Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Roxinius]

Only reacting to crime after it happens is the best way to do things. Surely.

In the mean time how about we let the CDC do some research on gun violence. Surely you have nothing to fear if they do that.

They already did do research

[Ivanstone]

They already did do research

When? Certainly not recently. Cuz they're not allowed to currently. Its almost like things need to be re-examined constantly because the world changes over time.

[Dadwen]

The militia acts of 1903 defined them as such, and prior to the passage of that law in the 1800's, it was a common reference the US military attributed to them since most were ill equipped, insubordinate, and had high levels of desertion and objectors. The communities basically forfeited their right afforded to them in the BoR to the minted national military, and nary a peep was said when the militias were federalized, effectively rendering the 2nd amendment an artifact, just like the 3rd.

It states well regulated because like you defined earlier, well regulation in the 18th century meant properly functioning. A properly functioning militia in the 18th century had uniforms, trained regularly with veterans, wore uniforms, and used armories as a base of operations. Unorganized militia-men were quickly trained by the well regulated militias in due time, with many drill sergeants coming from the prior British wars on the continent.

umm no even in the paper work at the time the Militia was every able body person and you still didn't answer my question who trains equips and holds the guns for the "militia if it's not meaning for people just to have their own? and again properly function for them was for all free man to be armed and ready to come to the defence of the state (or against the state to keep it free)

[Roxinius]

When? Certainly not recently. Cuz they're not allowed to currently. Its almost like things need to be re-examined constantly because the world changes over time.

5 years ago under Obama

[Shadowferal]

Just as an aside, the FN 5.7...kinda sweet...and expensive:

[Ivanstone]

5 years ago under Obama

Try again:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...health/553430/

"The modern origins of the impasse can be traced to 1996, when Congress passed an amendment to a spending bill that forbade the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from using money to “advocate or promote gun control.”"

[Svifnymr]

Try again:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...health/553430/

"The modern origins of the impasse can be traced to 1996, when Congress passed an amendment to a spending bill that forbade the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from using money to “advocate or promote gun control.”"

There is a difference between researching gun violence and taking a political stance of advocating gun control. The amendment is just another misrepresentation of the NRA and it's initiatives.

Also, such legal/criminal matters are more appropriate for things like the NIJ, but meh, better to pay some docs to be political?

[Ghostpanther]

That might be what I'm thinking of, bump stocks. I know about guns as much as I do fixing cars, no doubt about it. Look, I understand that people want to feel safe. I get that. But doing stupid shit like the gun owners "expressing their right to free carry" and then end up coming in fully loaded to a police station or carrying 5+ guns and an AR-15 in public is just absurd. Having events like Sandy Hook shooting or the events in Las Vegas shouldn't happen, and people shouldn't argue that being able to have every gun imaginable is more important than protecting the lives of children. People arguing that even though someone has mental illnesses or mentally unstable people should still be allowed to have guns? Why? How?

The NRA is a joke of an association and is nothing more than a terrorist group at this point. (The kicker about that group? Anytime they have a get-together, it's conveniently NO GUNS ALLOWED in the venue)

If it is legal in some states, which it is, then hard to blame someone for exercising a right they have. I myself, am not going to carry a firearm out in the public. I do not want anyone to know I am carrying. But I am not going to condemn those who do. And the NRA is a strong advocate for the Second Amendment, this is evident by the liberals hatred of them. You are entitled to your opinion of them however, but 5+ million members happen to disagree.

- - - Updated - - -

Only reacting to crime after it happens is the best way to do things. Surely.

In the mean time how about we let the CDC do some research on gun violence. Surely you have nothing to fear if they do that.

They did in 2013 as directed by President Obama. Look it up. They concluded that firearms are a important self defense tool. http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/...ires-on-obama/

[Svifnymr]

That might be what I'm thinking of, bump stocks.

I'm not sure if there are any smaller crimes with them, but the only large mass shooting with a bump stock was the Vegas shooting. Certainly a terrible tragedy, but easily achieved with nearly any firearm. Literally like shooting fish in a barrel.

I know about guns as much as I do fixing cars, no doubt about it. Look, I understand that people want to feel safe. I get that. But doing stupid shit like the gun owners "expressing their right to free carry" and then end up coming in fully loaded to a police station or carrying 5+ guns and an AR-15 in public is just absurd.

For myself, I think it's more of a rural/ urban thing, but I wouldn't carry openly anyway. Most of the open carry guys are doing it to prove a point and confront the stigma directly, a "protest" of sorts.

Having events like Sandy Hook shooting or the events in Las Vegas shouldn't happen, and people shouldn't argue that being able to have every gun imaginable is more important than protecting the lives of children.

Because it's not a simple matter of "every gun imaginable", you can't just ban the bad guns. Australia/ UK banned all semi-automatics, but during that time the USA actually decreased crime by a larger percentage. The image that an ar15 is more lethal than a mini14, or that a handgun can't achieve similar numbers or a shotgun, or...
So now you're not just restricting specifics, you're restricting everything, because no one really "needs" any of it. And when you do away with millions of rifles to reduce the annual deaths from 300 to 100, you'll not worry about rights you don't care about.

People arguing that even though someone has mental illnesses or mentally unstable people should still be allowed to have guns? Why? How?

That's a misrepresentation of the Social Security debate about due process. The biggest obstacle to mental illness vs background checks is HIPAA.

The NRA is a joke of an association and is nothing more than a terrorist group at this point. (The kicker about that group? Anytime they have a get-together, it's conveniently NO GUNS ALLOWED in the venue)

Guns are allowed in the venue, except for specific areas that are controlled by secret service when the president or vice president gives a speech.

