[Priest] 5.2 PTR notes

[DeiVias]

If only Yvaelle was designing shadow priests, a guy can dream.

[Deleted]

The shadow notes really dont tell me to resub xD now they removed phantism los priest gonna no where near as fun xD

[Yvaelle]

These changes to your ideas would be loveble if they got put in.
The DP change is a 12.5% damage increase comapred to live.

I think the point is that it would be possible to stack 5 orbs before a burst phase, particularly in PvE - but also in PvP - it matters a lot less in PvP because our burst is now an interruptable, knockbackable, cc'able 6 second channel rather than instant cast spell - so while it's possible to build up almost 2 at once, (a) our burst itself is much easier to control now (especcially the second one in the series), (b) it's a waste to build up orbs when you have MB crits potentially giving you double orbs and generating a sixth (useless) orb. So in terms of damage, in pvp or pve, risking a sixth orb is a huge damage loss - for a 2/3rds burst gain that is predictable. Generally even in PvP your going to want to use your burst more often than that - the same way while destro locks Can build up 4 burning embers and throw 5 chaos bolts in 10 seconds - you almost NEVER see that occur, unless you are very confident you can wait that long and pull that off (which is an interesting choice, that I want to encourage for all classes).

I think the cast time on Mind Blast, when it's a critical builder to keep on cooldown, is problematic both in pve and pvp - stopping us from building orbs shouldn't be the way to control a spriest's burst - it should be about interrupting the burst itself (hence, Channeled and cast time on finishers, rather than instant DP which is uncontrollable/counterable).

Divine Insight makes your mind blast come off cooldown and be an instant cast - it has nothing to do with mind spike. Further, since mind spike isn't part of our dps priorities except if you take the FDCL talent - which shouldn't be mandatory and doesn't need a buff - making mind spike reduce the cooldown on mind blast is a bad change. Fixing Divine Insight when mind blast is instant is necessary however (because thats what DI does currently) - so making it give you a guarenteed crit, while still scaling wth crit chance, is a good change for it I think.

Your DP suggestion is probably better ya, a 6 second channel is extremely long, a 3 second one might be more appropriate - maybe a 4 or 5 would be a happy medium though - I like that the channel is longer than mind flay to make it feel more distinct and powerful.

Ya the Psychic Horror change is what it really should be, I don't think they are going to want to do that though until they see how we are in PvP in 5.2, so it's maybe something for 5.3 or 5.4 - have to wait for that :/

15% of max HP isn't that big of a heal nowadays - and it's a heal that is completely avoidable by having your healer not dispel VT while you are trying to burst someone down: I don't think that's an unreasonable request. 10% of max hp as a shield (40k) isn't a very effective deterrent, partly because its dispellable, partly because if it doesnt smart heal the kill target - it will shield but not take damage and then fade out (effectively doing nothing), and is dispellable (which purge spam is very common on kill targets - which means it would likely be dispelled without even being noticed).

[Saphyron]

I think the point is that it would be possible to stack 5 orbs before a burst phase, particularly in PvE - but also in PvP - it matters a lot less in PvP because our burst is now an interruptable, knockbackable, cc'able 6 second channel rather than instant cast spell - so while it's possible to build up almost 2 at once, (a) our burst itself is much easier to control now (especcially the second one in the series), (b) it's a waste to build up orbs when you have MB crits potentially giving you double orbs and generating a sixth (useless) orb. So in terms of damage, in pvp or pve, risking a sixth orb is a huge damage loss - for a 2/3rds burst gain that is predictable. Generally even in PvP your going to want to use your burst more often than that - the same way while destro locks Can build up 4 burning embers and throw 5 chaos bolts in 10 seconds - you almost NEVER see that occur, unless you are very confident you can wait that long and pull that off (which is an interesting choice, that I want to encourage for all classes).
I see where you are going with this, tbh if a mb crit generates a second orb i do hope that this would be put in as well.

I think the cast time on Mind Blast, when it's a critical builder to keep on cooldown, is problematic both in pve and pvp - stopping us from building orbs shouldn't be the way to control a spriest's burst - it should be about interrupting the burst itself (hence, Channeled and cast time on finishers, rather than instant DP which is uncontrollable/counterable).
That is tru a isntant mb would do wonder to our move and dps rotation witch is kinda crap to none existant

Divine Insight makes your mind blast come off cooldown and be an instant cast - it has nothing to do with mind spike. Further, since mind spike isn't part of our dps priorities except if you take the FDCL talent - which shouldn't be mandatory and doesn't need a buff - making mind spike reduce the cooldown on mind blast is a bad change. Fixing Divine Insight when mind blast is instant is necessary however (because thats what DI does currently) - so making it give you a guarenteed crit, while still scaling wth crit chance, is a good change for it I think.
When looking into it yearh. i just think that it might be slightly too op but i defiently like the idea.

