Cyberpunk 2077

[Corvus]

Nope.

They're former gangs, for the most part. They are, explicitly, the evolution of various gangs and crime cartels, mostly. The "unity" thing is the idea that they don't fight each other, that's it. So that "the Nomads" are a collective "thing", but they all get along, accepting their respective cultural differences, and they can focus their raiding and pillaging against the cities and the megacorps.

Er, no. The description given to Nomads in the original CP2020 rules is that they are farmers and their families driven off the land by the corps who fell in with each other and formed a noamd pack, travelling in convoys looking for work where they can find it, or less legal stuff for the less law abiding packs.

Some may have been gangs, but the gangs tended to remain in the cities.

[Endus]

It's talking about how identity politics literally destroyed society, and now that everyone is completely fucked, they don't have time for identity politics because they have real problems again.

"Identity politics" is a useless term. It covers nearly all politics. Most economics, for instance, is "identity politics"; the "identity" in question being social classes.

And no, it really isn't saying that. And it explicitly states that acceptance of cultural differences is a strength of Nomad culture.

Er, no. The description given to Nomads in the original CP2020 rules is that they are farmers and their families driven off the land by the corps who fell in with each other and formed a noamd pack, travelling in convoys looking for work where they can find it, or less legal stuff for the less law abiding packs.

Some may have been gangs, but the gangs tended to remain in the cities.

I'll freely admit I didn't play the P&P game, but I'm reading the actual sourcebook here.

"There are many parallels between gang culture in 2020 and nomad culture (having sprouted from the same roots in the Collapse)." Page 35 of the Neo Tribes sourcebook.

Plus, some of the extant Nomad tribes they describe are explicitly descended from gangs; the Blood Nation is the Bloods of the 20th Century, after Collapse. Thelas Nation are all pirates. Folk Nation is based on Chicago gangs. The Aldecados are a grown-up Southwestern drug cartel gang. Biker gangs are a major component, as well. About the only Nation that could be described as "farmers" is the Jodes.

Now, maybe you consider Neo Tribes non-canon despite being published by the same folks, because it wasn't written by Cyberpunk 2020's original author. That's fine; but this book is also where they get the bit we've been discussing.

[Post]

"Identity politics" is a useless term. It covers nearly all politics. Most economics, for instance, is "identity politics"; the "identity" in question being social classes.

And no, it really isn't saying that. And it explicitly states that acceptance of cultural differences is a strength of Nomad culture.

You should stop ignoring the first half of the passage.

[Endus]

You should stop ignoring the first half of the passage.

I'm not.

I'm pointing out that it's clearly meant to be read as some future scholar's interpretation, not reality. Given the first line. And that this interpretation is directly contradicted by its own description of "unity".

"Unreliable narrators" are a thing, y'know.

[Orby]

V can summon a car at any time I can already see these funny compilations using this ability.
Also, we will not be able to remove the entire corporation or the entire gang from the city, but we can influence their further functioning.

Source: watch?v=GQYh2d9OMIc on youtube (in polish, have fun )

kinda like Geralts Roach summons from Witcher 3. Remember there being a few funny videos of them... although I do not expect V's car to get stuck up trees... :P

[Edge-]

Yes, I'm sure some PnP writer clearly predicted the hyperbolic whinging of folks in 2019 over nonsense 30 years ago.

Good lord, the mountains people will make out of molehills. As far as I know that's far from unique, or even the earliest that line of thought has been offered in fiction. Dystopian futures have long been popular in sci-fi, covering all kinds of different futures and the events that led to them turning into dystopias.

But I guess because you can occasionally find a guy that happened to write something that is a bit similar to what we may be seeing right now (hyperbole aside), they're some sort of prophet or something.

/shrugs

Folks take all this shit way too seriously. This is fucking videogames, and the hate on both sides seems pretty equally hyperbolic and dumb based off of what I've seen so far.

[Post]

I'm not.

I'm pointing out that it's clearly meant to be read as some future scholar's interpretation, not reality. Given the first line. And that this interpretation is directly contradicted by its own description of "unity".

"Unreliable narrators" are a thing, y'know.

You're just choosing to believe that the official story isn't true. That when they wrote this, they decided to write bullshit, and know that people would interpret that line as the backstory being bullshit. That's an intense stretch, just to make this passage fit with your political beliefs.

[Endus]

You're just choosing to believe that the official story isn't true. That when they wrote this, they decided to write bullshit, and know that people would interpret that line as the backstory being bullshit. That's an intense stretch, just to make this passage fit with your political beliefs.

Yeah, no. None of that makes any sense.

The "official story", in this case, is explicitly fiction to begin with.
The narrator is not presented as reliable, and you're citing a passage meant to indicate that as if you believe the ahistorical bafflegab to be fact.
It's the background lore for a sci-fi role-playing game. It's all "bullshit".

The only people doing any "stretching" are those, like yourself, who want to argue that a niche cyberpunk RPG from the '80s and '90s was somehow prophetically aligned with the alt-right, when the entire concept of cyberpunk is aggressively opposed to basically everything the alt-right stand for.