[Ivanstone]

They did in 2013 as directed by President Obama. Look it up. They concluded that firearms are a important self defense tool. http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/...ires-on-obama/

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15
"Many of these factors are confounding, and careful analysis is required to understand the independent and interactive effects, supporting the need for rigorous research."

Nice research overview. Not actual research.

Furthermore, I thought the US was a developed nation. Even the low estimate of required self-defense is appalling.

[RaoBurning]

So in other words, criminals misusing a firearm. They become criminals when they do. :P

Everyone is a law abiding citizen, until they aren't.

"So you want to punish law abiding citizens?"

No I just want to make it harder for them to kill 60 people from an Nth story window with a small armory when they finally do snap is all.

[Roxinius]

Try again:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...health/553430/

"The modern origins of the impasse can be traced to 1996, when Congress passed an amendment to a spending bill that forbade the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from using money to “advocate or promote gun control.”"

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...dia-narrative/

maybe you should try again

[Deianeira]

I'm at a loss with Daelak. I have show him how his words are wrong in black and white, but he does not concede. In better times, I would let him simply be stupid, but, in this day and age, his stupidity can contribute to the loss of freedoms for the country. What to do?

Unfortunately in this day and age, one does need modern weaponry. Leaving aside the error of saying clips when you mean magazines (a magazine contains a spring and a follower plate to push cartridges at the bottom of the bolt and fully encapsulates the cartridges, whereas a clip is simply a piece of metal that holds the cartridges in a geometrical arrangement) I can argue for needing both semi-auto and large capacity magazines.

The left is extremely racist, sexist, and possessed of a mind to persecute Christians these days. I am a white, straight, Christian male of good size and physique and I am not old. I am viewed as The Cause Of The Problem by (American) blacks, women, gays, Muslims, Jews, trannies, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, MS-13 (they're Salvadoran, I think), Somalis, angry Indians (of both Hindu and Native American variety), Chinese Triads, and I guess any Norks that make it away from Kim Jong Un. That is a lot of people who are gunning for me, and are totally encouraged to do so since only white, straight, Christian men can be racist or sexist or homophobic, or persecute a religion.

That many people who want you dead just because of your demographics is not an argument for hi-cap mags, it's an argument for BELT-FED.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/FN-M...ES/2428900.uts

Behold, a civilian legal belt fed semi auto machine gun! Shit yourselves, lefties.!

Holy shit, how can you even live like that, i mean watching over your shoulder all the time? Look behind you they are out to get you!

Seriously noone wants you dead. Just stop with the paranoia.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15
"Many of these factors are confounding, and careful analysis is required to understand the independent and interactive effects, supporting the need for rigorous research."

Nice research overview. Not actual research.

Furthermore, I thought the US was a developed nation. Even the low estimate of required self-defense is appalling.

The conclusion of the study is what you failed to see, or is that on purpose?

And now your real motive becomes clear. Since you are not a US citizen, your opinion on this matter weighs a lot less, considering you have no input into our system of laws. Being the most powerful nation on earth in both terms of economics and military, the world knows who is the leader.

Having a low estimate for self defense (in terms of the need for?) sounds like a good thing. How would that be appalling? The odds are extremely low in the whole range of causes of dying to have a need to use self defense. The important thing is, we have the right to choose how within the law.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone is a law abiding citizen, until they aren't.

"So you want to punish law abiding citizens?"

No I just want to make it harder for them to kill 60 people from an Nth story window with a small armory when they finally do snap is all.

There are ways they can make that harder without resorting to restricting the Constitutional rights of the citizens. A lack of proper security was the reason he was able to pull that off. Same with the school shootings. But to be clear, I am not against stricter restrictions on bump stocks or such type devices.

- - - Updated - - -

Holy shit, how can you even live like that, i mean watching over your shoulder all the time? Look behind you they are out to get you!

Seriously noone wants you dead. Just stop with the paranoia.

Do you wear your seat belt when driving? Or have smoke alarms in your apartment or house? If so, is that paranoia of something bad happening?

[bladeXcrasher]

Couple more former "good guys with guns". $25k bail when arrested and charged with murder, insanity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime...az_most&wpmk=1

[Ghostpanther]

Couple more former "good guys with guns". $25k bail when arrested and charged with murder, insanity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime...az_most&wpmk=1

I would not call them good guys. Good guys do not commit murder over a damn mattress. :P

[Ivanstone]

The conclusion of the study is what you failed to see, or is that on purpose?

And now your real motive becomes clear. Since you are not a US citizen, your opinion on this matter weighs a lot less, considering you have no input into our system of laws. Being the most powerful nation on earth in both terms of economics and military, the world knows who is the leader.

Having a low estimate for self defense (in terms of the need for?) sounds like a good thing. How would that be appalling? The odds are extremely low in the whole range of causes of dying to have a need to use self defense. The important thing is, we have the right to choose how within the law.

The conclusion of the research is more research is required.

My opinion of US social is problems is that you're a major trading partner and I'd rather not have you guys killing each other. And quite frankly, widespread gun use in the US partially stems from white people wanting to keep themselves safe from black people.

Its appalling because self defense incidents occurring as often as it does implies widespread crime is happening. Just because it was stopped doesn't mean there wasn't an attempt.

[Kodaline]

I ought to do an AMA with my bump stock.

[misterpuk]

Ought to throw that contraption in the trash.

Look, I'm not for banning them or anything - but they're just the dumbest damned things.

Only things they're good for is putting excessive wear on your rifle and wasting ammo.

[Shadowferal]

Holy shit, how can you even live like that, i mean watching over your shoulder all the time? Look behind you they are out to get you! Seriously noone wants you dead. Just stop with the paranoia.

It's not paranoia. It's merely being vigilant. Refer to Ben Franklin for the quote.