Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Jessicka]

Come on Jessicka read my post properly!!! The whole thing is saying fix the dam mechanics and pet AI, if it was fixed then then GoSup wouldnt be so fucked over by them and 99% of the reason people take sac. The talents are ment to be a preferential choice and you know what they are atm, if you prefer to do less dps and enjoy bad pet ai and encounter mechanics fucking you over pick GoSup if you prefer not to have to deal with that pick GoSac, this is the ultimate irony, since the whole point of the talent system was to allow freedom of choice of playstyle with minimal impact on overall dps performance, and by god its working as intended much to blizz's embaressment since we are all choosing not to put up with the terrible pet AI and bad mechanics and avoid them. They need to fix these not destroy GoSac as you said we're not the only class that uses pets

If it was all about QoL, you'd see Demonologists take it. They don't. People wouldn't play BM whos pets make up more of a Hunter's damage than a Demonologist, and yet they play it, principally because it sims out best. All it's about is damage, nothing else.

Now I agree encounter issues with pets need to be taken much more seriously than they are at present, but that doesn't change the fact that even with all things being equal, people will still demand "their favourite" be marginally better for whatever reason: The post earlier about Sac being more susceptible to errors in play and movement for example, presumably in order to vindicate their choice to any doubters. I believe it's for that reason that they tuned Sac to play that bit better because by and large, encounter issues with pets once you know them, can generally be managed through and worked around.

I think at this point though, that the improved QoL from Sac that people are demanding and apparently so love takes enough pressure off the player that there is less loss, especially combined with KJC, than needs to be compensated for by better performance and so they're fully justified in reining it back a bit and letting pets do that bit more to make up for the known issues with AI. Right now, as others have said, there is no downside to Sac for Aff and Destro: You get more damage and better QoL - I don't think that's fair on players who want to use their pets, and believe me, they do exist.

Personally, I would actually like to see Service perform that bit better than the flat damage options, there's just no good reason why a DPS cooldown which requires good use of timing should perform worse than something that requires no further management (Sup), or straight up less work altogether (Sac).

[jason1975]

As far as I can tell Shadowburn is still nerfed on the PTR, don't hesitate to remind GC on the topic of the US forums

Is it not returning an additional ember on a killing blow?

I haven't remembered to test this.

[Aruotnof]

As far as I can tell Shadowburn is still nerfed on the PTR, don't hesitate to remind GC on the topic of the US forums

Good point! I hope that he doesn´t forget about this!

[Grizelda]

I don't get it. Make the other two choices desirable, don't ruin the one that is.
Good timing? Every two minutes to line up with DS is good timing? I do feel that demo is a more challenging spec but don't over estimate the difficulty of lining up two CD's.
All due respect, I think you just like to argue.

No downside to using GoSac? It's not rocket science by any means but I need to be in position where I can Havoc that guy at just the right time and still be in position to SB that guy at just the right time, procs up, embers ready seems more challenging then every two minutes hit that button.

If you mean the challenge is in anticipating bugs to pets then yes I suppose you are correct.

Pets aside...Destro was only desirable because of its clever cleave and good use of the mastery stat.

Want us to use pets?

Whatev. I'll use em.

No need to ruin its niche and make it good at nothing. If we don't get the extra SB back on execute we won't even be good at 5 mans.

[Jessicka]

I don't get it. Make the other two choices desirable, don't ruin the one that is.

Well, by all accounts posted by Seiru, they're just reining it back but be a shade behind because it was pushing Affliction far too far ahead - we can see that in real data from live.

Good timing? Every two minutes to line up with DS is good timing? I do feel that demo is a more challenging spec but don't over estimate the difficulty of lining up two CD's.
All due respect, I think you just like to argue.

Sure, macro them together, it works fine. It just doesn't make sense that you gain nothing by getting it right, but loose a lot by getting it wrong.

No downside to using GoSac? It's not rocket science by any means but I need to be in position where I can Havoc that guy at just the right time and still be in position to SB that guy at just the right time, procs up, embers ready seems more challenging then every two minutes hit that button.

If you mean the challenge is in anticipating bugs to pets then yes i suppose you are correct.

Havoc I regard as a slightly separate issue, I even tweeted GC about it, he said they were aware it was a part of the problem but it's still not been addressed on PTR :\

[PickleballAce]

I'm not even sure where this sense that pet management is difficult is coming from.

