Thread: Cyberpunk 2077

  1. #4261
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    On the bug side of Cyberpunk, I wonder if anyone will manage to wrangle an answer out of CDPR that we never manage to get out of any developer: namely, why are these bugs here? This is the part I'm always really curious about but it always gets swept under the rug. Were these bugs really not found in QA? Given the volume and severity, that seems unlikely, so what decisions were made? Did devs think the problems were less severe than they really were? I'd really love to see an in-depth post mortem of how the issues at release got a greenlight.
    I used to be a QA manager and bugs being in the release does not mean QA did not find them, they most likely did, especially if it's something very obvious. Things like police behavior and what not - you can bet QA found it, reported it and everyone knew about it - it was just not the highest priority thing to fix/address.

    The issue more often than not is simply that more critical issues are prioritized first and judging by the state game launched in - you can bet they had very big issues all the way to the end far more serious than whatever bugs you may be seeing now.

  2. #4262
    Best game of the year, no contest. Can't even count the memorable quests anymore. Haven't had so much fun in years. I'm crying tears.

  3. #4263
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    No it's not subjective AT ALL.
    No, that is ridiculous. Do you have the quantifiable data on soulfulness, fun, and luster?

    Come on, dude. This is the dumbest thing you could possibly type. Nowhere is any other medium on earth is the notion of enjoyment objective fact.

    No such thing exists.

    CDPR made some very specific claims about what you'd be able to do in game. These claims were not backed up. That's not an opinion.
    That is not related to what you typed in the reply I quoted. It's mostly irrelevant here actually.

    I quoted you directly in a single post and spoke to the content of what I quoted directly. No one is going to play football with 213 pages of whatever you may have said to Bo on page 132.

    Customisation? A few presets on character creation. Can't even change your haircut in game. Games from 15 years ago were offering more customisation.
    You can still customize your character though. The degree to which someone is satisfied with those options is subjective. Where did CDPR outline the exact extent of customization? Then we would have something to nail on this point.

    However, being satisfied by what is presented is a subjective quality.

    If I made Pere a Vino Bianco for a guest I do not get to judge their level of satisfaction with the dish.

    I could not write a story and say, "You are now satisfied and pleased with the outcome!"

    How people feel about entertainment or art is 100% subjective.

    If you tried to tell an artist how their work is intended to be and is objectively received they would laugh you out of the building or ignore you. Imagine Lou Reed taking you seriously because you are saying it is an objective fact, "Candy Says" is a "lackluster".

    It is one of the dumbest possible notions to think enjoyment is not subjective to the audience.

    Your choices affect the game. This has been refuted several times. Your initial story changes nothing really. The game is linear and in the majority of cases you have no input. Both small term, with your dialogue options and long term, overall the arching story.

    Get immersed in Night City. How? There's videos comparing stuff like, interacting with vendors, eating food, talking to random npcs between CP2077 and other games and it's painful to watch. Gta 3 had better AI and a more interactive environment. Fact here is, there is LESS interaction between the player and the environment than there is in other games of a similar genre.
    All this has nothing to do with what I quoted or replied to and even if was, these are subjective qualities.

    What tool or instrument of object measure are you using to produce data on individual player "immersion"?

    What setting do I have to adjust the meter of my FACTS-Meter™ to accurately detect Joe Gamer's level of immersion or suspension of disbelief?

    Again, this is outright nonsense and would not apply to any other entertainment medium at all and never had- ever.

    So let's take a standard open world game of the past 8 years. There's more customisation, interaction with the world, and more choices available to the player. That is undeniable, whether people enjoy CP2077 or not.
    Would you not agree?
    I agree CP2077 is not as robust as other games in the genre and adjacent genres in gameplay systems. Though that doesn't stop someone from enjoying the game despite my opinion on CP2077.

    That is at best foolish, and worst stupid.

    Also in terms of advertising. Yes that's right. No one will advertise that as such. They used the wrong terminology, however. They advertised as something that will "revolutionise the way we see open world". It did for sure but not in the right way.
    Firstly, there is a difference between Expressed and Implied claims when advertising and mostly only holds weight in the basis of actual quantifiable data or examples.

