What the 5.2 Warrior is lookin' like.

[meathead]

0.525% hps but meathead wouldn't tell you that as he likes to make thing look alot worse than they are, otherwise he would of put them on an equal scale.

hunters spirit bond can be used at any health level right?2nd wind only -35%,how hard is it to figure out?

"2nd wind will be down to 1.05% below -35%. Hunter's Spirit Bond, 2% every 2 seconds at any health level.hell even if they are equal in % healed,one kicks in at -35% and the other can be used on demand.see my point?"

maybe you should read what i wrote instead of talking shit.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 04:11 PM ----------

Since the talk is still hot here, has anyone tried how Arms feels on the PTR currently? Finally I tried it and... it feels strange, but not that bad.

They buffed the only ability on warriors rotation (slam) what you don't have time to use at all. I tried to fit it in many times and it would either force me to delay MS (what does more damage with 2-set bonus currently) or it would make me skip the cooldown of stormbolt, colossus smash or one overpower. If I get into the position of not getting colossus and not having a stormbolt ability or it being on cooldown, I can fit in 1 slam for the time being. So we ended up getting an ability buffed that has no real room on the basic rotation (at least outside recklessness that is), because when I tried to replace extra overpowers with slam, it had no real dps difference... One crits, the other doesn't. Well at least it works for reck burst, if nothing else.

The good thing is that I was overwhelming with rage, because nothing outside slam was spending it. So, extra heroic strikes now and then? Sure... Though I tried it with a different approach. I put overpower glyph on and started to cleave on single target. Because of the amount of rage you get now and the overpower uptime, my overpowers were closer to 30% on my total damage done, so using the glyph on single target with deadly calm+cleave seemed to increase my dps instead of dumping my rage to a HS on a similar way. So there was absolutely no loss on single target, but along the way you gained just a lot better 2 target dps.

Something tells me it can't go out like this. If it does, well... It allows you to stay on Protection Stance in PvP for the whole time a lot easier than now. Sweeping strikes with cleave + op combo got a lot stronger too.

Single target seems about the same in numbers for me on Live, but even more stable when comparing to a dummy. There is no waiting time on bad rng actually, what is a good thing in my book.

"Something tells me it can't go out like this. If it does, well... It allows you to stay on Protection Stance in PvP for the whole time a lot easier than now. Sweeping strikes with cleave + op combo got a lot stronger too."

why is this a bad thing?why does everyone seem to think warriors have to be punished for staying in d-stance?less rage from d-stance is the draw back.want more rage go battle or bersker,want less damage taken go d-stance.

[Requiel]

Speaking from a PvE perspective? I ask only because I was extremely curious how Arms PvE is shaping up. I loathe being at the mercy of RNG with Fury, and would love to swap back to Arms for PvE. But if the gap is going to remain as large as it is now, or the rotation is not enjoyable, I might be stuck as Fury .

yes what i said is from a pve prospective, but it's early PTR and its unrefined.

hunters spirit bond can be used at any health level right?2nd wind only -35%,how hard is it to figure out?
"2nd wind will be down to 1.05% below -35%. Hunter's Spirit Bond, 2% every 2 seconds at any health level.hell even if they are equal in % healed,one kicks in at -35% and the other can be used on demand.see my point?"
maybe you should read what i wrote instead of talking shit.

all I said is you make things look worse than what they are by saying 2nd's value as nerfed (1.05%) and spirit bond as unerfed and not putting it in HPS.

[TrollFu]

Hi I'm a full time Protection Warrior, just letting you guys know we exist and we're still kicking.

We're also Shield Slamming / Revenging on pull a bit harder. So that's cool.

The Shockwave nerf is a good excuse to use Bladestorm more. Bladestorm is very impressive in Protection Spec (Higher damage than all other specs). Pulling 20-30 mobs, popping CDs, and Bladestorming with stacked Vengeance is a good way to get 250-300kdps. Super big numbers are pretty rare for us so I always jump at the chance to do that

[Deleted]

Well, considering they nerf the damage of both revenge and shield slam (damage on pull really it's not an issue, I think), the absorb of Shield Barrier, and in many situations Shockwave, it's not a patch to look forward as prot.