Personally, binding my pet attacks was literally the first thing I did when learning how to keybind, and the binds exist in a location that I feel is pretty intuitive to me (Shift+Mousewheel Up being pet attack and Shift+Mousewheel down being pet recall). I've never found a need to make use of the assist function, nor pet macros. I've never had a problem controlling my pets so I think I just never developed an understanding for this.

Just saying that on a personal level I refute the notion that disliking a pet has anything to do with so called "difficulty" in managing a pet. I think you're subtly trying to paint Sacrifice fans as being somewhat incompetent, Jessicka.

My reason for disliking pet mechanics exists primarily as a function of how they relate to how well Blizzard makes them function in combat....which is to say, "usually acceptable but occasionally disastrous".

Begging for us to be more reliant on pets is asking for us to be more susceptible to poor programming just to fulfill the way you expect to play the class. That said, if the differences between output are minor this is much ado about nothing. This is more a fundamental argument rather than numbers.

[Grizelda]

I'm sure there is a better, more detailed use of GoServ for each spec and individual fight. It doesn't seem like brain bender though.

Havoc I regard as a slightly separate issue, I even tweeted GC about it, he said they were aware it was a part of the problem but it's still not been addressed on PTR :\

Thanks for looking out for us.

[Deleted]

Man this thread is going fast.

Lining up a serviced Felguard to make him do the most he can is hard, lining up a Havoc to get of three fully buffed Shadowburns is hard too.

Although, using GoSac is just a flat DPS increase, nothing you need to do other than your rotation. Using GoServ as Demonology can be, and often will be, harder because you want to be close to melee range before you press it, you want atleast all your trinkets and/or your DS up and running to actually make the serviced Felguard do any significant damage.

And I think that due to the fact that most Affliction and Destruction warlocks use GoSac, all the time, makes the nerf even more "agonizing".

And getting embers ready for Havoc is rarely an issue, cause you know when Havoc is ready again, long before it's ready, and you hopefully know when that Havoc is going to come into play.

With that beign said, it really is a shame they are sort of butchering the only niche Destruction have, cleaving with GoSac. Although cleaving with GoSac will likely still outperform GoSup.

EDIT: Oh and I really should say: They NEED to fix bugs like using pets while fighting Elegon etc. for people, including me, to really be fine with playing with a minion.

[Apero]

I tryed the crit trinket on the ptr and shouldnt the duplicated dot ticks from malefic grasp use the snapshottet stats? Because the dots applied with 100% crit doesent crit when duplicated. Not sure if intended or bug. If bug, someone should write that in the us forums please.

Plus this trinket, it procced 4 times in a row , overwriting the procc. Then 6(!!) Minutes, not a god damn single procc. This system cant be intended. Is there a statement of ghostcrawler or something? I mean, if all the trinkets act like that, that would be a serious reason to quit, i dont like to have luck to do decent dps.

[Grizelda]

Although, using GoSac is just a flat DPS increase, nothing you need to do other than your rotation.

As opposed to having a buffed up (although retarded) pet do X% of my damage for me?

I'll give it to Demo. Definitely a more challenging spec. I play it. I like it. Not just because of pet useage but because of a 10-15 more reasons. I just liked the flavor of Destro and don't like being told I'm wrong for liking it.

[Deleted]

As opposed to having a buffed up (although retarded) pet do X% of my damage for me?

I'll give it to Demo. Definitely a more challenging spec. I play it. I like it. Not just because of pet useage but because of a 10-15 more reasons. I just liked the flavor of Destro and don't like being told I'm wrong for liking it.

Oh no, you're not wrong for liking it. I never said, I don't think anyone ever said that.

You're not wrong because you play the worst of the three speccs available.
You don't have to play the best spec with the best talents, unless you're aiming for super high ranks etc.
And if you play the best specc with the best talents to do the absolute most DPS you possibly can do that's fine and good if you enjoy that. But all other inferior options aren't wrong. If they were wrong, there wouldn't be any options.

And mind you, I love Destruction too! I've played it the entire expansion so far and it's not an easy specc to master, but not once did I feel I was beign/doing wrong for doing insane DPS compared to many other classes and speccs, or playing the worst Warlock specc.