    When my company does Advertisement Claims Investigation, for example, we can nail Hostess on the quantifiable amount of sugar in their product vs. what is claimed expressly.

    We can also get a company on what they imply in their advertisement. For example, "Our sugar-free twinkies help promote a healthy lifestyle!"

    You can not get one over on a company because they say, "Our cupcakes are amazing and you'll never enjoy another cupcake again! They are revolutionary cupcakes!"

    Who and what judge is weighing the evidence of scientific or quantifiable evidence of "revolution" in the play experience of a video game?

    As I said, before, "Is Pepsi the taste of a new generation?"

    What if I don't think it is the taste of a new generation. What tools and food scientists will come to my aid for the truth in advertising claim that I can lodge a complaint of the OBJECT fact Pepsi is for old people? Please let me know because I really dislike Pepsi.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2020-12-21 at 07:46 PM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  4. #4264
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    8,688
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Kinda sorta. This is more just them not needing to bother with making the part of the body you can't see look good because...they don't have to. It's not as if it's some incredible feat of animation or engineering, but why waste the time on it if the player's never going to see it? I hate to use "cutting corners" because it has a negative connotation, but this was a smart use of resources on their part. Given the state of the rest of the game (at least on console), I wouldn't have wanted them spending time on this anyways.
    Why did they bother with all the customization if you can't even turn your camera around to inspect/ take pictures of yourself in different areas of the game? Seems like a horrible decision to make an open world RPG game 100% first person. Like. they could have just made it so when in combat you get locked into first person, but out in the world you can choose to zoom out.

  5. #4265
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I used to be a QA manager and bugs being in the release does not mean QA did not find them, they most likely did, especially if it's something very obvious. Things like police behavior and what not - you can bet QA found it, reported it and everyone knew about it - it was just not the highest priority thing to fix/address.

    The issue more often than not is simply that more critical issues are prioritized first and judging by the state game launched in - you can bet they had very big issues all the way to the end far more serious than whatever bugs you may be seeing now.
    I also worked in QA as both a team lead and team supervisor; I second this as a likely scenario and process.

    QA feedback is usually pretty voluminous and verbose in many cases. Team leads and members very often let the Project Manager or Group Director know exactly what they found in a lot of detail.

    The reality of development is the other team directors have to prioritize workflow and that is a weighted judgment outside of the hands of QA in many cases.

    It's really not the fault of QA in many cases where technical issues are this apparent and widespread but of positioning the product for the market.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Why did they bother with all the customization if you can't even turn your camera around to inspect/ take pictures of yourself in different areas of the game? Seems like a horrible decision to make an open world RPG game 100% first person. Like. they could have just made it so when in combat you get locked into first person, but out in the world you can choose to zoom out.
    You can look in mirrors and there is a "selfie" cam type thing in-game. If you are on PC the default key is N, IIRC.

    Just an FYI if you did not know.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  6. #4266
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Why did they bother with all the customization if you can't even turn your camera around to inspect/ take pictures of yourself in different areas of the game? Seems like a horrible decision to make an open world RPG game 100% first person. Like. they could have just made it so when in combat you get locked into first person, but out in the world you can choose to zoom out.
    I was legit just asking myself the same thing.

    Honestly the "RPG choices" apart from the end choice are an illusion of meaningful choices and most of the story lines play out the same throughout the game. I believe it's the same with customization, outside of camera mode and the mirror it has no purpose whatsoever to customize V because of the lock on first to third person viewing and it not being an online RPG version. And the camera mode is for a select group of the playerbase imo, I know about it but don't play around with it. The one time I did look in the mirror the game made my V completely bald instead.
    Last edited by AidanJLowe; 2020-12-21 at 07:58 PM.

  7. #4267
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Fencers, are you sure you want to get into the mud as well? Ok not sure why but. .. Whatever


    No it's not subjective AT ALL. CDPR made some very specific claims about what you'd be able to do in game. These claims were not backed up. That's not an opinion.

    Customisation? A few presets on character creation. Can't even change your haircut in game. Games from 15 years ago were offering more customisation.

