5 reasons why Demon Hunters won't be a class in WoW

[Wildberry]

[QUOTE=Talen;20827651]A lot of links designed to show that a plate designation doesn't always mean plate.

Old news.

Or were you trying to point out that the demon hunters appears to be wearing plate armour? or rather, armor with a plate designation?



Unless Blizzard decides that the Glyph/DA/whatever should be used to allow for warlock tanking at which point every single one of these and similar arguments goes "bye-bye" because the Glyph will mean the Warlock has trained to incorporate the melee tanking role into his skill set.

Illidan Tanked Mannoroth? Do you mean Magtheridon? /quote]

No - Mannoroth.



Ahhhm......Well of Eternity instance. He tanks Mannoroth.




Cloth wearing mana using meleer with spell like capabilities making use of Demon form.



Lore wise..true. Gameplay wise? Not so much. Cloth looking armor? Yes. Melee capability (via Glyph)? Yes. Mana using? Yes. Demon form? Yes. Actual playstyle? Totally undeveloped and could be anything.



Yes...and when you get some proof that armor designation actually indicates the physical type, let me know. To be more accurate on my part - Demon Hunters wear cloth like armour.



It has no mention of Illidan tanking Mannoroth either but he still did it. Not to mention the sheer amount of information it draws from the RPG.



Different orders, different values, different lore, different beliefs, different histories, different stories, different histories but the exact same playstyle and they are reffered to as paladins within the game irrespective of their actual origin. A Demon Hunter put in place as a Warlock spec would be in the exact same position.

EJL

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 06:29 AM ----------



Yes. Thing is....Wowpedia is not always accurate.

And when you get two Tauren talking about druidic principles, how they spent their time in Moonglade and having one refer to both as druids, I think it safe to say the game should take precedence. They are druids.

EJL

What I'm saying about the armor, is that it's rather obvious they aren't strictly limited to cloth.

Oh, you mean the WoE, excuse that, that is my bad. Regardless, Just because he manages to stand toe to toe with Mannoroth does not make him a tank (Otherwise we should let Shamans be tanks because of Thrall in CoT etc.) there's nothing really in the Illidan encounter, nor in any of WCIII to suggest DH's would be tanks, and really leans heavily towards DPS.

Care to provide any source that says DH's only wear cloth?
Also as far as mana goes, Blade Masters, Mountain Kings, Tauren Chieftans, Death Knights, Wardens (which the rogue drew from) etc. ALL used mana, WCIII Game mechanics=/=lore.

Cloth Looking armor? No source. Melee Capability? When you have Demon Form active (DH's are melee out of Demon Form) Mana Using? See above argument. Demon Form? Can be easily changed just like Death Coil. Actual Playstyle? Fast paced Melee fighter that augments their attacks with Demonic magics, it's already established.

http://www.wowpedia.org/File:Loramus_Thalipedes.jpg?c=1 (Mail/Plate Shoulders [metal and rivets] Mail Gloves [Chain around the wrist] Leather Kilt [Fur, Scales, and Hide]

I assume whenever Garrosh and Varian fight, they're tanking one another right? No? The same goes for Illidan and Mannoroth, Holding your own against a foe =/= tank

(It seems like you're trying to shoehorn demon hunters into what you believe they should be, Warlock tanks, which they're not)

that's not the exact same playstyle, to try and argue that at this point is absolute stupidity, I'm sorry but there is no other word for that. For "proof" you're comparing different paladin orders, when what you should be comparing is the priest class to the paladin class. I'm not even going to argue this point anymore, if you remain unconvinced then go ahead, hopefully people who read this aren't as dense.

Something I would like to touch on a bit more, is that nobody here arguing for Demon Hunters is using their "personal vision of the class" we're going off from the information given to us through many sources by Blizzard, whereas you're twisting things and making ridiculous claims (Illidan tanked Mannoroth)

[raziel083]

[/COLOR]

runemaster was one of the classes proposed for wrath of the lich king along with necromancer, death knight, and demon hunter.

they ended up meshing the first three together into what is now the modern deathknight[/QUOTE]

Has it crept up or popped up anywhere from blizzard that it is still a possibility? I could see why they went with deathknight for wrath. It fit the lore very well. So it would seem like that's more or less why they didn't go with runemaster at that point.

Also another suggestion also, is instead of having a new class..and since a lot of the potential new classes are so similar to the ones currently in the game, why not just a 4th spec? A "heroic spec" or whatever obtained or unlocked through a certain way. For example:

Druid -> archdruid spec
deathknight---->
Hunter---- > Dark Ranger
Mage---> Battlemage spec
Monk---> ?
Paladin----> ?
Priest---> Holy Monk? like the ones in the scarlet Monastary? Some type of Melee....really don't know with this one
Rogue--->Demon Hunter Spec
Shaman--->Runemaster Sp[ec
Warlock---->Necromancer Spec
Warrior---->Blademaster Spec

Whether this has been suggested in recent posts like this I'm not sure. It was brought up a few years ago that i remember. I feel it would solve that problem EVERYONE is bringing up of the fact that every class would seem like it would be way too similar to what already exists. And it would be something new.

