Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Stormdash]

"The government isnt coming for anyone's guns, but if we can't come for them with cops, we'll by God violate federal law and send the army to take them."

Run on this.

[Deleted]

"The government isnt coming for anyone's guns, but if we can't come for them with cops, we'll by God violate federal law and send the army to take them."

Run on this.

First of all, god doesn't have anything to do with this. Secondly, yes, if you start shooting at the police because you don't agree with them doing their jobs then at some point the army will show up if the police cant handle it.

[Stormdash]

First of all, god doesn't have anything to do with this. Secondly, yes, if you start shooting at the police because you don't agree with them doing their jobs then at some point the army will show up if the police cant handle it.

A scenario you have spent a lot of time thinking about, one might think, for someone who doesn't think the government is ever going to be "coming for our guns".

[Mullet Man]

This sure sounds a lot like "we have tried nothing and are all out of ideas". No one is going to claim that it will be easy or that no one will ever get shot again. The only thing that is said that it is needed.

So no reregistration at all, except for a very few.



But without registration of anything, how are you going to tell that it happened? It might be illegal, but there is no way to check it since they aren't registered. You can buy pretty much anything on a gun show without pretty much any questions asked.



Hey, im not the one being paranoid that the government is coming for them.. And, when the police cant handle it you can bet your bootie that the army will follow quickly. "Resisting an evil government" is nothing more then a romantic story that is sold to americans to keep selling guns to them.



If you want to talk about "disingenuous arguments" THIS IS IT. No really, you are comparing two things to each other that you cant compare like that. Guns have no use in a society besides killing people, that is what they are there for. Cars how ever, cars are used mainly for other things. Can you kill someone with a car? Of course you can, but that isn't its main use. Yes, cars are necessary, and so is food. We need transportation, we need food to sustain us, we do not need guns to kill everyone who look awkwardly at us. And if you want to drive a car you will need a license to drive one.

Guns are designed to kill stuff, that is that they do. Having a gun makes it much more easy to kill people, even a lot of them. Handing them out to everyone isnt "making you safe" in any way, in fact, it makes you less safe. Again, look at the rest of the civilized world and see how they are doing without the need to have a gun for protection.

Before you start about gun violence in Europe, yes, we have that too. But strangely enough we do not have random people who start to shoot up places, we have terrorist attacks. There is a big difference between those two..

The OP was off by a factor of 10. There are 300+ millions guns in the US.
That doesn't address your response, but I wanted to clarify.

I believe you might be conflating gun registration and background checks.
Backgrounds checks are required when purchasing a gun from a licensed reseller.
A gun registration would be a list of all people who own guns, and ripe for abuse.

Finally, if you think that guns do not have a practical use, then you have limited life experience outside of a city.

[Deleted]

A scenario you have spent a lot of time thinking about, one might think, for someone who doesn't think the government is ever going to be "coming for our guns".

Yes i've pondered it, for the shear silliness that it is. But this doesn't have anything to do with that, if you start shooting at the police and they can't handle it you can be assured that they will call in help. Thinking that you can stop the evil government with your guns is ridiculous.

[Stormdash]

The OP was off by a factor of 10. There are 300+ millions guns in the US.
That doesn't address your response, but I wanted to clarify.

I believe you might be conflating gun registration and background checks.
Backgrounds checks are required when purchasing a gun from a licensed reseller.
A gun registration would be a list of all people who own guns, and ripe for abuse.

Finally, if you think that guns do not have a practical use, then you have limited life experience outside of a city.

Or life inside of a city. Or life on Earth generally.

There are some estimates that even that 300m number could be off by half or more. And I have no idea if those numbers include, for instance, stripped AR lowers which are legally firearms. And no idea whatsoever if there is any estimate of how many 80% AR and pistol lowers there are that just need an hour or so of tooling to be ready to build out.

[Mullet Man]

Yes i've pondered it, for the shear silliness that it is. But this doesn't have anything to do with that, if you start shooting at the police and they can't handle it you can be assured that they will call in help. Thinking that you can stop the evil government with your guns is ridiculous.

The Vietnamese and Afghans did a pretty good job at holding off the US Army with small arms.
Now if the US Government decided to nuke its own people, I concede.

[Deleted]

The OP was off by a factor of 10. There are 300+ millions guns in the US.
That doesn't address your response, but I wanted to clarify.