    Your choices affect the game. This has been refuted several times. Your initial story changes nothing really. The game is linear and in the majority of cases you have no input. Both small term, with your dialogue options and long term, overall the arching story.

    Get immersed in Night City. How? There's videos comparing stuff like, interacting with vendors, eating food, talking to random npcs between CP2077 and other games and it's painful to watch. Gta 3 had better AI and a more interactive environment. Fact here is, there is LESS interaction between the player and the environment than there is in other games of a similar genre.

    So let's take a standard open world game of the past 8 years. There's more customisation, interaction with the world, and more choices available to the player. That is undeniable, whether people enjoy CP2077 or not.
    Would you not agree?

    Also in terms of advertising. Yes that's right. No one will advertise that as such. They used the wrong terminology however. They advertised as something that will "revolutionise the way we see open world". It did for sure but not in the right way.

    - - - Updated - - -



    How exactly. If a developer says "there will be X in game" then X is not in game, how is that the fault of the customer. Puzzling statement.
    1) Customization does exist. Does it meet your standard? Clearly not, but it exists. A few preset? As in how many? You're trying to make it seem like its 3-5 when it actually has more than that. There's also more customization when you DONT CHOOSE THE PRESET OPTION lol.

    2) Again, choices exist. Here's a list: http://www.gamersheroes.com/game-gui...quences-guide/
    Not going into them for spoiler reaons because I just started the game Saturday, but again they exist.

    3) Immersion is up to the person. I can easily get immersed. You act like these features of standard open world games. They aren't. There's Rockstar and then everyone else way below when it comes to this. Ghost of Tsushima, Assassins Creeds, even Elder Scrolls have limited environment interaction in their open world. Exagerrating for the sake of exagerrating.


    Not sure if trolling or lack of reading. I was referring to the hype and PR, if you believed 100% of what they said that's on you. I was clearly not referring to implementation of said features lmao.

    Is this the first game you've followed or something?
    Last edited by Captain Proton; 2020-12-21 at 08:15 PM.

  8. #4268
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    However, being satisfied by what is presented is a subjective quality.
    *snip*
    How people feel about entertainment or art is 100% subjective.

    If you tried to tell an artist how their work is intended to be and is objectively received they would laugh you out of the building or ignore you. Imagine Lou Reed taking you seriously because you are saying it is an objective fact, "Candy Says" is a "lackluster".

    It is one of the dumbest possible notions to think enjoyment is not subjective to the audience.
    Art is subjective and people are free to feel however they want about any given work (up to an including having no standards and terrible taste), that's one of the perks of living in a society where you are free to appreciate art.

    However, the mistake the "aRt Is 1)0% sUbjEcTiVe (and by implicit extension if I couch any claim in these terms I can never be wrong)" crowd (and I'm not saying this is you, it's just happening a lot in this thread) seem to forget is that there are a whole bunch of sociocultural(and political) factors that go into the enjoyment of art beyond what the individual subjectively believes.
    This is why if I say Moby Dick is good, people are going to have a much harder time displacing my assertion. Then If I say my warhammer 40k/sonic oc cross-over self insert fanfiction is good.

    A person saying "I'm having a blast (and ipso facto the product is good and if you disagree too bad that's my opinion and art is 100% subjective)" Is making the same logical mistake as someone who says "the game softlocked me (and thus possesses an objective technical failing) it is impossible for anyone to enjoy the game".
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  9. #4269
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    No, that is ridiculous. Do you have the quantifiable data on soulfulness, fun, and luster?
    Come on, dude. This is the dumbest thing you could possibly type. Nowhere is any other medium on earth is the notion of enjoyment objective fact.
    No such thing exists.
    A flat world, without interaction and dumb AI. How would you define that? What's the right terminology? Notice I didn't mention fun. Fun is a personal thing. Having no interaction with the world (fact) and a non responsive AI (fact) however, are factual elements that make Night City less interactive, less "alive". Not everything is based on individual perception come on let move away from the 70s°
    That is not related to what you typed in the reply I quoted. It's mostly irrelevant here actually.

