Purge of Dalaran - Character vs. Player

[Sandrox]

There were enough high elves exiled, because they posed a security risk, meaning it is a very similar situation.
They refused to change for their people and in doing so jeopardized the security of their entire race, which is why they were sent into exile.

You cant exile someone who didnt return in the first place. Quit making shit up.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You cant exile someone who didnt return in the first place. Quit making shit up.

He's not making shit up.

[Combatbutler]

You cant exile someone who didnt return in the first place. Quit making shit up.

Read shadow of the sun,enough high elves were exiled, because they posed a security risk.

[Sandrox]

He's not making shit up.

Seems to me like he is. The High elves werent 'sent into exile'. They did not return to Quel'Thalas. Quite a huge difference. The most the Blood Elves could do is not allow them to return, which they didnt intend to do in the first place.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Seems to me like he is. The High elves werent 'sent into exile'. They did not return to Quel'Thalas. Quite a huge difference. The most the Blood Elves could do is not allow them to return, which they didnt intend to do in the first place.

Shadow of the Sun short story. They exiled the High Elves.

[Combatbutler]

Seems to me like he is. The High elves werent 'sent into exile'. They did not return to Quel'Thalas. Quite a huge difference. The most the Blood Elves could do is not allow them to return, which they didnt intend to do in the first place.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...hemar-theron/1
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...daria/part-4/9

[wadark]

The Sunreavers, at least their leaders, stole what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction in order to give it to their warmonger of a warchief who all-but-openly admits that his goal is not "peace for the Horde" but "dominance for the Horde". Whether all the members were complicit isn't necessarily relevant. It was stated in the quests that Jaina demanded their surrender and that several did, in fact, do so.

At the end of the day, they are a part of an organization that committed a crime, and they could've surrendered or they could've fought. The one's the players are tasked with killing are the latter.

None of this is to say that the Alliance is completely innocent in all this, but I certainly would no longer tolerate the presence of the Sunreavers in Dalaran if I were Jaina.

My hope is that it doesnt derail the negotiations between Lor'themar and Varian. From what I've read of the Horde quest and the dialogue that Lor'themar gives AFTER the purge, he is angry at Jaina, but blames Garrosh just as much.

[Combatbutler]

My hope is that it doesnt derail the negotiations between Lor'themar and Varian. From what I've read of the Horde quest and the dialogue that Lor'themar gives AFTER the purge, he is angry at Jaina, but blames Garrosh just as much.

The negotiations are pretty much over, since Lor'themar will lead the Sunreaver onslaught against the Kirin Tor in 5.2

[Scummer]

Seems to me like he is. The High elves werent 'sent into exile'. They did not return to Quel'Thalas. Quite a huge difference. The most the Blood Elves could do is not allow them to return, which they didnt intend to do in the first place.

"Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires."

[Sandrox]

"Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires."

A small group of High Elves, not the majority of them who never returned in the first place.

[Aquamonkey]

The Sunreavers, at least their leaders, stole what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction in order to give it to their warmonger of a warchief who all-but-openly admits that his goal is not "peace for the Horde" but "dominance for the Horde". Whether all the members were complicit isn't necessarily relevant. It was stated in the quests that Jaina demanded their surrender and that several did, in fact, do so.

At the end of the day, they are a part of an organization that committed a crime, and they could've surrendered or they could've fought. The one's the players are tasked with killing are the latter.

None of this is to say that the Alliance is completely innocent in all this, but I certainly would no longer tolerate the presence of the Sunreavers in Dalaran if I were Jaina.

Aethas is the leader of the Sunreavers. He had nothing to do with the Bell and has always been against Garrosh.

[Combatbutler]

A small group of High Elves, not the majority of them who never returned in the first place.

The sunreavers are also just a fraction of the Kirin Tor,yet they posed a risk to the safety of Dalaran and so did the high elves in Quel'thalas.

[Granyala]

But I still look at those terrified Sunreavers running helpless in the streets of Dalaran, and an implacable force simply teleporting them to be imprisoned. I still look at myself, swords in hand, hacking down any armed resistance and even invading shops to kill the proprietors. This war with the Horde has the very real danger of making the Alliance more like what it fights, and today I did quests that very much felt like those giving the quests had slipped over that line. But let us not pretend that I didn't very much enjoy the turnabout while I was engaged in it.

I did not like the quest. Especially as a Draenei. We do not believe in violence.

That being said: I went to confront the elves and they attacked ME as soon as they saw me, w/o even TRYING to negotiate.
I didn't kill the Dragonhawks, I put them to sleep. It's not their fault, since they are animals.