Your DP suggestion is probably better ya, a 6 second channel is extremely long, a 3 second one might be more appropriate - maybe a 4 or 5 would be a happy medium though - I like that the channel is longer than mind flay to make it feel more distinct and powerful.
lets compensate then. 3sec channelled but duration will not be reduced by haste and can benefit from mastery

15% of max HP isn't that big of a heal nowadays - and it's a heal that is completely avoidable by having your healer not dispel VT while you are trying to burst someone down: I don't think that's an unreasonable request. 10% of max hp as a shield (40k) isn't a very effective deterrent, partly because its dispellable, partly because if it doesnt smart heal the kill target - it will shield but not take damage and then fade out (effectively doing nothing), and is dispellable (which purge spam is very common on kill targets - which means it would likely be dispelled without even being noticed).
with the change to a 10% shield was that it was also a smart shield such as it put a shield on the current lowest health team member. have to remember while properly not gonna happen there is a chance of the 15% heal will overheal up to 100%. so a shield in that matter more often than not would be better. my oppinion ofc.

few responses to an awesome post

[Blachshma]

While I do like the idea for Sanctuary, it would never go in, since it muddies the waters of distinction a bit between Disc and Holy. Holy is a reactive healer and Disc is about proactive mitigation. They won't give Holy damage mitigation abilities, it steps on Disc's toes too much.

I don't think you could always call disc a proactive mitigation healer, at least not excusively. Sure, PW:S and DA were huge tools in their disposals, but it wasn't until Spirit Shell that Disc priests completley abandoned reactive healing aside of attonement, and had enough tools to carry an entire encounter with mitigation.

Proactive healing should never have been the main healing method, but more of niche tools to help on high damage phases. What's happening in WoW this tier is a disaster. Absorbs are so strong, that disc priests (and to a lesser extent, holy pallies) shine the most. Let's ignore the fact it annoys the other healing specs of having pretty much nothing to do (especially in 10 man), it also completley ruins the challenge and fun in raiding. Take Windlord for example, after the adds die, he does the Blades thing that hits for a load of damage. What's the point of this damage if its pretty much prevented by Spirit Shell. And you don't even need a good disc priest for that, just a medicore one will do the trick. It allows for too forgiving gameplay, ignoring game mechanics.

This is how it should be:

Holy should excel at pure healing, from HoTs to instants and raid cds, but have little in the ways of absorbs, and some utility.
Disc should do less healing than holy, but have more absorbs for crucial moments and the ability to heal while dealing damage + utility.

Making Sanctuay a utility will not step on disc's toes, because disc should NOT be a primarily mitigation healer, but rather have the tools to mitigate at crucial moments. Otherwise, it is not a healer, but more of preventer, and there is no such role in WoW. I don't know if Blizzard totally understands that now, seeing that while they nerfed disc's absorbs by quite a bit, they did not do much for the "healing" side of disc, especially the AoE side. I totally understand disc priests who say spamming PoH all day is just not fun.

On a side note, this tier proved to be a nightmare for classes that are nothing but raw hps. Druids saw a decline, Monks were doing well just because of them being OP at first, but declined after the nerfes. Holy priests - sadly nobody even plays those anymore - other than fun gameplay, they have little to offer, and they are too limited by mana constraints and chakra. The classes that really did well are discs and pallies (for obvious reasons) as well as shammies who bring lots of utility and were basically there to pop a mana totem for discs's rapture. To me, that was a very poor tier for healers overall.

[Deleted]

At first I was like, "yeah that is true, proactive is disc's job" and dismissing the sanctuary idea, but when the damage is predictable instead of single target RNG (if PoH isn't viable, haha, that's a joke, laugh) only then they have a problem. So I agree a purely proactive healer isn't good design. We saw some fights where the proactive healing was very much imba, such as infest LK PWS spam. I played an other healing class back then, one who wasn't very viable on that fight. The problem lies rooted within mitigation-based healing. It should be a niche, a minor part of a spec, and there's a better mechanic which our HoT-based healing friends will prefer to heal with: increasing health (ancestral fortitude). It provides the same buffer, but works in synergy with their HoTs no matter if you're overgeared or doing LFR or progressing with absorbs barely holding. Blizzard seems to get the message here: they're removing the AoE healing component from disc to a standard where it won't be a no brainer to cast it proactive except with spirit shell. If you do LFR in future, you only need to track when the dpriest casts SS and then you can go AFK for 20 sec. Furthermore you'll need to track who's being shielded (tanks usually), esp as a HoT-based class. But its better than all the mass absorbs, esp in 25m.

Comic found here. Its not about priest, but I found it funny and appropriate since it sums up my sentiment. Just imagine its a priest with levitate :P



At least Blizz could also laugh at it.

[Irielle]

This thread caught my attention because of a rather frustrating, yet looking back hilarous Scarlet Halls run I did.