    I quoted you directly in a single post and spoke to the content of what I quoted directly. No one is going to play football with 213 pages of whatever you may have said to Bo on page 132.
    It is related. The moment CDPR said "this is going to be an X game" they agreed to a set of standards that defines what makes X genre good. That's how we determine if a game is "good" or "bad". Open world rpg? OK. Give me immersion, rpg elements, variety. Can you enjoy a game that goes below the bar that has been set by the games that came before? Of course you can. That's personal. But if you show up with an open world rpg in 2020 with an AI dumber than GTA3 (2001) and a world less interactive than any game set in an open world setting (can't sit down and eat? Oblivion had that ffs), than your product is below standard.
    You can still customize your character though. The degree to which someone is satisfied with those options is subjective. Where did CDPR outline the exact extent of customization? Then we would have something to nail on this point.

    However, being satisfied by what is presented is a subjective quality.

    If I made Pere a Vino Bianco for a guest I do not get to judge their level of satisfaction with the dish.

    I could not write a story and say, "You are now satisfied and pleased with the outcome!"

    How people feel about entertainment or art is 100% subjective.

    If you tried to tell an artist how their work is intended to be and is objectively received they would laugh you out of the building or ignore you. Imagine Lou Reed taking you seriously because you are saying it is an objective fact, "Candy Says" is a "lackluster".

    It is one of the dumbest possible notions to think enjoyment is not subjective to the audience.
    When they said you'd have complete freedom to do whatever you want with your char. You're still talking enjoyment. That's personal. The 8 preset haircuts, dozen of noses and whatever else however, speak a different story. You're taking this the wrong way. If whatever ingredient you used for your dish was rotten, we can objectively say your dish was poor. I can enjoy it still, sure. I love my rotten fish in the morning, but the dish you prepared is still objectively bad as the ingredients are faulty. This is what happened to the game here. The ingredients mixed to get us that specific dish they wanted to prepare are all wrong. You can enjoy it that's cool, but that surely ain't lasagna.

    All this has nothing to do with what I quoted or replied to and even if was, these are subjective qualities.

    What tool or instrument of object measure are you using to produce data on individual player "immersion"?

    What setting do I have to adjust the meter of my FACTS-Meter™ to accurately detect Joe Gamer's level of immersion or suspension of disbelief?

    Again, this is outright nonsense and would not apply to any other entertainment medium at all and never had- ever.
    That last sentence is preposterous. What makes a good Western, a good action movie, a good ballad, a good novel are a set of ingredients (to refer to the analogy above) that is very well defined. Otherwise you have a cacophony of individualism where everything is good and everything is bad. Enough of that shit please, once again let's move away from the 70s. Let's define immersion. Graphics definitely helps. Can't deny that CP2077 nails it there. Although if you look deeply, you can see that the aesthetics of this sci fi world are at times random, non functional. But that's minimal. The world is definitely immersive at least in a visual way. Let's dig deeper though. Interaction. That's a big thing for immersion. Interacting with the world and its inhabitants is a big part of what defines immersion. You can't use chairs in CP2077. You can't buy a soup and eat it. It sends you to an interface where the food instantly disappears and that's it. Compare it to red dead redemption for example. Let's talk interaction with NPCs. Actually let's not, you know well what's going on there. The result is a beautiful world, with no depth. Can you get immersed? Surely. Can you enjoy it? Surely. How does it compare to similar titles of the same genre? Poorly. Way below standard.

    I agree CP2077 is not as robust as other games in the genre and adjacent genres in gameplay systems. Though that doesn't stop someone from enjoying the game despite my opinion on CP2077.

    That is at best foolish, and worst stupid.
    Same point again. Enjoyment is personal. The judgement given to a product belonging to a specific genre however, can and has to be objective. Enough of individual worlds with their individual opinions. Look at the mess that shit brought us.

    Firstly, there is a difference between Expressed and Implied claims when advertising and mostly only holds weight in the basis of actual quantifiable data or examples.

    When my company does Advertisement Claims Investigation, for example, we can nail Hostess on the quantifiable amount of sugar in their product vs. what is claimed expressly.