[Depravitty]

I tryed the crit trinket on the ptr and shouldnt the duplicated dot ticks from malefic grasp use the snapshottet stats? Because the dots applied with 100% crit doesent crit when duplicated. Not sure if intended or bug. If bug, someone should write that in the us forums please.

Plus this trinket, it procced 4 times in a row , overwriting the procc. Then 6(!!) Minutes, not a god damn single procc. This system cant be intended. Is there a statement of ghostcrawler or something? I mean, if all the trinkets act like that, that would be a serious reason to quit, i dont like to have luck to do decent dps.

This system is very much INTENDED it is a PPM system(explained below) meaning that you can go extended periods without a proc or be extremely lucky and have retarded amounts as you mentioned first hand. All the current trinkets have this function say for one(?) so sadly you will have to get used to it.

PPM refers to the frequency with which certain effects can occur mostly passive item triggers. Procs usually have a percent chance that they can occur however if the rate of what triggers that effect is greatly increased these effects can be abused. As a result blizzard limits the number of times these effects can occur to a fixed number of times per minute.

As far as the dots not having 100% crit where you sure that you refreshed them within the 4sec window of the proc?

[Apero]

As far as the dots not having 100% crit where you sure that you refreshed them within the 4sec window of the proc?

Yeah, the regular dots had 100% crit, just the duplicated had my 11% critchance that my char has.

4 Soulswaps: Soulburn on 4 targets with 100% crit active is pretty insane btw, i should have used that trinket during the council hc raidtests

[Depravitty]

Yeah, the regular dots had 100% crit, just the duplicated had my 11% critchance that my char has.

Ah ok gotcha that is weird not sure if that is intended, but i do know that its not on the affliction Bis list and that might actually be why. So most likely not a bug just not meant to be an "awesome" trinket for affliction.

4 Soulswaps: Soulburn on 4 targets with 100% crit active is pretty insane btw, i should have used that trinket during the council hc raidtests

I think you need like the fastest fingers in the galaxy to pull that off in 4secs =P

[Blasphemyx]

I think you need like the fastest fingers in the galaxy to pull that off in 4secs =P

Gabbynator doesn't play warlock Depravity.

[Deleted]

well logically speaking, the duplicated dots shouldnt benefit from the applied 100% dots, as the dmg isnt generated by the dots but rather from MG which will only have the proc for 4 secs, however for those 4 secs, they should all crit, so you will only generate dmg as if they had your standard 11% critrate.

[Brusalk]

well logically speaking, the duplicated dots shouldnt benefit from the applied 100% dots, as the dmg isnt generated by the dots but rather from MG which will only have the proc for 4 secs, however for those 4 secs, they should all crit, so you will only generate dmg as if they had your standard 11% critrate.

Actually the wording on MG/DS implies that the dots should tick for 50% of whatever they would tick at if they were to normally tick.

Either it's a bug that the crit rate isn't the same for the dot ticks generated by MG/DS, or they intentionally made it that way so the trinket isn't completely ridiculous for affliction.

[Depravitty]

Actually the wording on MG/DS implies that the dots should tick for 50% of whatever they would tick at if they were to normally tick.

Either it's a bug that the crit rate isn't the same for the dot ticks generated by MG/DS, or they intentionally made it that way so the trinket isn't completely ridiculous for affliction.

I am more inclined to believe the second part of what you said, just that they didnt want the trink to be amazingly broken for affliction.

[Myzou]

So, out of curiosity, is sacrifice still going to be viable for destruction, or did the 10% nerf send supremacy a good chunk above it?

If it's just a 500-800 dps difference like it is on live, then I'll still grab sacrifice, just simply curious.

It's not a matter of not liking pets, for the people who attack those who like GoS in this thread (searching for the answer popped up quite a bit of responses with people attacking others for grabbing it), my second toon in vanilla is a lock. I just feel as destruction, my character would, well, cause destruction. Starting with their demon to boost their own powers.

[luckydevours]

Sacrifice performs worse than supremace for destro by a considerable margin, a spec that is already behind compared to affli, demo and most competitive specs of other classes. At least this is my impression at the PTR. At 20% additional damage the talent seemed almost equal in single target situations, but Blizzard thinks otherwise .