The Last Straw

[Lanesia]

If you want to make a post people can take seriously it's not a good idea to say everyone agrees that x and y is a problem but blizzard won't do something about it because you really can only speak for yourself.. so you undermine your own credibility by claiming you speak for everyone when you really don't

[Woceip]

I'mma let you in on a secret. Simply because you feel something's a good idea, that doesn't give Blizzard an obligation to implement it.

[Strangewayes]

i didn't realize mass effect 3 was the only AAA game to have come out recently. you really come off as the guy who nit picks every little thing to the point where simply enjoying a game is a hassle. which is a very sad mind set.

And I pity you, because you come off as one of those "screw you, I got mine" people. it's quite sad.

See? I can dismiss people with generalizations too.

[StationaryHawk]

Not many AAA games I'd wager. Have you played the latest Mass Effect?

Is it worth playing a game which is classified as a "AAA" game if you dislike it? I wouldn't think so. Like I said, if Blizzard's decisions upset you so much and the game is no longer fun, move on and find something else.

That is not Mass Effect, if that helps at all.

[Strangewayes]

If you want to make a post people can take seriously it's not a good idea to say everyone agrees that x and y is a problem but blizzard won't do something about it because you really can only speak for yourself.. so you undermine your own credibility by claiming you speak for everyone when you really don't

I never said I spoke for everyone, I never said that.

I'm confused why people repeatedly make assumptions like this, when it seems they never read my original post.
I've just repeatedly been disappointed by the fact that well thought out and constructive arguments and points made by multiple posters have been seemingly ignored, or at best, brushed aside. Particularly during Beta periods when these problems could have been acted upon.

But it seems through the feedback from this thread that the majority of the playerbase either don't even understand the argument I'm trying to make, dismiss me as a angry ranter, or simply disagree.

I'm not saying the game is DOOMED or the sky is falling. I'm saying I'm disappointed in Blizzards lack of enthusiasm in utilizing good idea and valubale feedback from the playerbase over 8 years or so. And just watching it happen repeatedly.

[ringpriest]

Since my post on the official forums was locked, I decided to post here instead. And apparently no-one got what I was talking about, and was just complaining about nothing. All of these points are small things, that have simply added up over time, and made me lose faith in Blizzards developmental decisions. I don't think Blizzard are malicious, I simply believe they cannot see the forest from the trees. And that they place too little stock in feedback from players who have probably clocked more hours than the developers themselves.

I gave you enough chances Blizz.

People told you the PVP balance issues that would come up during MoP all throughout the Beta.
People gave you examples, and extensive arguments on what would happen, and you thought you knew better.
People told you to start on model updates all the way back to Wrath.
Your long held stance against Transmogrification shows how little you regard your own playerbase.
You didn't take any lessons from Cata's Molten Front in terms of Daily quest design.
You didn't anticipate any of the problems that might arise from introducing several types of currency, in a game already starved for inventory space
You said you didn't want to cause ability bloat, and then caused ability bloat.
You said you didn't want to homogenize classes, and then started duplicating abilities across classes (execute abilities, for one)
You said you pay careful attention to PVP, while your actions (usually woefully slow) prove otherwise.
You took too long implement something as basic as green warlock fire, which was wildly requested for five years
You say you value feedback, but your turnaround time on suggestions and advice, prove otherwise.
The fact that your CM's respond to the most laughably obvious troll posts; ends up promoting that sort of behaviour, and have resulted in the official forums becoming a terrible place to search for constructive and balanced opinions.

Both Blizzard and players agreed, that ability bloat was starting to get out of control, they said they would reduce ability bloat. This did not happen.

Blizzard and the players both agreed they were afraid of a "CC arms race" and now here we are, with CC abilities out of control, with Burst too high.

Another example, Rogues said that several decisions regarding Rogues in the MoP Beta were going to hurt them, Blizz took a "wait and see" approach, and Rogue representation has plummeted. And out of all the options Blizzard had to cherry pick from among the Rogue suggestions, they took the most band-aid easy way out. Making Prep baseline.

Molten Front dailies had showed Blizzard what exactly were the limits of the playerbase in regards to dailies, and how many the playerbase will consume while avoiding burnout. So the ignored this data and decided to add twice, to three times this amount, all while telling us this was optional, when some factions clearly were not. What mid range raider would pass up required flasks, food, extra gear or extra gear rolls?