Oh, they nerf Bladestorm too. No more 2h BS as prot.

[Kankipappa]

Speaking from a PvE perspective? I ask only because I was extremely curious how Arms PvE is shaping up. I loathe being at the mercy of RNG with Fury, and would love to swap back to Arms for PvE. But if the gap is going to remain as large as it is now, or the rotation is not enjoyable, I might be stuck as Fury .

TG Fury isn't actually that much of ahead currently. I don't care if the simulations say so, when in real world the performance is a lot smaller. SMF is quite different story again, but if you have to choose against TG Fury vs Arms, I would test it myself how it goes. There has been only like 1-2 fights where I can clearly pull more dps as TG Fury, but on the rest the bigger numbers falls on the clumsy burst playstyle.

For the numbers... Currently on my 497 ilvl I gear I can do around 75-80k dps sustained dummy dps as Arms, depending on the TFB procs. With priority being on cleave + OP while basically ditching slam in PTR, my dps is around 90k in there. So without optimal rotation and stormbolt it felt quite competitive, so I might test it if it's better with Bloodbath next time, but so far the rotation feels a lot easier and smoother on dps than before.
I know fury scales a lot from mastery, so when I say that I get around 80-85k stable dps with TG fury on dummy (+ critbuff), it might not clearly reflect the raid performance, but overall Arms doesn't seem to be that much of behind next patch. Hell, it's not even know, although being SMF would be a clear choice on numbers if you never get a chance to deside on it. Arms still have superior AoE than Fury though, but nerfing heroic leap might make the difference smaller. Kinda funny that currently you can even outdps fury's bladestorm by doing TC+Leap+WW combos...

@meathead
I don't have problems on being able to stay at protection stance myself, but I've seen a lot of complains about it already and this would made the "issue" more obvious, where people are demanding a "fix" on it. They might just nerf it somehow next patch, if this just goes out like it is, but we will see. I hope it does not.

[panzerfar]

WTB more 5.2 Arms info. Any1 tested them and their DPS?
TBH I really like how the arms "rotation" is atm, even thou Arms dont top meters(actually we're at the bottom
Info would be nice.

Cheers

[meathead]

TG Fury isn't actually that much of ahead currently. I don't care if the simulations say so, when in real world the performance is a lot smaller. SMF is quite different story again, but if you have to choose against TG Fury vs Arms, I would test it myself how it goes. There has been only like 1-2 fights where I can clearly pull more dps as TG Fury, but on the rest the bigger numbers falls on the clumsy burst playstyle.

For the numbers... Currently on my 497 ilvl I gear I can do around 75-80k dps sustained dummy dps as Arms, depending on the TFB procs. With priority being on cleave + OP while basically ditching slam in PTR, my dps is around 90k in there. So without optimal rotation and stormbolt it felt quite competitive, so I might test it if it's better with Bloodbath next time, but so far the rotation feels a lot easier and smoother on dps than before.
I know fury scales a lot from mastery, so when I say that I get around 80-85k stable dps with TG fury on dummy (+ critbuff), it might not clearly reflect the raid performance, but overall Arms doesn't seem to be that much of behind next patch. Hell, it's not even know, although being SMF would be a clear choice on numbers if you never get a chance to deside on it. Arms still have superior AoE than Fury though, but nerfing heroic leap might make the difference smaller. Kinda funny that currently you can even outdps fury's bladestorm by doing TC+Leap+WW combos...

@meathead
I don't have problems on being able to stay at protection stance myself, but I've seen a lot of complains about it already and this would made the "issue" more obvious, where people are demanding a "fix" on it. They might just nerf it somehow next patch, if this just goes out like it is, but we will see. I hope it does not.