    We can also get a company on what they imply in their advertisement. For example, "Our sugar-free twinkies help promote a healthy lifestyle!"

    You can not get one over on a company because they say, "Our cupcakes are amazing and you'll never enjoy another cupcake again! They are revolutionary cupcakes!"

    Who and what judge is weighing the evidence of scientific or quantifiable evidence of "revolution" in the play experience of a video game?

    As I said, before, "Is Pepsi the taste of a new generation?"

    What if I don't think it is the taste of a new generation. What tools and food scientists will come to my aid for the truth in advertising claim that I can lodge a complaint of the OBJECT fact Pepsi is for old people? Please let me know because I really dislike Pepsi.
    And same here, totally tasteless.
    Revolutionising a taste is based on something purely personal. Taste. Revolutionising a genre however, well... That's based on a very quantifiable set of factors as per described above. Can you sue Pepsi for being tasteless? Nope. Can you blame Pepsi if a specific ingredient of a specific batch was poisonous? Hell yeah. Can you call a ballad with a trash metal drum beat, still a ballad? Can you call a book about in depth marine biology a novel? Genres do have factors they need to adhere to if they want to be called that.

    Now, can a game or a product of any kind, break the boundaries of its genre? Yes, and that's a work of genius. Dark souls 1 does that. Depth through world building, and sparse, incredibly good writing. An action adventure game deeper than many full on open world rpgs out there. But those, let's face it are far and few in between. And CP2077 surely isn't one of them.
    And I'm sorry, because as much as I hate the way this turned into, I had great hopes. I'm tired of fantasy, a break would have been so good. Pity. Next time I guess.
    Last edited by Cringefest; 2020-12-21 at 08:52 PM.

  10. #4270
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    IN THE MOUNTAINS
    Posts
    5,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    They can't do that anyway. It's not like they have tons of games going on rn. The next would be the next Witcher and that's years away.

    And the people who say their reputation is "beyond repair". I don't get it. Until when is it "beyond repair". Because if they survive this, meaning not go bankrupt and close office, then they will make another game eventually. When they do, if that game is as good or better than the Witcher 3 without any of the CP2077 shenanigans that have happened in the past 2 weeks then everyone will love them again. Simple as that. Saying their reputation is "beyond repair" is pretty silly.
    I mean, I'm a fan of Cyberpunk, not CDPR. I'm not worried about them failing as a whole, I'm worried about them dropping the Cyberpunk IP. I could care less if they made another Witcher or whatever, it's more Cyberpunk I want.

  11. #4271
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    1) Customization does exist. Does it meet your standard? Clearly not, but it exists. A few preset? As in how many? You're trying to make it seem like its 3-5 when it actually has more than that. There's also more customization when you DONT CHOOSE THE PRESET OPTION lol.

    2) Again, choices exist. Here's a list: http://www.gamersheroes.com/game-gui...quences-guide/
    Not going into them for spoiler reaons because I just started the game Saturday, but again they exist.

    3) Immersion is up to the person. I can easily get immersed. You act like these features of standard open world games. They aren't. There's Rockstar and then everyone else way below when it comes to this. Ghost of Tsushima, Assassins Creeds, even Elder Scrolls have limited environment interaction in their open world. Exagerrating for the sake of exagerrating.


    Not sure if trolling or lack of reading. I was referring to the hype and PR, if you believed 100% of what they said that's on you. I was clearly not referring to implementation of said features lmao.

    Is this the first game you've followed or something?
    Yes it's the first game I've followed and I hate them. I even ripped the cyberpunk 2077 poster I had in my bedroom. My mom was very worried.

  12. #4272
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Yes it's the first game I've followed and I hate them. I even ripped the cyberpunk 2077 poster I had in my bedroom. My mom was very worried.
    Ah, figured. No wonder you get fooled by marketing.
    Last edited by Captain Proton; 2020-12-21 at 09:16 PM.

  13. #4273
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Customisation? A few presets on character creation. Can't even change your haircut in game. Games from 15 years ago were offering more customisation.
    Mate.. cant contest on the other points but a game that let you customize penis size and pubic hair style is ‘up there’ as far as customiZation goes.