I agree with the overall tenor of your post. For me personally, the final decision point came a little earlier, but obviously we're all going to vary on precisely what makes the game fun for us and what is going "too far". Please ignore the "love it or leave it" Blizzard cultists - players quitting over bad decisions by Blizzard is probably the best way to get the company to actually realize that they're hurting themselves with a never-ending stream of poor decisions. It's perfectly fine to like the Warcraft universe and even the game, yet not approve of what Blizzard has done with them.

As for some of the specifics you mention... Blizz has been ignoring detailed, well-thought out, respectful feedback since the Wrath beta. And they've been punishing such commentary on the official forums for almost as long. Sometimes <tinfoil hat on> I wonder if they lock and/or delete the more polite and reasoned criticism, while leaving the mouth-breathers and trolls, in order to make it appear as though anyone who disagrees with the official company line must be an idiot. <tinfoil hat off>

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Sky High]

And I pity you, because you come off as one of those "screw you, I got mine" people. it's quite sad.

See? I can dismiss people with generalizations too.

close or should i say not at all. but sure keep thinking it was a dismissal, or even a generalization. just an observation, was it right? probably not but then again you have shown little to prove otherwise.

[Seezer]

*sigh* I'm not talking about a few random posters, I'm talking about top PVP'ers, top Raider's, and people who post well thought out and extensive feedback.

And I'm not talking about daily quality. I'm talking about how many dailies there were neccesary as a Raider, to complete. While Blizzard said they were completely optional.

But, you know what? Nevermind.... if the playerbase isn't understanding what I'm complaining about, perhaps it's a sign that I'm not meant to be playing anymore. And that I am no longer the demographic they are seeking.

Sorry, but top pvp'ers and top raiders are a very small percentage of the playerbase. Their opinion isn't any more valid. And people seem to always think that if they have a problem with something, then the majority of people do. The blame is on players. They see shinies, they want them, and then they bitch when they have to do something for them. That's nothing new and not a problem with the game. The Molten Front dailies were the victim of massive hyperbole. Players in the passive/aggressive wisdom think that dailies have gotta be the problem because who likes to do the same thing over and over again? Welcome to mmo's.

Remember 4.3? Where there was jack shit to do?*How many times did people run DS? How many times did people run LFR? Mmo's content is run over and over again. That's what stretches content until the next patch. Don't want to do dailies? Don't do them. It's always better to have more to do than less. Because you can always choose what you want to do. This isn't keeping up with the jonses anymore. And if you feel that way, then you take the game way too seriously. Content can be seen by all no matter what the time restriction. It's good you're done. Because it sounds like this game runs your life.

[Maelle]

I can't imagine why this thread was locked on the official forums, but I would personally like to thank you for bringing your soapboxes and dead horses over here

Stop attention seeking and be off with you if you are going!

I see a lot of: this is what i think, some people agree with me, so therefore I am right and everyone else is wrong. It's not even a discussion you want, but people to agree with you and share your outrage.

[Seezer]

I agree with the overall tenor of your post. For me personally, the final decision point came a little earlier, but obviously we're all going to vary on precisely what makes the game fun for us and what is going "too far". Please ignore the "love it or leave it" Blizzard cultists - players quitting over bad decisions by Blizzard is probably the best way to get the company to actually realize that they're hurting themselves with a never-ending stream of poor decisions. It's perfectly fine to like the Warcraft universe and even the game, yet not approve of what Blizzard has done with them.

As for some of the specifics you mention... Blizz has been ignoring detailed, well-thought out, respectful feedback since the Wrath beta. And they've been punishing such commentary on the official forums for almost as long. Sometimes <tinfoil hat on> I wonder if they lock and/or delete the more polite and reasoned criticism, while leaving the mouth-breathers and trolls, in order to make it appear as though anyone who disagrees with the official company line must be an idiot. <tinfoil hat off>

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

This is bullshit. Blizz listens and makes changes based off of player feedback constantly. But what happens is they went from having a wet noodle of a spine in cata to sticking to what they believe in in a few cases in MoP, and people can't stand it. Because in the end, passive/aggressive control freaks can't let things go. They will rage and act silly out of desperation because simply just saying to themselves "Meh, I'm not having fun anymore, I'll do something else with my time. Because it's only a game.". They act like neckbearded spoiled brats who will do anything to get their way.