However, when it's me or that elf, I don't have a choice. I have to fight.

Do I think Jaina has gone too far?
Not really.
Everyone who wanted to surrender had the chance to do so and is temporarily detained, until they can be brought to Org. I highly doubt Dalarans prison could support all these Sunreavers for long.
They misused not only Jainas trust, but our trust as well, so keeping them in a position of power is a risk we cannot afford.

Do I think Jaina is a security risk?
Yes.
She needs to be dethroned as Kirin Tor leader, because it's quite obvious that she is overwhelmed by her emotions and no longer a reliable ally in a combat situation.

BTW these questlines really gave me a new respect for Varian. I love how his character has been evolved.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I did not like the quest. Especially as a Draenei. We do not believe in violence.

That being said: I went to confront the elves and they attacked ME as soon as they saw me, w/o even TRYING to negotiate.
I didn't kill the Dragonhawks, I put them to sleep. It's not their fault, since they are animals.

However, when it's me or that elf, I don't have a choice. I have to fight.

Do I think Jaina has gone too far?
Not really.
Everyone who wanted to surrender had the chance to do so and is temporarily detained, until they can be brought to Org. I highly doubt Dalarans prison could support all these Sunreavers for long.
They misused not only Jainas trust, but our trust as well, so keeping them in a position of power is a risk we cannot afford.

Do I think Jaina is a security risk?
Yes.
She needs to be dethroned as Kirin Tor leader, because it's quite obvious that she is overwhelmed by her emotions and no longer a reliable ally in a combat situation.

BTW these questlines really gave me a new respect for Varian. I love how his character has been evolved.

Dethroning Jaina? Nah...calm her down first. Though I have to wonder if she was a plot device... /shrug

[Granyala]

Dethroning Jaina? Nah...calm her down first. Though I have to wonder if she was a plot device... /shrug

You sure that's even possible now? Seems to me like she broke down.
It'll be interesting to see what Blizzard does with her.

[Aquamonkey]

Dethroning Jaina? Nah...calm her down first. Though I have to wonder if she was a plot device... /shrug

She needs to be dethroned. She's acting like a dictator when, under Dalaran law, she has no more power than any other Council member. Being the leader is just a figurehead position and public face for the Council of Six.

[Scummer]

A small group of High Elves, not the majority of them who never returned in the first place.

Please provide a source showing your opinion.
We've given you ours, let alone the fact all you have to do is read wowpedia.

Nobody seems to know where you're getting this idea of the majority High Elves never making it back to Quel'Thalas before they were exiled.

[GennGreymane]

You pretty much covered it there. If it wasn't for how she handled the sunreaver and divine bell theft so poorly I might have forgiven Jaina, but she persecuted an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, and more so, allowed someone who hated them to hunt them down and kill them. I can't forgive Jaina for that, anymore then I would Garrosh for theramore.

you forget this is work within factions/nations/organizations rather than individuals

the fact that the leadership of the sunreavers could not figure this out the first time proves they are not capable of controlling their organization

during 2008 when banks were fucked up

did u blame who was directly responsible? or the whole organization? did u blame the leader who in many cases had no idea wtf was going on but it made money so it was A-OK?

when a small group of black water mercs killed civilians, was it just them who got the blame? or did tons of contracts in the organization get revoked?

[Solzan Nemesis]

hey shouldaaaa killed off them orcs, gilneas was not going to pay for there enslavement

I feel that would have ended bad for him. Also the Dark Lady never asked him too.

Well, gives thanks they are High Elves, because if they were Blood Elves probably they would lick your urine, you know, those pervert traitors demonic elves ...

The only traitors here are High Elves and Keal'thas' Forces.

[Trassk]

The Sunreavers, at least their leaders, stole what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction in order to give it to their warmonger of a warchief who all-but-openly admits that his goal is not "peace for the Horde" but "dominance for the Horde". Whether all the members were complicit isn't necessarily relevant. It was stated in the quests that Jaina demanded their surrender and that several did, in fact, do so.

Your wrong there. Arthas did not steal the weapon, it was a small group of rogue sunreavers that stole it.

---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 02:32 AM ----------

you forget this is work within factions/nations/organizations rather than individuals

the fact that the leadership of the sunreavers could not figure this out the first time proves they are not capable of controlling their organization

during 2008 when banks were fucked up

did u blame who was directly responsible? or the whole organization? did u blame the leader who in many cases had no idea wtf was going on but it made money so it was A-OK?

when a small group of black water mercs killed civilians, was it just them who got the blame? or did tons of contracts in the organization get revoked?

however much your trying to spin it, the very same argument comes back right at you for Jaina's actions.