "future checks"

Every kid shooting a school is their first time doing so. Im pretty sure a kid only does one school shooting their entire life.

Sure, background checks can prevent some shootings. But isnt it a minority?
As you can see by the results of said laws.

Back to my original question to you...
What new laws would you implement that would solve this problem?

I have only see you offer two solutions:
1 - Ban all guns
2 - Raise the age to legally purchase a gun to 20something

My responses:
1 - Might as well implement world peace and solve world hunger at the same time.
2 - This is a point that should be debated, but if determined no one is mature enough to own a gun at 18, then the laws for adulthood should be changed to the new age.

[Deleted]

Back to my original question to you...
What new laws would you implement that would solve this problem?

I have only see you offer two solutions:
1 - Ban all guns
2 - Raise the age to legally purchase a gun to 20something

My responses:
1 - Might as well implement world peace and solve world hunger at the same time.
2 - This is a point that should be debated, but if determined no one is mature enough to own a gun at 18, then the laws for adulthood should be changed to the new age.

My first and main priority would be to make "schools safe"
#Make_Schools_Safe

By increasing the age limit to 23 or even 25.

But why does it need to be a correlation between "gun restriction" and "age of adulthood"?
Permission to hold an object to kill people doesnt have to be correlated to "adulthood". They are 2 different things.
I dont understand the drama of this. May be due to our cultural differences, idk.