Purge of Dalaran - Character vs. Player

[Dybia]

So, it's all fine and good to like that particular quest, but tell me what he thought about the rest of the chain. It seems to me that, as always, Blizzard is painting the Alliance as something for the Horde to kick around. Even the plan to make Garrosh a final raid boss is a slap in the face of the Alliance. He's a shared boss. We help the Horde take him down. Even when we win, we still lose. It's just sad.

I have to say as an Alliance player, that just sounds like whining. Just because they kind of win doesn't mean we lose. They're still worse off for ever having had Garrosh as their leader. Think about it for a minute. Think about how many of the young orcs support Garrosh. Then think about how Garrosh will most likely turn them all into sha creatures. A huge chunk of the orc population is going to be mutated/killed in that raid on Orgrimmar. If it plays out the way I believe it will the horde will get fucked even if they are helping kill Garrosh. Garrosh supporting orcs are a big chunk of the horde's manpower.

[Fenixdown]

Is there any raid that is not shared? They have to create raid content that both factions can participate in.

Then with all due respect, he shouldn't be a raid boss. Period. The biases from Blizzard are so strong with everything they design that it's honestly a wonder to me why they haven't just come out and told every Alliance player the upcoming plan to delete their characters. The storyline is World of Warcraft, it's being written like World of Hordecraft. I think it's nice that they're fixing Varian and making him more of a leader and less of a "rawr I hate orcs rawr" character, but seriously, look at the costs. What do the Horde lose? Take three guesses. The first two don't count.

[Granyala]

So, it's all fine and good to like that particular quest, but tell me what he thought about the rest of the chain. It seems to me that, as always, Blizzard is painting the Alliance as something for the Horde to kick around. Even the plan to make Garrosh a final raid boss is a slap in the face of the Alliance. He's a shared boss. We help the Horde take him down. Even when we win, we still lose. It's just sad.

No one will win. WoW would end if that's the case.

I think writing in grey areas and not painting one side as losers / winners is far more interesting that good ol' white knight Alliance vs. red ball sucking Sargeras serving evil Horde.

Alliance (who had almost total domination of Azeroth before WoW) need to get their butts kicked, to create a story. Still I think being almost splintered and having Garrosh do so much damage is a loss to the Horde.

[Fenixdown]

why? A fact of this game sooo many people forget is, there will never, ever be an outright and absolute victory between both sides. It can't happen, not with the game and how it works, so your either going to have to settle for a balance of both sides winning something, or your just going to have to be miserable about it and carry on trying to appeal for the alliance to win everything and defeat the horde, which can't happen, anymore then the horde can ever absolutely beat the alliance.

And on this note, please. Spare me that. We know how this game's going to ultimately end. It'll end two ways. Sargeras is dead, and oh yeah...the Horde win. Just like everything else Blizzard designs.

If you really think both sides of the fence are equally green, then I have a bridge in San Francisco you may be interested in purchasing.

[luccadeo]

No one will win. WoW would end if that's the case.

I think writing in grey areas and not painting one side as losers / winners is far more interesting that good ol' white knight Alliance vs. red ball sucking Sargeras serving evil Horde.

Alliance (who had almost total domination of Azeroth before WoW) need to get their butts kicked, to create a story. Still I think being almost splintered and having Garrosh do so much damage is a loss to the Horde.

The Alliance has been getting their butts kicked since vanilla. It is about time they started beating the Horde.

[Buu]

Completely justified? Nope, but I like to put myself in the shoes of the thousands of people who would die the next time 'just a few sunreavers' handed Garrosh a magical weapon of mass destruction the Kirin Tor were hiding. Was it barbarism on any level close to the many deeds of the horde recently? NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. I'm not saying it's perfectly fine because it's just a little bad, but it was definitely not wholesale slaughter. I only had to kill the armed holdouts in the sunreaver's sanctuary and the sewers and the shopkeepers and guy in the bank who attacked me.

It wouldn't feel so horrible if I felt I was REALLY under Jaina's command, doing that in my Alliance Mage.
But every single step it felt like I was being used by that b-otch Vereesa and he Silver Covenant.

Take that part of the the article:

Vereesa Windrunner has established herself as very like her sisters. Indeed, it's fascinating to see how clinical Vereesa is in the implementation of the purge of the Sunreavers and the Horde from Dalaran. The quests I undertook on her behalf had me walking the streets of Dalaran murdering Sunreavers in their homes and places of business, killing a Sunreaver magister for the crime of taking his money out of the bank before running away...

Horde side show too stuff that they have done. Jaina murder and teleport Sunreaver she finds on the streets. But WHY those Sunreavers are on the streets risking their lives when Jaina is patrolling the city?

The dragonhawks I killed had borne me to the Isle of Quel'Danas.

Hmmmm.... So Jaina could be around NOT murdering blood elves, and not destroying her own soul bit by bit, if those elves could simply have taken the dragonhawks and left Dalaran for her? She is killing elves because Silver Covenant manipulated both aggressor and victims?

The article states very clearly, the players must take off the character blindfold, and to check and see there is no more good and evil factions. This was changed back in WC3, where Alliance originated a giant threat and Horde gathered the heroes that saved their world.

This made the factions change positions? No, it didn't. It made the factions competing nations, instead of the usual defenders against invaders. Blizzard left for players realize that alone for very long, now they are taking matter more directly on their hands, to show people it's not the past anymore.

And characters like the Silver Covenant and Garrosh that still treat this as the past are there to fall hard and let those who realize their adversaries are NATIONS, as Vol'Jin and the post-Theramore Varian, to take over.

