Heroic Progression Order

[logitek]

Edit for lack of reading removal

[Deleted]

Because the OP has already killed Wind Lord.

[Deleted]

What? It takes 1.5-2 hours to do 6/6 H msv and 4/4n terrace. Leaving you at least 4-6 hours for hof on a 2 days schedule. We raid 1-2 days a week and are in hof before the end of the night after doing msv/terrace.

If you are not 1-2 shotting everything you've already killed. Your strategy wasn't good for your raid or people aren't doing their jobs.

stuff like spirit kings and wil of emp cant be a bit unpredictable, espeically spirit kings... terrace is gonna be a 1shot kill but 4 boss's plus some trash still takes a good hour to clear.... same with MSV, even if u do 1shot everything, to do 6 boss's plus trash, ur lookin at least 1hr30.. so thats 2hr30-3hours for farm, not 1.5-2 like u say.

10 boss fights take at least 10mins per boss, that = 1hr40 (100mins)
then you gotta factor in at least 5mins of trash per boss = 50mins

plus random afks, wipes.. jsut add ontop of that... either way, at the bare minimum it takes at least 2hrs30 to clear 6/6 MSV and 4/4 ToES. on a 3hour raid, thats pretty much the raid over.

then ull have 1 full day to do ur progress, lets say imperial, then maybe 1hour the 3rd day, as u need 2hours to kill HC blade, garalon, windlord, and 2x norms (well, maybe not 2hrs, but ud allow some time incase of wipes/dcs etc)

[Riptide]

stuff like spirit kings and wil of emp cant be a bit unpredictable, espeically spirit kings... terrace is gonna be a 1shot kill but 4 boss's plus some trash still takes a good hour to clear.... same with MSV, even if u do 1shot everything, to do 6 boss's plus trash, ur lookin at least 1hr30.. so thats 2hr30-3hours for farm, not 1.5-2 like u say.

10 boss fights take at least 10mins per boss, that = 1hr40 (100mins)
then you gotta factor in at least 5mins of trash per boss = 50mins

plus random afks, wipes.. jsut add ontop of that... either way, at the bare minimum it takes at least 2hrs30 to clear 6/6 MSV and 4/4 ToES. on a 3hour raid, thats pretty much the raid over.

then ull have 1 full day to do ur progress, lets say imperial, then maybe 1hour the 3rd day, as u need 2hours to kill HC blade, garalon, windlord, and 2x norms (well, maybe not 2hrs, but ud allow some time incase of wipes/dcs etc)

I don't know we cleared 2/6 h hof rest normal, 4/4n toes and 5/6 h msv THEN learned will in 4-5 hours. This is during xmas week with only 1 raid night.

Granted we're decent players with little time to raid. But it's what we do every week. And it's more like 6 minutes on average for a boss fight.

[Deleted]

stuff like spirit kings and wil of emp cant be a bit unpredictable, espeically spirit kings... terrace is gonna be a 1shot kill but 4 boss's plus some trash still takes a good hour to clear.... same with MSV, even if u do 1shot everything, to do 6 boss's plus trash, ur lookin at least 1hr30.. so thats 2hr30-3hours for farm, not 1.5-2 like u say.

10 boss fights take at least 10mins per boss, that = 1hr40 (100mins)
then you gotta factor in at least 5mins of trash per boss = 50mins

plus random afks, wipes.. jsut add ontop of that... either way, at the bare minimum it takes at least 2hrs30 to clear 6/6 MSV and 4/4 ToES. on a 3hour raid, thats pretty much the raid over.

then ull have 1 full day to do ur progress, lets say imperial, then maybe 1hour the 3rd day, as u need 2hours to kill HC blade, garalon, windlord, and 2x norms (well, maybe not 2hrs, but ud allow some time incase of wipes/dcs etc)

I recommend every guild, which is lacking time for progression to take some things or maybe everything out of these two videos into consideration:

Pull! A Guide to Faster Raids (just search for it, there are two parts)

I used to run a guild during WotLK on this basis and we were able to down 11/12 hc with only two days of raiding each week while, of course, it was still maincontent (with a little buffhelp, I have to admit . When we then were progressing on LK hc our best shot at them was 90 minutes.
And I have to say: 10 minutes per Boss is just too much, most Bosses usually die after 5 or 6 minutes (or even less), if they´re on farm (and aren´t called Sha).

I just want to say, that it´s a matter of attitude and of e.g. performing well also during trash, with cooldowns and being infight all the time, having a culture of no randomly afk-breaking by single players, distributing loot efficiently, just announcing things and expecting raiders to speak up in case they´re not ready, but otherwise just being quick about it, as good as you can.

It´s a given, that every guild has to find it´s own pace and, as the videos also state, will have to wipe some while pushing the limits, but it´s a whole new feeling

And just to point out, that it works: here´s aguild, that actually killed 25 LK hc quite early while it was current content with only 8 hours of raiding a week:
search for Skunkworks at wowinsider and take the first hit (sorry, not allowed to post links yet
There are also Cata-examples for this. And surely Mop ones, too.

And a little on topic in the end
Riemu2k3 sums it up nicely. It´s a matter of what you want to achieve, I think. Is it clearing one instance on heroic? Is it getting loot quickly or pushing heroic killnumbers?
And I would also add in the specifics of my raiding team, if for you movement takes a lot of time to learn, then movementheavy fights should be less of a priority eg.
Actually,I guess I´d go with Amber Shaper, I just like the fight and the debuff stacking strat

[PrairieChicken]

MSV 1-2-5-3-4-6
HoF 2-4-5-3-1-6
ToES 3-1-2-4-1(elite)

[Deleted]

MSV 1-2-5-3-4-6
HoF 2-4-5-3-1-6
ToES 3-1-2-4-1(elite)

Eh, Ambershaper HC before Garalon HC? (I mean ok it's mostly just correct construct handling, but still..)

[Deleted]

I don't know we cleared 2/6 h hof rest normal, 4/4n toes and 5/6 h msv THEN learned will in 4-5 hours. This is during xmas week with only 1 raid night.

Granted we're decent players with little time to raid. But it's what we do every week. And it's more like 6 minutes on average for a boss fight.

Well maybe our raid team is a little bit more relaxed, the whole raid isnt focused around "rush rush rush"... your right most boss fights are on average 6mins, but when u add in a mini talk before certan fights (eg windlord doin cc targets), and loot afterwards (a min or 2) it will normally avg out to about 10-15mins per boss fight inc trash.

eg u start at 7.. if you have imperial down before 7:15 then id say ur very good, as theres a lot of trash to get thro there.

wil of the emp isnt really hard either, once uve learnt the 1st 3mins of the fight, uve basically got a kill.

5 hours is like 2 raid days for us also



all im saying is its not like firelands or DS where u only had 7-8 boss's... 16 is double that amount, so if u were raiding comfortably in FL/DS on a 2/3 day schedule, u need to be doin a 4/5 day in panda, or u have to be prepared to choose between farm+slow progress / fast progress + less farm