I believe you might be conflating gun registration and background checks.
Backgrounds checks are required when purchasing a gun from a licensed reseller.
A gun registration would be a list of all people who own guns, and ripe for abuse.

Finally, if you think that guns do not have a practical use, then you have limited life experience outside of a city.

No im not conflating anything, yes a registration that lets you see exactly who has what gun and what the serial numbers are, that is needed at the very least.

If you think that a gun has any other use besides killing something then you are deluding your self. In a normal environment no one is in any need for a gun.

[Stormdash]

Yes i've pondered it, for the shear silliness that it is. But this doesn't have anything to do with that, if you start shooting at the police and they can't handle it you can be assured that they will call in help. Thinking that you can stop the evil government with your guns is ridiculous.

The limit of available help in this scenario is the national guard.

[Mullet Man]

No im not conflating anything, yes a registration that lets you see exactly who has what gun and what the serial numbers are, that is needed at the very least.

If you think that a gun has any other use besides killing something then you are deluding your self. In a normal environment no one is in any need for a gun.

I have used my guns many times without killing something. No delusions at all.

What would a registration accomplish, assuming it was possible to keep it accurate, and criminals would self report gun transfers?

[Deleted]

The Vietnamese and Afghans did a pretty good job at holding of the US Army with small arms.
Now if the US Government decided to nuke its own people, I concede.

Yes they did, but that doesn't have anything to do with the guns that they have. People will always rebel against tyrannical governments, and they will almost always be the winner. You can't occupy something with an army and declare victory, that is not how it works. These people would have resisted with or without arms, it is their cooperation, organization and determination that won over the Vietnamese and the Afghans. When your country is engulfed in war the weapons will get there anyway, you having them before there is any need does't do anyone any good.

- - - Updated - - -

I have used my guns many times without killing something. No delusions at all.

What would a registration accomplish, assuming it was possible to keep it accurate, and criminals would self report gun transfers?

Yes, you have practiced shooting someone, that is still not what that gun was made for, it was made to kill things. period.

What a registration guns would do?! Are you serious? It would leave a far better trail of the guns and the gun owners, who fucked up where would be much more easy to trace. Keeping it accurate is just a matter of enforcing it properly.

[Mullet Man]

Yes they did, but that doesn't have anything to do with the guns that they have. People will always rebel against tyrannical governments, and they will almost always be the winner. You can't occupy something with an army and declare victory, that is not how it works. These people would have resisted with or without arms, it is their cooperation, organization and determination that won over the Vietnamese and the Afghans. When your country is engulfed in war the weapons will get there anyway, you having them before there is any need does't do anyone any good.

Having them beforehand decreases the chance that government will become tyrannical and require mass bloodshed to resolve.

[Deleted]

The limit of available help in this scenario is the national guard.

Until they cant hack it, then it will be the army.

- - - Updated - - -

Having them beforehand decreases the chance that government will become tyrannical and require mass bloodshed to resolve.

Yea no it doesn't, just have a look at the rest of the civilized world.

[Shadowferal]

Until they cant hack it, then it will be the army.

Against US law to field the army on US soil.

Yea no it doesn't, just have a look at the rest of the civilized world.

You obviously think your small country is an example.

[Stormdash]

Until they cant hack it, then it will be the army.

Will this be by act of Congress, or by overthrow of the rule of law, in your RL headcanon?

[Mullet Man]

Yea no it doesn't, just have a look at the rest of the civilized world.

Read a history book. Many times tyrannical regimes began with the removal of guns from citizens.

[Deleted]

Against US law to field the army on US soil. You obviously think your small country is an example.

Lol, right, as if that is going to matter even one millimeter. Just like the CIA isn't supposed to operate inside the US.. When push comes to shove then they will send the big guns.

Obviously you think just because you live in a big country everything is different Right, its as if problems do not occur everywhere in this world, news flash, everyone is dealing with the same problems, it is just that they are dealt with differently and more effectively in other countries.

- - - Updated - - -

Read a history book. Many times tyrannical regimes began with the removal of guns from citizens.

Right... You do not seem to grasp that just because a tyrannical regime bans weapons doesnt mean that banning weapons is only done by a tyrannical regimes. Point of fact, in Europe we "have banned weapons", yes we can still have them, but under a strick set of rules. That doesnt make any of these governments "tyrannical" in any way. What it does do is give these government lower death rates by shootings because there aren't any random people shooting up the place.