Yes, it's meant as commentary on society. You're ignoring what they're actually saying.

By the standard you're using, Orwell's Big Brother from 1984 is a totes lovable guy and everyone should love him and that's the moral of the story.

[Post]

The narrator is not presented as reliable

The consensus of historical scholars = not presented as reliable? What?

and you're citing a passage meant to indicate that

That's your interpretation because you want it to agree with your ideology.

The only people doing any "stretching" are those, like yourself, who want to argue that a niche cyberpunk RPG from the '80s and '90s was somehow prophetically aligned with the alt-right, when the entire concept of cyberpunk is aggressively opposed to basically everything the alt-right stand for.

I don't give a shit about the alt right, and I don't think this was some prophecy. I think it happens to align with some current trends (because it's a logical possibility, similar to 1984), and I think your interpretation is silly.

Yes, it's meant as commentary on society. You're ignoring what they're actually saying.

By the standard you're using, Orwell's Big Brother from 1984 is a totes lovable guy and everyone should love him and that's the moral of the story.

Holy shit that's an even bigger stretch than your original claim. Your argument is essentially that what Winston is telling us is wrong, he's an unreliable narrator because it makes the subject matter more palatable.

[Witchblade77]

so I wonder just how badly those in game uber trips are going to add up. I tend to not particularly enjoy most driving mechanics in video games, so its nice to be able to have an option to use AI taxi, but they said its going to cost me. like.... i'm going to have to rob a bank cost me? hmm.

[Sorceroar]

Since not many of us here will speak polish, I'm curious about the spider bot part. What is he talking there? Since the trailer I've been wondering if they moved the start of the game backwards from the previous demo. Is there anything about that in the interview?

"The only pet in the game is spiderbot and it's the player's support. You can improve/upgrade the spiderbot and add new functionalities. Also, you can combine spiderbot abilities with other character skills like heavy weapons or melee weapons etc."

Generally, this is another element that allows you to complete most quests the way you want.
And apparently, you can finish the game without killing anyone.

[Cosmic Janitor]

so I wonder just how badly those in game uber trips are going to add up. I tend to not particularly enjoy most driving mechanics in video games, so its nice to be able to have an option to use AI taxi, but they said its going to cost me. like.... i'm going to have to rob a bank cost me? hmm.

I doubt a taxi ride will bankrupt you.

- - - Updated - - -

"The only pet in the game is spiderbot and it's the player's support. You can improve/upgrade the spiderbot and add new functionalities. Also, you can combine spiderbot abilities with other character skills like heavy weapons or melee weapons etc."

Generally, this is another element that allows you to complete most quests the way you want.
And apparently, you can finish the game without killing anyone.

Ah thank you for the summary. I just repeatatly heared "spider bot" while skimmung through the interview and was curious what they could be talking so much about. Interesting, didn't know about the option to play around with it outside of the demo mission.

- - - Updated - - -

Entropism was my first choice, but then saw Neo and was like... Yup! I need all that sleek black gear, and then combat starts and BOOM. Mantis Blade IN YO FACE!

I absolutely want to play at least one character with maximum tech and complete disregard to my perceived humanity (if that is part of the game). Like an Adamn Jensen that is not a pussy .

[Endus]

The consensus of historical scholars = not presented as reliable? What?

You get that it's a fictional character writing that, right?
And that said fictional character is writing with their own biases?

Literally what "unreliable narrator" means. You can't automatically take things a narrator describes, in a fictional story, to be fact. They only describe that narrator's point of view.

That's your interpretation because you want it to agree with your ideology.

No, it's the only interpretation, because of what the word "diversity" means in this context.

Accepting the cultural differences of others. Which the passage explicitly describes as being the strength of the Nomads.

This isn't "ideology", this is "what words mean in English".

Holy shit that's an even bigger stretch than your original claim. Your argument is essentially that what Winston is telling us is wrong, he's an unreliable narrator because it makes the subject matter more palatable.

Dude, have you read the book? Winston becomes an unreliable narrator in the end, because he succumbs to brainwashing. Literally the entire point of the fucking book.

That last line isn't a victory, it's Winston losing himself. Yes, he's "wrong".

[Gallahadd]

I absolutely want to play at least one character with maximum tech and complete disregard to my perceived humanity (if that is part of the game). Like an Adamn Jensen that is not a pussy .

For SURE! My first character will probably be relatively "nice". Not a total pussy, but not overtly mean, either.

But then I'm 100% rolling a cold mother fucker, probably a sniper, who is modded to shit and just no longer gives even the slightest fuck. I have a feeling, that will be a very fun, but short, run.

[Super Kami Dende]

Oh look found another one.

In literally every video game unless it's a hardcore and realistic sim game you are doing shit that isn't realistic. This is a weak ass argument for characters looking out of place in comparison to the rest of the world just so they can be "dream girl" bait.