[StationaryHawk]

I'm saying I'm disappointed in Blizzards lack of enthusiasm in utilizing good idea and valubale feedback from the playerbase over 8 years or so. And just watching it happen repeatedly.

To be fair, you're making the assumption that just because you (and others) believe something is a good idea which resources should be put towards implementing, that Blizzard (and others) believe something is a good idea which resources should be put towards implementing.

I understand your argument about PvP balance, but I'd think that it's not as simple as you might believe. I understand your frustration towards the lack of new character models, but I'd think that they've probably been in progress for longer than you're willing to give them credit for. I can see where you're going about dailies, but not only has Blizzard made efforts to reduce the workload, but plenty of people either understand the lack of necessity to do them daily, or are willing to do so. My point being, your arguments are far too one-sided and don't take into consideration anything but your opinions and those which agree with you.

People disagree with you.

[Seezer]

I played since November 2004. I always watched the forums as people that were smarter and had far better suggestions than me get told "Sounds possible, but we'll see how it plays out" or sometimes no response at all. I always thought "Well Blizzard must know best" I thought this for years and years. But now I simply believe that Blizzard is ignoring valuable suggestions that could improve the game, because they think that they always know better. Think of Transmog, people were BEGGING for this, and Blizzard said it wasn't part of their vision for the game. That's one of the worst things a developer could say to such a reasonable request in an RPG. I can't dress my character the way I want?

Thankfully they've changed their mind on the issue. But think of how many things that could improve the game if they didn't stubbornly stick to their "It's not our vision" argument?

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 08:29 AM ----------



Well I guess you must be god, because you can tell how everyone in the game is feeling about it.

Isn't that what you're doing?

[Strangewayes]

I can't imagine why this thread was locked on the official forums, but I would personally like to thank you for bringing your soapboxes and dead horses over here

Stop attention seeking and be off with you if you are going!

I see a lot of: this is what i think, some people agree with me, so therefore I am right and everyone else is wrong. It's not even a discussion you want, but people to agree with you and share your outrage.

So you'd prefer a forum with no dissenting opinion? A forum that is an echo chamber where you all circlejerk about what an amazing game you play?

I don't really think that sort of environment improves a game really.
You probably think I believe WoW is the worst thing ever or something.

I been playing WoW for a long time and enjoying it. But when you see something you love fall into what you believe is mediocrity, you'd like to voice your opinions, and have them challenged and/or agreed upon.

Is that not the point of a forum?

[Deleted]

why people just cant simply unsuscribe but instead have to give their reasons, like it was some freaking TV show.

PEOPLE DON'T CARE YOU QUIT.

[The Madgod]

I never said I spoke for everyone, I never said that.

I'm confused why people repeatedly make assumptions like this, when it seems they never read my original post.
I've just repeatedly been disappointed by the fact that well thought out and constructive arguments and points made by multiple posters have been seemingly ignored, or at best, brushed aside. Particularly during Beta periods when these problems could have been acted upon.

But it seems through the feedback from this thread that the majority of the playerbase either don't even understand the argument I'm trying to make, dismiss me as a angry ranter, or simply disagree.

I'm not saying the game is DOOMED or the sky is falling. I'm saying I'm disappointed in Blizzards lack of enthusiasm in utilizing good idea and valubale feedback from the playerbase over 8 years or so. And just watching it happen repeatedly.

Many Brewmasters have been saying for a long while that our biggest issue in PvE content has been stuns; due to our active mitigation style of tanking, if we cannot use such, then we take a lot of damage. Guess what Blizzard's giving us? Tools to protect ourselves while stunned.

Just saying.... you've said it yourself: you're not the best player. You're also rather obviously not a member of the development team.

Is it possible, just possible, that these ideas that seem good are possibly not?

Blizzard obviously listens to its fanbase, it pays attention to the concerns of its customers. However, from the developer's point of view, there are so many factors to implementing an idea that even if it's an AWESOME idea it might be impractical or even impossible when it was suggested. There's only so much they can do, and in an environment where basically everything's interconnected, even a slight nudge can change a LOT.