[Deleted]

Then with all due respect, he shouldn't be a raid boss. Period. The biases from Blizzard are so strong with everything they design that it's honestly a wonder to me why they haven't just come out and told every Alliance player the upcoming plan to delete their characters. The storyline is World of Warcraft, it's being written like World of Hordecraft. I think it's nice that they're fixing Varian and making him more of a leader and less of a "rawr I hate orcs rawr" character, but seriously, look at the costs. What do the Horde lose? Take three guesses. The first two don't count.

We're killing (or at least fighting) the Horde Warchief, and Blizzard is still horde-biased? Bullshit.

[Justignoreme]

We're killing (or at least fighting) the Horde Warchief, and Blizzard is still horde-biased? Bullshit.

Because the Horde is fighting him too and at that point in time he's no longer "warchief of the Horde" as the playable horde races have it. The raid isn't supposed to be bifurcated; it will be the same instance for Horde and Alliance players. How is that even an Alliance victory? (or an Alliance battle for that matter). It's another Horde victory that the Alliance lends a hand in since no one in the Horde likes him...

[Madruga]

I used to like Jaina... But seeing her killing citizens in Dalaran now makes me want to smash her in the face.

She is the Garrosh from the Alliance now.

[Fenixdown]

We're killing (or at least fighting) the Horde Warchief, and Blizzard is still horde-biased? Bullshit.

We're doing it, pun intended, FOR THE HORDE. We're not doing it for the Alliance. So, yes. It is Horde bias.

[Dybia]

I used to like Jaina... But seeing her killing citizens in Dalaran now makes me want to smash her in the face.

She is the Garrosh from the Alliance now.

What citizens does she kill besides Aethas's guards? She hits people once or twice then teleports them away.

[Deleted]

We're doing it, pun intended, FOR THE HORDE. We're not doing it for the Alliance. So, yes. It is Horde bias.

Because the Horde is fighting him too and at that point in time he's no longer "warchief of the Horde" as the playable horde races have it. The raid isn't supposed to be bifurcated; it will be the same instance for Horde and Alliance players. How is that even an Alliance victory? (or an Alliance battle for that matter). It's another Horde victory that the Alliance lends a hand in since no one in the Horde likes him...

Oh, we're having our own reasons to kill him.

[Yriel]

Because the Horde is fighting him too and at that point in time he's no longer "warchief of the Horde" as the playable horde races have it. The raid isn't supposed to be bifurcated; it will be the same instance for Horde and Alliance players. How is that even an Alliance victory? (or an Alliance battle for that matter). It's another Horde victory that the Alliance lends a hand in since no one in the Horde likes him...

So what are the horde players supposed to do in a non-biased version ?

[rowaasr13]

ff that they have done. Jaina murder and teleport Sunreaver she finds on the streets. But WHY those Sunreavers are on the streets risking their lives when Jaina is patrolling the city?

Can you source your fucking lies?

[Justignoreme]

So what are the horde players supposed to do in a non-biased version ?

Be defending their city from an onslaught of Alliance? Have them face a gauntlet of invasion forces, but ultimately the story can go while they kill the Alliance commander (say Admiral Rodgers, for sake of argument) their warchief is slain and the city ultimately gets overrun.

[checking facts]

We're doing it, pun intended, FOR THE HORDE. We're not doing it for the Alliance. So, yes. It is Horde bias.

the horde will be split and fractured. the alliance will team up with one of the pieces of the horde to take the other piece down.

it's an alliance victory.

[Justignoreme]

Oh, we're having our own reasons to kill him.

ya, everyone wants to kill him, who will deliver the final shot? Who really cares? Once the playable Horde defects and effectively forms its own faction independent of Garrosh, we are no longer fighting the Horde, as Alliance players, we are fighting Garrosh and his lackies, just like we fought Putress and his lackeys in Undercity, not the Dark skank and her psychotic loyalists.

---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 09:46 PM ----------

the horde will be split and fractured. the alliance will team up with one of the pieces of the horde to take the other piece down.

it's an alliance victory.

Thats the most ridiculous sounding thing I've ever heard. Because the Alliance, which has been standing together since day one, continues to stand together, it's a victory? Are you serious? Lol need I remind you the horde isn't fracturing so much as they are excising Garrosh from the equation and rallying together against him. Even Thrall shows up for that party, it'll be like old times.

[Granyala]

Jaina murder and teleport Sunreaver she finds on the streets. But WHY those Sunreavers are on the streets risking their lives when Jaina is patrolling the city?

She hurls the odd fireball or frostbolt at people, but she doesn't bring them below 90% hp. I observed her. Seemed more like a bug anyway, as if the teleport has a short cooldown and she just casts the other stuff to fill the space. Not sure.

So no. She only kills Aethas' Guards.

Be defending their city from an onslaught of Alliance? Have them face a gauntlet of invasion forces, but ultimately the story can go while they kill the Alliance commander (say Admiral Rodgers, for sake of argument) their warchief is slain and the city ultimately gets overrun.

Your demands are unreasonable and not possible to implement. (W/O getting a massive backlash from horde players or some ridiculous Deus ex machina device, as to why the horde gets to keep Org)

[Aquamonkey]

the horde will be split and fractured. the alliance will team up with one of the pieces of the horde to take the other piece down.

it's an alliance victory.

Varian's counterattack on Orgrimmar after Theramore was somewhat relying on Horde dissenters helping assassinating Garrosh.

[Deleted]

Honestly, if we were in Jaina's shoes, would ANY of us have not done what she did? She felt betrayed, and bitter.

Now, I'm not justifying the Alliance side of things, I'm a very patriotic Blood Elf! I'm glad that the Blood Elves are being seen clearly as the victims for once. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Aethas completely oblivious to what Garrosh's goons were doing? Effectively making the Sunreavers innocent?