  14. #4274
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereturn View Post
    Mate.. cant contest on the other points but a game that let you customize penis size and pubic hair style is ‘up there’ as far as customiZation goes.
    They could have added a slider!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    Ah, figured. No wonder you get fooled by marketing.
    AND cried salty tears while hugging my waifu pillow!

  15. #4275
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    I mean, I'm a fan of Cyberpunk, not CDPR. I'm not worried about them failing as a whole, I'm worried about them dropping the Cyberpunk IP. I could care less if they made another Witcher or whatever, it's more Cyberpunk I want.
    I would not worry, Witcher 3 had tons of bugs at the start, but after all the fixes and DLC is lauded as THE RPG of the decade.
    Yes, CDPR is in somewhat trouble for the console-refunds, but that too will pass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm fine with a mafia. Of course, the mafia families often worked with independent third parties in order to maintain relations.

  16. #4276
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    They could have added a slider!

    - - - Updated - - -



    AND cried salty tears while hugging my waifu pillow!
    Actually got some sort of rebuttal? No? Didn't think so.

  17. #4277
    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    I would not worry, Witcher 3 had tons of bugs at the start, but after all the fixes and DLC is lauded as THE RPG of the decade.
    Yes, CDPR is in somewhat trouble for the console-refunds, but that too will pass.
    There's deeper issues than bugs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    Actually got some sort of rebuttal? No? Didn't think so.
    Not for you no. Whatever I said to fencers applies to you too.

  18. #4278
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uk - England
    Posts
    13,841
    Anyone else have an issue with their game camera just randomly juttering after entering/ exiting the menu, have to save and reopen save to get it back to normal.

  19. #4279
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    There's deeper issues than bugs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not for you no. Whatever I said to fencers applies to you too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    There's deeper issues than bugs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not for you no. Whatever I said to fencers applies to you too.
    All you're saying is "It's missing x feature" then "Well x feature isn't up to standards". Again, you fell for marketing hype. It's your fault. I'm greatly enjoying the game with 0 expectations going in to the game. I haven't even played The Witcher so its not some fanboyism.


    A flat world, without interaction and dumb AI. How would you define that? What's the right terminology? Notice I didn't mention fun. Fun is a personal thing. Having no interaction with the world (fact) and a non responsive AI (fact) however, are factual elements that make Night City less interactive, less "alive". Not everything is based on individual perception come on let move away from the 70s°
    It's souless because of limited interaction and dumb ai? Disagree. The story is great, the voice acting is great, the conversational choices, driving around the city, the television/radio news broadcasts, the visuals of the city and billboards, hearing NPCs talk, and the awesome OST. All that is there and gets me immersed. I don't need shallow interactions with NPCs that won't effect fuck all story wise or gameplay wise. And IMMERSION is ABSOLUTELY based off INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTION. Why the fuck would you not being immersed effect my immersion? Absurd, some people have more active imaginations and absolutely takes less for them to get immersed than other people. FACT.

    It is related. The moment CDPR said "this is going to be an X game" they agreed to a set of standards that defines what makes X genre good. That's how we determine if a game is "good" or "bad". Open world rpg? OK. Give me immersion, rpg elements, variety. Can you enjoy a game that goes below the bar that has been set by the games that came before? Of course you can. That's personal. But if you show up with an open world rpg in 2020 with an AI dumber than GTA3 (2001) and a world less interactive than any game set in an open world setting (can't sit down and eat? Oblivion had that ffs), than your product is below standard.
    Just more exaggerated BS. I already showed how immersion can be different for people and how the game is immersive for me. RPG elements? You mean like leveling your character up, choosing stats to improve, and perk trees to choose from? THOSE RPG ELEMENTS? Yeah those are there too. Variety? Variety of what? That's just generic and means nothing. Variety of RPG elements? Like the 5 different paths you can focus on? And again, world less interactive than any before it? Have you played Assassins Creed or Ghost of Tsushima, hell even Spider-Man? None of those have any meaningful interaction with the world/random NPCs. Pure exaggerated BS.