It was a pug...we are on the last boss where you MUST interrupt Mass Res. Anyway...every class there is able to do so besides myself. (I am a BE so I had ONE arcane torrent). After about 4 wipes to no interrupts, I got pretty frustrated and perhaps not so nicely asked them to interrupt for the 500th time.

I was told "You do it, you have arcane torrent". Ah yes, my 2 min cd.

I was kicked from the group because I "wouldnt" interrupt. Got to love pugs.

[Miko]

This thread caught my attention because of a rather frustrating, yet looking back hilarous Scarlet Halls run I did.

It was a pug...we are on the last boss where you MUST interrupt Mass Res. Anyway...every class there is able to do so besides myself. (I am a BE so I had ONE arcane torrent). After about 4 wipes to no interrupts, I got pretty frustrated and perhaps not so nicely asked them to interrupt for the 500th time.

I was told "You do it, you have arcane torrent". Ah yes, my 2 min cd.

I was kicked from the group because I "wouldnt" interrupt. Got to love pugs.

Interrupt or not, how did you die?

[Venaliter]

gc listen to the wow community. Everywhere you go in the forums, arena junkies.mmoc. disc for pvp is still way behind. Plz fix

I disagree. Definitely see a lot of priests wanting more, more, more buffs but others who think the changes are appropriate.

That's all folks. That's all priests get in PvP. I'm done with WoW for the rest of the expansion.

[zito]

- We are reverting the nerf to Body and Soul. It will stay at 4 sec duration.
- Holy Fire will be instant baseline. We agree it is an unnecessary nerf to remove that 5.1 functionality, but we also like the range increase from the 5.2 version of the glpyh, so just removing Holy Fire's cast time seems like the right move. Solace will still be positioned as an upgraded Holy Fire that generates mana.
- We understand that reverting the Devouring Plague change (restoring it to its 5.1 functionality) is a nerf to Shadow mastery, but overall we are still sympathetic to the arguments that losing burst from Devouring Plague is a negative in PvE and doesn't really solve the PvP burst problem (which is more about holding procs). We haven't adjusted Shadow's PvE damage yet in any case.

Yea keep reverting nerfs every day after you realized you fucked up.

I dare you.

[VanillaO]

Ok, I am not the best shadow priest in the world, but I have to ask the smarter folk. With how Shadow's dots work, is an extension of the dot from the 2 piece while you're already reapplying dots effective? Like is it a DPS +/- or nothing? Is there somewhere that explains all of this for me?

[Deleted]

[Danner]

I saw "Body and Soul Reverted" and I was like



The rest of that post was just extra candy.

[soulyouth]

We haven't adjusted Shadow's PvE damage yet in any case.

This gives me hope, not much, but a sliver.
The problems the class has atm I voiced on the mop beta, but was told nope your wrong.

[Deleted]

Most people said SP design sucked in Beta, but blizz can easily say "no it does not". Anyway, they are finally hinting that SP damage might be too low "We haven't adjusted Shadow's PvE damage yet in any case." But as always it can be interpreted in any way. So overall no real change for SP and nothing to look forward. At best we'll get a damage boost, but we'll still be a spec with half-assed mechanics.

[soulyouth]

Yeah, during the beta I was told by a Dev that they don't take feedback on how a class feels to play, what kinda of bullshit is that, shadow used to flow so smooth

[Adelphia]

If only Yvaelle was designing shadow priests, a guy can dream.

Those changes are very tasty I must admit.

[Deleted]

seems they heard our concerns about stat scaling and chosen to ignore it.

hopefully their;
'We haven't adjusted Shadow's PvE damage yet in any case.'
will actually mean a buff and not a nerf, it's kinda hard to tell what they're thinking these days in regards to spriests

EDIT; I'm aware our secondary stat scale terribly. Anyone have numbers on how we scale with int / spell power compared to other classes though? I noticed the other day I have significantly more spell power than our other raiders - could this be the reason they're holding off scaling changes?

[Deleted]

seems they heard our concerns about stat scaling and chosen to ignore it.

hopefully their;
'We haven't adjusted Shadow's PvE damage yet in any case.'
will actually mean a buff and not a nerf, it's kinda hard to tell what they're thinking these days in regards to spriests

Damage control. Hear lots of same criticism, and using authority instead of arguments to refute it or put it on hold (whereas the game isn't on hold except for about 100 top guilds, but the point here is that then the fixes were also already too late).

EDIT; I'm aware our secondary stat scale terribly. Anyone have numbers on how we scale with int / spell power compared to other classes though? I noticed the other day I have significantly more spell power than our other raiders - could this be the reason they're holding off scaling changes?

Here numbers http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20085458

[Deleted]

Damage control. Hear lots of same criticism, and using authority instead of arguments to refute it or put it on hold (whereas the game isn't on hold except for about 100 top guilds, but the point here is that then the fixes were also already too late).

Here numbers http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20085458

sad panda :<