And yes, Ciri is tacky sexualized. Not even cool sexualized like you would see from a Japanese game or anime. She is literally an emo scene girl with terrible black eye makeup, white hair and green eyes. Literally every 16 year old edge lords dream girl, and she was made that way on purpose.

Your trash opinion is noted.

[Makabreska]

For SURE! My first character will probably be relatively "nice". Not a total pussy, but not overtly mean, either.

But then I'm 100% rolling a cold mother fucker, probably a sniper, who is modded to shit and just no longer gives even the slightest fuck. I have a feeling, that will be a very fun, but short, run.

I hope stealth is done well and viable. I love stealthy approach.

[Witchblade77]

I doubt a taxi ride will bankrupt you.

- - - Updated - - -



Ah thank you for the summary. I just repeatatly heared "spider bot" while skimmung through the interview and was curious what they could be talking so much about. Interesting, didn't know about the option to play around with it outside of the demo mission.

- - - Updated - - -



I absolutely want to play at least one character with maximum tech and complete disregard to my perceived humanity (if that is part of the game). Like an Adamn Jensen that is not a pussy .

a single ride, probably not. but repeated ride? in interviews they mentioned that those rides add up. so i wonder if I'll be able to just casually use those rides any time i need to get somewhere i don't feel like walking, or have to keep them for special occasions only, unless i rob a few banks or something.

[Post]

You get that it's a fictional character writing that, right?
And that said fictional character is writing with their own biases?

Literally what "unreliable narrator" means. You can't automatically take things a narrator describes, in a fictional story, to be fact. They only describe that narrator's point of view.

With that logic you could say the second half isn't accurate either, if that's what you want to be true.

No, it's the only interpretation, because of what the word "diversity" means in this context.

You can't pull the "oh we don't know if it's true cuz unreliable narrator (and history that's agreed upon within the world)" and then say there's only 1 interpretation. That's ridiculous.

Accepting the cultural differences of others. Which the passage explicitly describes as being the strength of the Nomads.

Yes, because they have dropped the identity politics bullshit because they have to fight just to survive after society was essentially destroyed. We've been over this.

Dude, have you read the book? Winston becomes an unreliable narrator in the end, because he succumbs to brainwashing. Literally the entire point of the fucking book.

Obviously I'm not talking about the very end.

[Endus]

With that logic you could say the second half isn't accurate either, if that's what you want to be true.

I'm not arguing that the second half has any objective truth to it; it's still fiction, and still written by the same person.

I'm pointing out that the second half creates an internal contradiction to the first half. That identifies a failure in reasoning of the supposed author.

We can argue about whether the issue is the hypothetical fictional author is the one who's contradicting themselves, due to bias and shoddy research, or if it's the meta-author in reality who wrote the splatbook who's contradicting themselves, but the fact that there's a contradiction in there remains true regardless of who the source of the contradiction may be.

You can't pull the "oh we don't know if it's true cuz unreliable narrator (and history that's agreed upon within the world)" and then say there's only 1 interpretation. That's ridiculous.

Again, we can talk about whether the fictional author understood what "diversity" means, or if the splatbook author did. But it doesn't really matter, since they describe a diversity-based, inclusive society as a strength for the Nomads, while blaming diversity-based, inclusive society for the Collapse. That's a contradiction.

I'm not arguing about why there's a contradiction in there. I'm just noting that there objectively is one.

Yes, because they have dropped the identity politics bullshit because they have to fight just to survive after society was essentially destroyed. We've been over this.

Well, that's a lie, because they clearly didn't. Their identity and cultural differences is the core of the Nomad tribes, as described in that book.

I'm really not sure if the issue here is the splatbook, or just that you really don't understand what "diversity" or "identity politics" even mean.

Obviously I'm not talking about the very end.

Given that I was, was there any particular reason you decided to shift those goalposts, then?

[Post]

I'm not arguing that the second half has any objective truth to it; it's still fiction, and still written by the same person.

I'm pointing out that the second half creates an internal contradiction to the first half. That identifies a failure in reasoning of the supposed author.

It's not a contradiction though, it's a shift in priorities. You can sit here and think race is super important, but when you're in a firefight in the middle of the desert somewhere, you wouldn't give a shit what color the other person's skin is.

Again, we can talk about whether the fictional author understood what "diversity" means, or if the splatbook author did. But it doesn't really matter, since they describe a diversity-based, inclusive society as a strength for the Nomads, while blaming diversity-based, inclusive society for the Collapse. That's a contradiction.

Again, it's because identity politics essentially destroyed society that caused their outlook to change.

Well, that's a lie, because they clearly didn't. Their identity and cultural differences is the core of the Nomad tribes, as described in that book.

They just accept people, they stopped trying to call everyone racist/sexist/"even worse" for personal gain out of necessity. They have to drop their differences to survive, it says it right there in the passage.

Given that I was, was there any particular reason you decided to shift those goalposts, then?

I guess I misunderstood what you said, because I was referring to the first 85% of the story where he is basically the definition of a reliable narrator.