    When they said you'd have complete freedom to do whatever you want with your char. You're still talking enjoyment. That's personal. The 8 preset haircuts, dozen of noses and whatever else however, speak a different story. You're taking this the wrong way. If whatever ingredient you used for your dish was rotten, we can objectively say your dish was poor. I can enjoy it still, sure. I love my rotten fish in the morning, but the dish you prepared is still objectively bad as the ingredients are faulty. This is what happened to the game here. The ingredients mixed to get us that specific dish they wanted to prepare are all wrong. You can enjoy it that's cool, but that surely ain't lasagna.
    Here's you falling for marketing hype again lol. You really belived that you'd have "complete freedom to do whatever you want with your char"? Like how would they even implement "doing anything you want". Do you have an actual quote or is this just made up in your head?

    That last sentence is preposterous. What makes a good Western, a good action movie, a good ballad, a good novel are a set of ingredients (to refer to the analogy above) that is very well defined. Otherwise you have a cacophony of individualism where everything is good and everything is bad. Enough of that shit please, once again let's move away from the 70s. Let's define immersion. Graphics definitely helps. Can't deny that CP2077 nails it there. Although if you look deeply, you can see that the aesthetics of this sci fi world are at times random, non functional. But that's minimal. The world is definitely immersive at least in a visual way. Let's dig deeper though. Interaction. That's a big thing for immersion. Interacting with the world and its inhabitants is a big part of what defines immersion. You can't use chairs in CP2077. You can't buy a soup and eat it. It sends you to an interface where the food instantly disappears and that's it. Compare it to red dead redemption for example. Let's talk interaction with NPCs. Actually let's not, you know well what's going on there. The result is a beautiful world, with no depth. Can you get immersed? Surely. Can you enjoy it? Surely. How does it compare to similar titles of the same genre? Poorly. Way below standard.
    That's YOUR definition of immersion. The fact that you keep thinking its not subjective is kind of hilarious. Interacting with the world and inhabitant's does not definie immersion for me. The story, the atmopshere, the sounds, the OST, the visuals, the conversational choices are what immerse me. Let's not kid ourselves here. Open world games are known for having quantity over quality. You are overhyping just about every open world game ever. The quality of the story/voice acting blows out every other open world game for me (so far). That is what immerses me. You can keep your own subjective definition to yourself and stop defining what makes games immersive for other people. So I can't sit in a random chair and eat fucking soup. When I walk up to a quest giver and they say "have a seat" and I SIT DOWN and having a conversation is what makes the game immersive for me. Not fucking buying soup and eating it at a table. The world and lore is built and I feel like a character in it that makes choices. OH GOD I DONT HAVE SOUP WHAT THE FUCK WILL I DO!!! LMAO

    Same point again. Enjoyment is personal. The judgement given to a product belonging to a specific genre however, can and has to be objective. Enough of individual worlds with their individual opinions. Look at the mess that shit brought us.
    Enjoyment is personal... but immersion isn't because.... it doesn't line up with your argument.

    And same here, totally tasteless.
    Revolutionising a taste is based on something purely personal. Taste. Revolutionising a genre however, well... That's based on a very quantifiable set of factors as per described above. Can you sue Pepsi for being tasteless? Nope. Can you blame Pepsi if a specific ingredient of a specific batch was poisonous? Hell yeah. Can you call a ballad with a trash metal drum beat, still a ballad? Can you call a book about in depth marine biology a novel? Genres do have factors they need to adhere to if they want to be called that.
    Again here's you fallling for the "revolutionising the genre" marketing again.

    Now, can a game or a product of any kind, break the boundaries of its genre? Yes, and that's a work of genius. Dark souls 1 does that. Depth through world building, and sparse, incredibly good writing. An action adventure game deeper than many full on open world rpgs out there. But those, let's face it are far and few in between. And CP2077 surely isn't one of them.
    Dark Souls 1 a work of genius and boundary breaking? lol hardly, it was an upgrade over its predecessor but the clunky ass gameplay and crap story made it way overrated. I wasn't immersed at all in that game so neither should you have been *eyeroll*

    And I'm sorry, because as much as I hate the way this turned into, I had great hopes. I'm tired of fantasy, a break would have been so good. Pity. Next time I guess.
    But thanks for admitting to buying into the marketing hype yet again.