"@meathead
I don't have problems on being able to stay at protection stance myself, but I've seen a lot of complains about it already and this would made the "issue" more obvious, where people are demanding a "fix" on it. They might just nerf it somehow next patch, if this just goes out like it is, but we will see. I hope it does not."

and that was my point-there is no reason why blizz should nerf d-stance.blizz gets into this nerf warrior shit and it never stops until we are broken like we were in cata.just like they nerfed our fear and said it needed it because our control was to high.but then they turn around and nerf shock wave while leaving our fear nerfed.no need for both to be nerfed. people are crying because warriors are not a fee kill anymore and now we can actually survive a fight,"like the class was designed to do,give and take a ton of damage".others thinks warriors should be force to stance dance,well the games changed since wrath.stance dancing is out dated and clunky and has no place in todays game.d-stance does what its supposed to do,reduce damage taken at the cost of rage.want more rage go b-stance or berserker.haters are going to hate is what it come down to,they just want warriors to be shit again.

[Kreeshak]

i dont know if it matters, but I agree with meathead on anything he has said about warriors on this forum.

[Darkfriend]

TG Fury isn't actually that much of ahead currently. I don't care if the simulations say so, when in real world the performance is a lot smaller. SMF is quite different story again, but if you have to choose against TG Fury vs Arms, I would test it myself how it goes. There has been only like 1-2 fights where I can clearly pull more dps as TG Fury, but on the rest the bigger numbers falls on the clumsy burst playstyle.

For the numbers... Currently on my 497 ilvl I gear I can do around 75-80k dps sustained dummy dps as Arms, depending on the TFB procs. With priority being on cleave + OP while basically ditching slam in PTR, my dps is around 90k in there. So without optimal rotation and stormbolt it felt quite competitive, so I might test it if it's better with Bloodbath next time, but so far the rotation feels a lot easier and smoother on dps than before.
I know fury scales a lot from mastery, so when I say that I get around 80-85k stable dps with TG fury on dummy (+ critbuff), it might not clearly reflect the raid performance, but overall Arms doesn't seem to be that much of behind next patch. Hell, it's not even know, although being SMF would be a clear choice on numbers if you never get a chance to deside on it. Arms still have superior AoE than Fury though, but nerfing heroic leap might make the difference smaller. Kinda funny that currently you can even outdps fury's bladestorm by doing TC+Leap+WW combos...

@meathead
I don't have problems on being able to stay at protection stance myself, but I've seen a lot of complains about it already and this would made the "issue" more obvious, where people are demanding a "fix" on it. They might just nerf it somehow next patch, if this just goes out like it is, but we will see. I hope it does not.

Take cleave off your bar. SS is almost always going to be better, unless the add is going to die in one hit anyway.

[Calamari]

Not sure how pvp Arms warriors will feel about the change to TfB when they get to play it (little to no surprise burst, very steady damage output), at least in PvE the rotation feels quite painfully repetitive now.

The only thing you have to react to anymore are CS procs, the rest is pooling rage inbetween CS and OP+HS dumping rage into CS.. with a few leftover OP charges outside CS here and there. Can't seem to find opportunities to use Slam effectively anymore, as a OP+HS always seems to be the better choice.

5.2 Arms seems to be all about predictable damage output, but the spec sorely needs something to manage or some more procs look out for or it will quickly feel boring and repetetive to play.

[Kankipappa]

Take cleave off your bar. SS is almost always going to be better, unless the add is going to die in one hit anyway.

Well, the reason I used Cleave over HS on PTR dummy is to experiment. It looked to be a DPS increase when paired with Glyph of overpower (20% more damage on next overpower after using cleave). The amount of rage you get in and the amount of overpowers you use in the rotation atm on PTR actually made it better to use cleave instead of HS. HS only does 110% weapon damage where as cleave does around 82% (or smth?), while OP gains flat 20% more on the crit, critting about 10k more on average without cooldowns or colossus, biggest OP's being around 150k on my gear when everything is up. Surely MS and Slam on those occasions crit easily more than 200k but still, not that bad.

Kinda funny, eh? HS feels like the button not to be used that much atm. Not that the overall difference would be that big, but you get "free" cleave while suffering 0 single target damage, if you just remember to hit cleave first once every OP when the rage allows so. Previously that wasn't the case because a stacked HS hits way more than a stacked cleave. It's just fun sometimes to experiment on stuff

Not sure about the increase of sustained damage tbh. With stormbolt - maybe. I haven't taken it previously on the account that the boss dummies on PTR nowadays might have all the raid debuffs by default? Or was that something I'm now remembering wrong (PTR servers now down for me, can't check). If so, directly checking it against live performance would be misleading.

[Kreeshak]

Not sure how pvp Arms warriors will feel about the change to TfB when they get to play it (little to no surprise burst, very steady damage output), at least in PvE the rotation feels quite painfully repetitive now.

The only thing you have to react to anymore are CS procs, the rest is pooling rage inbetween CS and OP+HS dumping rage into CS.. with a few leftover OP charges outside CS here and there. Can't seem to find opportunities to use Slam effectively anymore, as a OP+HS always seems to be the better choice.

5.2 Arms seems to be all about predictable damage output, but the spec sorely needs something to manage or some more procs look out for or it will quickly feel boring and repetetive to play.

I agree. If that means the sustained is higher than 5.1 i am going to be happy. If you are able to apply pressure without cds, then we will have our chance.

[Mirishka]

Newest patch notes suggest that Second Wind is being un-nerfed, and IV is being buffed to a 15% heal.

[cFortyfive]

Newest patch notes suggest that Second Wind is being un-nerfed, and IV is being buffed to a 15% heal.

well a nerf to both sw and def stance would have been quite ridiculous.

[Kankipappa]

Most obvious thing is that they're going after defensive stance on PvP, although it's a nerf on PvE for DPS warriors on soaking and stuff. At least it allows warriors to tunnel more on fights where you're supposed to soak something. Always being the worst choice on those means you're probably never going to get to do those.

Expected after the 5.2 changes on rotation and the 0 need for rage on it. I liked the old rage better, because now we are going to the point of feeling more and more like a DK and their runic power, we are only just missing the runes now...

[Zokudu]

From a prot perspective, I'm glad they nerfed dps defensive stance and rebuffed Second Wind. Less collateral damage to me, thought the T15 2p seems very interesting. I assume it will make Impending victory mandatory unless I am reading it wrong.

Now if they would just separate out the shockwave nerf the same way.

[sOvrn]

Wow.. Tier 15 4 piece, and 2 piece for that matter, is just incredible. I'm shocked at how good it is.

[Beefkow]

Good stuff, love the nerfs and buffs, its starting to balance out the game.

Im proud of blizzard, if they keep this up we will have a great season coming up.

[Darkfriend]

I really like the T15 4P. The 2p, it'll all depend on the proc rate. The other problem is that it seems like it'd be much much better for fury than arms, not only because of the RB procs (assuming it can proc them) but also the scaling of enrage for fury.

The other question is how will the 4p interact with the rotation. Probably won't want to pop reck+banner anymore. This'll only make execute phase more OP.

[Opeth69]

reck glyph + banner possibly going to be the way forward with that set bonus, it would net you 55% crit for 10 seconds then an extra 25% for 8 seconds after, as you really want max crit possible every reck plus crit banner for the most burst possible. The 2pc is nice, but unless blizz alters the proc chance its going to favor smf>tg>arms which is I guess disappointing, but at the same time arms doesnt rely on enrage, TG generally has higher crit values due to more stats so more enrages so perhaps its not too bad.

The wildstrike rage cost changes could be interesting, but basically just help fill more globals between CS without spending too much rage, however im curious as to how procced WS + HS would compare to just RB during a cs.