[Raven]

Since my post on the official forums was locked, I decided to post here instead. And apparently no-one got what I was talking about, and was just complaining about nothing. All of these points are small things, that have simply added up over time, and made me lose faith in Blizzards developmental decisions. I don't think Blizzard are malicious, I simply believe they cannot see the forest from the trees. And that they place too little stock in feedback from players who have probably clocked more hours than the developers themselves.

I gave you enough chances Blizz.

People told you the PVP balance issues that would come up during MoP all throughout the Beta.
People gave you examples, and extensive arguments on what would happen, and you thought you knew better.
People told you to start on model updates all the way back to Wrath.
Your long held stance against Transmogrification shows how little you regard your own playerbase.
You didn't take any lessons from Cata's Molten Front in terms of Daily quest design.
You didn't anticipate any of the problems that might arise from introducing several types of currency, in a game already starved for inventory space
You said you didn't want to cause ability bloat, and then caused ability bloat.
You said you didn't want to homogenize classes, and then started duplicating abilities across classes (execute abilities, for one)
You said you pay careful attention to PVP, while your actions (usually woefully slow) prove otherwise.
You took too long implement something as basic as green warlock fire, which was wildly requested for five years
You say you value feedback, but your turnaround time on suggestions and advice, prove otherwise.
The fact that your CM's respond to the most laughably obvious troll posts; ends up promoting that sort of behaviour, and have resulted in the official forums becoming a terrible place to search for constructive and balanced opinions.

Both Blizzard and players agreed, that ability bloat was starting to get out of control, they said they would reduce ability bloat. This did not happen.

Blizzard and the players both agreed they were afraid of a "CC arms race" and now here we are, with CC abilities out of control, with Burst too high.

Another example, Rogues said that several decisions regarding Rogues in the MoP Beta were going to hurt them, Blizz took a "wait and see" approach, and Rogue representation has plummeted. And out of all the options Blizzard had to cherry pick from among the Rogue suggestions, they took the most band-aid easy way out. Making Prep baseline.

Molten Front dailies had showed Blizzard what exactly were the limits of the playerbase in regards to dailies, and how many the playerbase will consume while avoiding burnout. So the ignored this data and decided to add twice, to three times this amount, all while telling us this was optional, when some factions clearly were not. What mid range raider would pass up required flasks, food, extra gear or extra gear rolls?

A top secret solution to your problem, if you don´t like the game, stop playing it and go over to another game that lives up to what you want in a game.

[Strangewayes]

People disagree with you.

So does think mean I shouldn't even attempt to persuade them of different? Just because someone HAS an opinion doesn't mean it's set in stone.

The main problem I have had isn't with people disagreeing with me in this thread.
It's with people not even getting the point of the posts I've been making, even after trying to explain again and again.

[Seezer]

So you'd prefer a forum with no dissenting opinion? A forum that is an echo chamber where you all circlejerk about what an amazing game you play?

I don't really think that sort of environment improves a game really.
You probably think I believe WoW is the worst thing ever or something.

I been playing WoW for a long time and enjoying it. But when you see something you love fall into what you believe is mediocrity, you'd like to voice your opinions, and have them challenged and/or agreed upon.

Is that not the point of a forum?

People circlejerk about how bad of a game they think it is too. They circlejerk over anything. Man, you're biased. Look. People have been bitching about the game since the beginning. That's what people behind a computer do. But when you have twisted emotions behind much of it, it's hard to sift through what is an actual problem, and what is a player wanting to armchair quarterback the development of the game. Mediocrity to you is not mediocrity to others, and that's the issue. You're acting like everything you think it wrong with the game is an actual issue. And you're trying to validate that by other people feeling the way you do. Well of course people will.

[Deleted]

Blizzard doesn’t need players like you. ! ( those who think they have all the answers)

They proved this by locking your post.

They want new players who are bright eyed and in awe of them.

Just consider yourself past your sell by date and no longer in their target audience.

Quit and move on and find another game to play.

Its their game you have no rights when it comes to development.

[Seezer]

And is it really the last straw? Or are you still going to hang around bitching?