  20. #4280
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    All you're saying is "It's missing x feature" then "Well x feature isn't up to standards". Again, you fell for marketing hype. It's your fault. I'm greatly enjoying the game with 0 expectations going in to the game. I haven't even played The Witcher so its not some fanboyism.



    It's souless because of limited interaction and dumb ai? Disagree. The story is great, the voice acting is great, the conversational choices, driving around the city, the television/radio news broadcasts, the visuals of the city and billboards, hearing NPCs talk, and the awesome OST. All that is there and gets me immersed. I don't need shallow interactions with NPCs that won't effect fuck all story wise or gameplay wise. And IMMERSION is ABSOLUTELY based off INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTION. Why the fuck would you not being immersed effect my immersion? Absurd, some people have more active imaginations and absolutely takes less for them to get immersed than other people. FACT.



    Just more exaggerated BS. I already showed how immersion can be different for people and how the game is immersive for me. RPG elements? You mean like leveling your character up, choosing stats to improve, and perk trees to choose from? THOSE RPG ELEMENTS? Yeah those are there too. Variety? Variety of what? That's just generic and means nothing. Variety of RPG elements? Like the 5 different paths you can focus on? And again, world less interactive than any before it? Have you played Assassins Creed or Ghost of Tsushima, hell even Spider-Man? None of those have any meaningful interaction with the world/random NPCs. Pure exaggerated BS.


    Here's you falling for marketing hype again lol. You really belived that you'd have "complete freedom to do whatever you want with your char"? Like how would they even implement "doing anything you want". Do you have an actual quote or is this just made up in your head?



    That's YOUR definition of immersion. The fact that you keep thinking its not subjective is kind of hilarious. Interacting with the world and inhabitant's does not definie immersion for me. The story, the atmopshere, the sounds, the OST, the visuals, the conversational choices are what immerse me. Let's not kid ourselves here. Open world games are known for having quantity over quality. You are overhyping just about every open world game ever. The quality of the story/voice acting blows out every other open world game for me (so far). That is what immerses me. You can keep your own subjective definition to yourself and stop defining what makes games immersive for other people. So I can't sit in a random chair and eat fucking soup. When I walk up to a quest giver and they say "have a seat" and I SIT DOWN and having a conversation is what makes the game immersive for me. Not fucking buying soup and eating it at a table. The world and lore is built and I feel like a character in it that makes choices. OH GOD I DONT HAVE SOUP WHAT THE FUCK WILL I DO!!! LMAO


    Enjoyment is personal... but immersion isn't because.... it doesn't line up with your argument.


    Again here's you fallling for the "revolutionising the genre" marketing again.


    Dark Souls 1 a work of genius and boundary breaking? lol hardly, it was an upgrade over its predecessor but the clunky ass gameplay and crap story made it way overrated. I wasn't immersed at all in that game so neither should you have been *eyeroll*

    But thanks for admitting to buying into the marketing hype yet again.
    Good lord.

    1) I'm truly happy you're enjoying the game.

    2) Yes exactly that. Immersion is personal but the factors thar help define it aren't undefined mumbo jumbo. The fact that NPC AI is dumber than a game 19 years ago, traffic AI non existant and world interaction is piss poor aren't opinions. Are factor that make this game a poor game of its genre. Your (or my) opinions are of no importance. You enjoy it. Good happy for you.

    3)yes RPG elements and variety like depth, alternative solutions to issues, a rich talent tree. You know. All things that define the rpg genre.

    4) A barbershop in game and a better character creation would have been enough. Wild stuff I know. Dark souls 3 (2015? 2016?) has a richer character creation tool set than CP2077.

    5) that's great. Thanks for letting me know what immerses you.

    6) you weren't immersed in ds1. I'm sorry. The world building and writing are held as a pinnacle in gaming though. I wonder why. Maybe cause the factors that define a genre aren't pErSoNaL but actually based on a series of quantifiable factors.

    7) OH NO YOU GOT ME

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •