Patch 5.2 PTR Mage Changes

[jtmzac]

So Priest, Paladin, Hunter, Warrior, etc?

No idea since I only know mages. I have yet to ever get a second toon past level 60.

[Polarthief]

No idea since I only know mages. I have yet to ever get a second toon past level 60.

Priest: All 3 are really fun and good spells that can heal and/or damage (Two are auto healing and damage, one is either or, all 3 are great AoE spells)
Paladin: A heal that hits 5 enemies or an attack that heals 5 allies, an AoE effect that heals and damages (and slows in 5.2), and a 10s "DoT" that deals increasing Damage or Healing (depends on who you use it on)
Hunter: All three are an AoE of sorts; never really tested them though, but Glaive Toss I know is used on CD.
Warrior: DAMAGING COOLDOWN ABILITY (something Fire would kill for...), another damaging cooldown ability, and Storm Bolt which is EXACTLY like pre-MoP Deep Freeze: Stuns targets (as well as deals 100% weapon damage). Deals 4x the damage on an unstunnable target.

All 4 classes got some pretty good abilities (Hunter's kinda got shafted, but not like us, and they're fixing Powershot in 5.2 last I checked). Druids got some NICE cooldowns/passive for L90. Warlock got 100% mobility from one of theirs, so... yeah, no arguments there. DKs got PvP stuff, but at least it's not an ANNOYANCE like the Mage ones are. Shamans got some unique ones; they have one that empowers their Unleashed elements, one that buffs their Totem pets, and one that's a cast time damaging attack that randomly increases a secondary stat (like proccing Windsong). Rogues also kinda got shafted, but Shuriken Toss is being buffed massively in 5.2, and they're changing the others IIRC. Monks have a damaging cooldown, a tornado thing that heals and damages, and a passive that makes Roll heal allies and damage enemies if you pass by them.

We just got royally fucked when it came to the "ULTIMATE" talents.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent Check the Priest, Paladin, Hunter, and Warrior ones especially, though Shamans and Druids are good to check too. Just compare what they got to what we got.

[jtmzac]

I have wanted a proper stun for a while now... (apart from deep freeze)

Our talents do sound terrible compared to what you outlined.

[Polarthief]

I have wanted a proper stun for a while now... (apart from deep freeze)

Our talents do sound terrible compared to what you outlined.

I would honestly and truthfully trade with DKs in a heartbeat, ASSUMING our MP5 (for Arcane) and DPS (for all 3) were buffed across the board to make up for not having them (since they're balanced around making us competitive... Well, IW not so much). I'd gladly have a primarily-useless-for-raiding talent tier than one that just flat out ruins your whole experience.

Edit: I forgot to mention, people look at my talents and go "OMG SO FUCKING OP, I'D TRADE WITH YOU IMMEDIATELY!" without knowing that our DPS is RELIANT on them. They don't realize that they aren't really a choice, it's more or less "how do you want to RESTRICT yourself in the fight? Annoyance of Invocation, Fully restrict movement with Rune of Power, or hold back your raid by pulling non-competitive DPS using IW?". They aren't meant to "buff" our DPS, they're purely made to restrict us in one way or another. That's like putting Wheatley in GLaDOS to make her not as psychotic and murderous. (Portal 2 spoiler for anyone curious without clicking) They apparently see us as "too powerful" without being restricted I suppose.

[jtmzac]

Has anyone else noticed the ilvl 5.2 shoulders from shado-pan assault cost gold instead of vp?

I think it's a nice reward for getting to exalted with them. It is a bit odd that only cloth dps get two shoulders and every other combination just gets one.

The vp trinket will be very nice if they don't change it.

[Deleted]

DPS typically isn't a flat line, especially for a spec like arcane. When you decide to end the test (in relation to how it lines up with cooldowns) will have an impact on the final DPS number.


That only covers 5 items. Whether the rest of your slots consist of the pre-made 463 blues, the PvP vendor gear, or 2/2 upgraded ilvl 517 heroic pieces copied over from live will have a big impact how impressive those numbers are.

My mage was 489 ilvl when I transfered it on PTR.

Yes, I was able to maintain 90k+ dps on raid dummys too, there's no RNG involved, you see a little bump when you use the AP/AT macro, but that's barely noticeable when you've been dpsing the dummy for 7/8 minutes.

Its not possible to have accurate numbers on bosses because of the scaling down to 480 and the "wipe buff", but I was always top damage with another mage doing 100K+ easy.
Here's the fun part : The PTR still had the currently bugged "Invo stops your mana regen completly" instead of the "Invo stops 50% of your mana regen" that should be the right one.

So yeah, I too, am saying that on the PTR, arcane is even stronger than on live right now, with better QoL.

(This was done with the "old" Invo/Haste playstyle, burning down to ~30% then evo back up)

Now, the only thing that may have the potential to change this is Invocation making us loose stacks, but we can't test it ATM, and I don't this it'll make the numbers drop significantly.

TL;DR : Arcane is even more stronger on PTR than on live, with some QoL improvements.

[Deleted]

So does anyone has the latest changes for mage's in 5.2? ( up do date ).

Thanks

[Polarthief]

Has anyone else noticed the ilvl 5.2 shoulders from shado-pan assault cost gold instead of vp?

I think it's a nice reward for getting to exalted with them. It is a bit odd that only cloth dps get two shoulders and every other combination just gets one.

The vp trinket will be very nice if they don't change it.

Exalted? I didn't see any exalted rewards .-.; Mind giving me a source for said items?

The trinket being Passive Int on procc Haste? Not bad, but I'd prefer that 522 LotC with the 100% Crit for 4s trinket :P

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 05:15 AM ----------

So does anyone has the latest changes for mage's in 5.2? ( up do date ).

Thanks

Mage:
- Rune of Power nerfed from 100% Mana Regen to 75%
- Invocation changed drastically. Was 40s duration for 25% more damage. Is now 60s duration for 15% more damage, as well as halving the cast/tick period time of Evocate and fully removing the cooldown from Evocate (down from 10s) (Huge QoL buff, buff to it on long fights, nerf on short fights).
-----Glyph of Evocate now heals 20% of your health down from 40% for Invocation (not a nerf because we cast them twice as fast and no longer have a CD on it too).
- Scorch removed from talents; given to Fire as Baseline.
- Blazing Speed is now where Scorch used to be, on Tier 1 (L15)
-----Blazing Speed is back to being a 25s cooldown, 150% sprint for 1.5s, and can be used at will. (The only change from live is Tier 1 down from Tier 2, and can be triggered at will instead of when you take a non-ranged attack).
- New Tier 2 (L30) talent, Flameglow. Gives you a flat damage reduction equal to 20% of your spellpower (If you have 10k spellpower, you reduce all damage you take by up to 2000). Caps at 30% reduction
- Counterspell blanket silence removal has been reverted. It now still silences.
-----2p PvP set no longer reduces the cooldown of Counterspell unless it successfully interrupts a spell.
- Ice Floes is now a 45s cooldown (down from 60s).
- Greater Invisibility is now a 1.5m cooldown (down from 2.5m)
- Cold Snap nerf reverted (Proposed 15% HP down from 30%. Was reverted and is now being unchanged for the time being)
- Deep Freeze back up to 5s (from 4s). Glyph reduces by 1s as well as brings it off the GCD.

Fire:
- Scorch removed from talents; given to Fire as Baseline (HUGE buff as we no longer have to choose between PoM for better Combustions and Scorch for Mobility).
- Glyph of Fire Blast changed to Glyph of Inferno Blast (Fire only), and it now increases the targets that your DoTs spread to by 1.
- Inferno Blast now spreads Ignite, Pyro, and Combustion to 3 targets (4 when glyphed).

Frost:
- Freeze doesn't do damage and only proccs FoF effects when it roots targets. To compensate, all spells that procc FoF have their chance to procc increased.
- Frostbolt Debuff no longer gives damage to Frostbolt (only Waterbolt and Ice Lance). To compensate, Frostbolt is increased by 25% (also slightly fixing the scaling issue).
- Scorch removed from talents, reducing Frost's mobility choices.

Arcane:
*Note: Arcane is constantly being changed, and I doubt we've seen the end of Arcane changes. Do expect more in the near future*
- Scorch removed from talents, effectively removing the "Scorchweaving" rotation.
- Arcane Charges stack up to 4, down from 6.
-----The newest information from GC says that charges will grant 35% Damage at a 100% increase mana cost, down from the PTR's 50% Damage/150% mana cost.
- Invocation has an additional effect only for Arcane. It causes Evocate to grant the Arcane Mage 10% mana per tick (and on use), and is increased by 25% per Arcane Charge. It also consumes your Arcane Charges in the process.

[jtmzac]

Exalted? I didn't see any exalted rewards .-.; Mind giving me a source for said items?

The trinket being Passive Int on procc Haste? Not bad, but I'd prefer that 522 LotC with the 100% Crit for 4s trinket :P

http://ptr.wowdb.com/factions/1435-shado-pan-assault

All the shoulders require exalted. As for them costing gold well I learned that from seeing it on the ptr.

Sometime in the last 24 hours the npc called "Supplier Bao" in bleak hollow (51.4, 45.8) on the isle of the thunder was updated to have the shado-pan assault vp items.

[Polarthief]

http://ptr.wowdb.com/factions/1435-shado-pan-assault

All the shoulders require exalted. As for them costing gold well I learned that from seeing it on the ptr.

Sometime in the last 24 hours the npc called "Supplier Bao" in bleak hollow (51.4, 45.8) on the isle of the thunder was updated to have the shado-pan assault vp items.

Ahh okay; the PTR DB for Wowhead is buggy then

Also, all the items but the Shoulders require VP, right? *wished they all cost gold as he wants to play Fire sooner >.>*

As for the trinket, you were referring to the Passive Int, on Procc Haste, right? Kinda eh IMO. Lazy actually.

Furthermore, a repeat LotC (that also proccs from DoTs only, knowing how much Frost loves its DoTs) AND a repeat Sha Trinket... Kinda sad IMO :\

[jtmzac]

Ahh okay; the PTR DB for Wowhead is buggy then

Also, all the items but the Shoulders require VP, right? *wished they all cost gold as he wants to play Fire sooner >.>*

As for the trinket, you were referring to the Passive Int, on Procc Haste, right? Kinda eh IMO. Lazy actually.

Furthermore, a repeat LotC (that also proccs from DoTs only, knowing how much Frost loves its DoTs) AND a repeat Sha Trinket... Kinda sad IMO :\

Yeah the wowhead ptr db isn't quite right in some places. e.g. some of the tier doesn't have class requirements yet. Wowdb was also listing stuff wrong not long ago. I've been using the dungeon journal and looking at vendors in-game for definite info.

The gear you can buy at each rep level is:
Neutral: Neck
Friendly: Bracer, Ring, Trinket
Honoured: Gloves, Legs, Cloak
Revered: Chest, Waist
Exalted: Shoulders

There currently isn't a VP Head or Boots. The VP costs are the same as live except for the shoulders which cost 800g at neutral rep without the guild discount.

Breath of the Hydra - Is just LotC. The only noticable difference is the proc is double the Int for half the duration. It's still triggered by dots.

Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault - This is basically EoT but the duration of the proc has been halved but the amount of haste hasn't been increased to compensate. Triggered by harmful spell hits.

Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance - This is a new trinket with passive crit and an Int proc triggered by spell critical hits.

Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen - Another new trinket with passive Int and has a proc that gives 100% critical strike rating for 4 seconds. Triggered by harmful spell hits.

Wushoolay's Final Choice - Another new trinket with passive hit and proc that gives 1333 Int every 2 seconds for 20 seconds. Triggered by harmful spell hits. Not sure how this actually works as the way its written doesn't really explain it.

[LocNess]

Arcane Charges now 35% instead of 50%? Maybe I can stay fire now for the time being.

[Rogge]

Arcane Charges now 35% instead of 50%? Maybe I can stay fire now for the time being.

The mana cost is also +100% per stack instead of +150%, which means a lot less evocating. A solid damage loss nevertheless.

Seen several reports that fire/frost can't last for 60 seconds without evocating though, which means invocation is worse than it appears (60s duration +15% damage).

Slightly pessimistic..

[Polarthief]

Seen several reports that fire/frost can't last for 60 seconds without evocating though, which means invocation is worse than it appears (60s duration +15% damage).

Slightly pessimistic..

Because PTR atm is -100% MP5 instead of the intended -50% MP5. Gotta wait on the next build to test it.

[Soulstrike]

snip

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94513-wus...s-final-choice trinket works just like one from icc so if it has icd of 90s lets say

average int is just 1333*10/2=average int 6665*20/90=1481average per proc int

Arcane Charges now 35% instead of 50%? Maybe I can stay fire now for the time being.

what do you mean "stay fire now"??? arcane is already pulling ahead of fire?? :/

but fear not my friend fire might make a come back once we replace alot of crit gears from t15 stuff

either way arcane will be strong even with 15% damage nerf(buff to mana cost thank god)

[Polarthief]

what do you mean "stay fire now"??? arcane is already pulling ahead of fire?? :/

Um... Where have you been the last few months?

[jtmzac]

I've been wondering what sort of stats we would be getting from bis 5.2 gear for a while now so I put together a very rough bis list for frost to compare to the current bis gear. By rough I mean I just picked what I thought was best itemised and reforged it. I would simply link the wowhead comparison but its so big that it doesn't work.

Current BiS gear gives:
16171 Intellect
26584 spellpower (Int*1.155+weapon spellpower)
10752, 25.29% Haste
4107 Crit

5.2 BiS gives:
18205 Intellect
31105 Spellpower (Int*1.155+weapon spellpower)
13881, 32.65% Haste
9556 Crit

The difference:
+2034 Intellect
+4521 Spellpower
+3129 Haste
+5449 Crit

There's an expected increase to intellect and haste but what is most surprising is the enormous increase to crit. Once you do the math even using frost armor the crit works out to be 32.6%. Way over the crit cap.

The haste works out at:
49.0% 7%,5%
93.7% 7%,5%,30%
78.8% 7%,5%,20%
132.5% 7%,5%,20%,30%

Just in case someone doesn't know I'll explain what each of the percentages are from:
7% is frost armour
5% is the raid buff
20% is the troll racial, berserking
30% is bloodlust/heroism/time warp

I used Breath of the Hydra and Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance as the trinkets so there's no haste procs to include in calculations. They do proc for a very respectable 16.5k intellect together which will give a nice burst with your opener.

I know I based it on the least played spec but it gives a rough idea as to how much more haste arcane will get as well.

[Deleted]

Btw, has anyone done testing for Fire on the PTR? How's it compare against other classes?

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 12:31 AM ----------



Heh, yeah, on live for two more weeks.

RoP will be 100% pointless and unused for Fire and Frost come 5.2

"Cast a 2-3s spell every 60s, or cast a global that forces you to stand still every 60s". I wonder which one I'm going to pick... XD

They really, and I mean, REALLY fucked RoP over.

Seriously they are taking care only about Arcane and Invo now, they don't even count Frost and Fire and RoP/IW.... These guys are braindead if you ask me. How come they make 1 of their "useful-for-every-spec" talents be God for 1 spec, and suck hard for other? I don't know really, patch is hitting really soon , and they don't have a clear concept of what are they doing, if it keeps like that when it hits live I'd rather reroll to my Death Knight.

[mrgreenthump]

5.2 BiS gives:
18205 Intellect
31105 Spellpower (Int*1.155+weapon spellpower)
13881, 32.65% Haste
9556 Crit
937 Mastery

There's an expected increase to intellect and haste but what is most surprising is the enourmous increase to crit. Once you do the math even using frost armor the crit works out to be 27.6%, only just short of the crit cap.

Not really surpricing after we look at the gear.. though for trolls, we will prolly try to stop stacking haste at 10k rating as frost and arcane. It just looses so much weighting after that point..

[LocNess]

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94513-wus...s-final-choice trinket works just like one from icc so if it has icd of 90s lets say

average int is just 1333*10/2=average int 6665*20/90=1481average per proc int



what do you mean "stay fire now"??? arcane is already pulling ahead of fire?? :/

but fear not my friend fire might make a come back once we replace alot of crit gears from t15 stuff

either way arcane will be strong even with 15% damage nerf(buff to mana cost thank god)

There is nothing wrong with Fire as long as you have a high enough item level. Combustion isn't near as much of an issue as it was at the nerf when most Mages where still hovering around 480ilevel or lower (besides the top players). Once you get 495+ IIRC Fire is viable again. Yeah, Arcane will win on some fights, but Fire will win on others.