Oh and, Hitler didn't ban guns, he even handed them out to people who were on his side.

[Citizen T]

This sure sounds a lot like "we have tried nothing and are all out of ideas". No one is going to claim that it will be easy or that no one will ever get shot again. The only thing that is said that it is needed.

I and the majority of Americans - not too mention the The Constitution, the Congress, The President, and the Supreme Court - disagree.

But without registration of anything, how are you going to tell that it happened? It might be illegal, but there is no way to check it since they aren't registered. You can buy pretty much anything on a gun show without pretty much any questions asked.

I'm not sure what registration has to do with telling what happened. You mentioned buying dozens of guns. The only way to buy dozens of guns (even at a gun show) is to purchase from a dealer which is required by law to run a background check. Sure someone may illegally buy a gun or two from a gun show but if you're trying to say this is a huge percent of gun violence then you're going to have to prove that with some type of source. The reason being is that it just isn't true.

Hey, im not the one being paranoid that the government is coming for them.. And, when the police cant handle it you can bet your bootie that the army will follow quickly. "Resisting an evil government" is nothing more then a romantic story that is sold to americans to keep selling guns to them.

You're the one being paranoid that some law-abiding citizen carrying a gun with a CCW license is going to walk up and shoot you.

If you want to talk about "disingenuous arguments" THIS IS IT. No really, you are comparing two things to each other that you cant compare like that. Guns have no use in a society besides killing people, that is what they are there for. Cars how ever, cars are used mainly for other things. Can you kill someone with a car? Of course you can, but that isn't its main use. Yes, cars are necessary, and so is food. We need transportation, we need food to sustain us, we do not need guns to kill everyone who look awkwardly at us. And if you want to drive a car you will need a license to drive one.

Guns are designed to kill stuff, that is that they do. Having a gun makes it much more easy to kill people, even a lot of them. Handing them out to everyone isnt "making you safe" in any way, in fact, it makes you less safe. Again, look at the rest of the civilized world and see how they are doing without the need to have a gun for protection.

Before you start about gun violence in Europe, yes, we have that too. But strangely enough we do not have random people who start to shoot up places, we have terrorist attacks. There is a big difference between those two..

It's not a disingenous argument to compare to other things in our daily lives that can cause harm. While any death is a tragedy, the number of deaths due to firearms is a small fraction of the deaths that occur each year.

There about 2.7M deaths per year in the US.

Automobile accident deaths annually - ~38,000 sub category: drunk driving - ~10,000
Accidental fall deaths annually - ~34,000
Accidental poisoning deaths annually - ~ 48,000

Non-suicide firearms deaths annually - ~12,000

Less than one half of one percent of deaths in the US are due to firearm violence. You are 4 times more likely to die to accidental poisoning than to a firearm. Perhaps we need ban most household cleaners to help this.

[Dystemper]

We in America fought for our freedoms . Unlike places in Europe we are not arresting citizens for " hate speech". Because some one took something posted on Facebook as being hateful. Please stop comparing Europe to the USA. That never ends well. I get it, you are a American hating European elitist.

- - - Updated - - -

And in the last 100 years how many times has there been genocides in Europe because one government decided to exteriminate a large portion of Thier citizens? Don't hold Europe up as some beacon of light all should aspire to be.

[Mullet Man]

Right... You do not seem to grasp that just because a tyrannical regime bans weapons doesnt mean that banning weapons is only done by a tyrannical regimes. Point of fact, in Europe we "have banned weapons", yes we can still have them, but under a strick set of rules. That doesnt make any of these governments "tyrannical" in any way. What it does do is give these government lower death rates by shootings because there aren't any random people shooting up the place.

Oh and, Hitler didn't ban guns, he even handed them out to people who were on his side.

I didn't use Hitler as a specific example, but he did restrict guns from specific groups. Groups he later had gassed.

You are failing to grasp that Tyranny is not a binary event.
One day off, next day on.

It doesn't just happen over night (in most cases).
It is implemented a little at a time.
With each new restriction for the good of the masses.

When countries begin convicting comedians for bad attempts at humor, I would be concerned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5CNf7pMAM