[Immitis]

[/COLOR]

runemaster was one of the classes proposed for wrath of the lich king along with necromancer, death knight, and demon hunter.

they ended up meshing the first three together into what is now the modern deathknight

Has it crept up or popped up anywhere from blizzard that it is still a possibility? I could see why they went with deathknight for wrath. It fit the lore very well. So it would seem like that's more or less why they didn't go with runemaster at that point.

Also another suggestion also, is instead of having a new class..and since a lot of the potential new classes are so similar to the ones currently in the game, why not just a 4th spec? A "heroic spec" or whatever obtained or unlocked through a certain way. For example:

Druid -> archdruid spec
deathknight---->
Hunter---- > Dark Ranger
Mage---> Battlemage spec
Monk---> ?
Paladin----> ?
Priest---> Holy Monk? like the ones in the scarlet Monastary? Some type of Melee....really don't know with this one
Rogue--->Demon Hunter Spec
Shaman--->Runemaster Sp[ec
Warlock---->Necromancer Spec
Warrior---->Blademaster Spec

Whether this has been suggested in recent posts like this I'm not sure. It was brought up a few years ago that i remember. I feel it would solve that problem EVERYONE is bringing up of the fact that every class would seem like it would be way too similar to what already exists. And it would be something new.[/QUOTE]

a 4th spc would just be really messy, when you think about it, it would be like adding 3 and half new classes.

and i dont think blizzard has really mentioned them much outside of the rpg books so its tough to know but i think theres still enough different that a new class could be made

[Wildmoon]

If Blizzard want to make DH happen then they MUST find some way to give them metamorphosis. It's the ability that defines DH. It's the whole theme of the class. DH without meta? That's BS.

[raziel083]

a 4th spc would just be really messy, when you think about it, it would be like adding 3 and half new classes.

and i dont think blizzard has really mentioned them much outside of the rpg books so its tough to know but i think theres still enough different that a new class could be made

It'll be interesting to see what they go with. I hear the burning legion is possibly gonna be a big part or the theme to the next expansion again. If thats the case...going with lore and theme. I'd have to say Demon Hunter.

[Wildmoon]

It'll be interesting to see what they go with. I hear the burning legion is possibly gonna be a big part or the theme to the next expansion again. If thats the case...going with lore and theme. I'd have to say Demon Hunter.

My guess is that there will be no new class.

[Immitis]

My guess is that there will be no new class.

eh its the 10th anniversary. i see them trying to add as much as possible to make people hyped up

[Olrox]

While the idea of fourth specs is neat and all, it's not happening. They have enough trouble doing a single class with three specs and keeping it relevant/balanced/etc - can you imagine them rocking the boat by adding eleven new specs to the game? Despite that it's not a "new" class with tech and such that isn't already in the game, it would take far more time to make sure you're introducing entirely unique mechanics that aren't going to overly resemble or eclipse existing mechanics while also making them fresh and fun to play.

I honestly can't see fourth specs ever happening; it'd be more disruptive than adding a new class and Blizzard already has a lot of trouble with that. I agree that fourth specs for every existing class would be really neat - it'd really drastically increase your options as a player; however, it'd be a lot of work for them to do and would probably create even more work inherently because 99% of players would probably switch to the new specs just because they're so new; this isn't the case with classes where the commitment to swap is significantly larger and more costly.

My only worry about the next expansion is that it won't have a new class or race because I've read a few convincing posts here talking about how the Monk still hasn't "caught on" with the player base and is the least-played class...something that wasn't really true of the Death Knight when they were introduced and I believe the DK still has a pretty solid number of active players. Granted, one class is always going to be the least-played; I just recall someone presenting some evidence (as strong as we can find as players...assuming it's something that parses info from the Armory or some such) that Monks were much lower in population than the next class (I think it was rogue?)

Anyway, I honestly would expect the Demon Hunter as our next class and I also fully expect it to have the following trees:

Melee DPS - Dual wield, agi mail armor, similar to the DK in its arsenal of mostly melee but also some spell-type instants
Ranged DPS - a more demon-magic spec with cast-time spells and some instants, using spell mail ala Elemental Shaman
Tank - probably DW since I doubt DH would use any of the currently-available 2h types, using AGI mail like its melee counterpart, would work since they certainly have pulled it off with Feral Guardians wearing the same sorts of gear as cat and rogues - that is, there's no more strength leather or leather with tanky stats

I say the above because I can't see them doing another DK where it's two DPS of the same "range" (that is, they wouldn't do two DPS that are melee) and one other type and the mail classes already have one pure DPS and one three-way hybrid - there's also not a mail tank yet and I think DKs and Monks have easily proven to us that the type of weapons you wield and armor you wear don't really preclude you from being a tank.

Also for some of you above - Why do you give any crap for if the Demon Hunter ended up with a tank tree? I'm fairly certain Blizzard will never add another pure role class to the game and it makes sense that if we have two leather and three plate tanks, why not a mail tank? There are still two other trees for DPS and I don't think a healing DH is going to happen, so you guys who want DPS will get the two types a DH can be plus a tank...it's not like the DH would remotely benefit from three DPS specs...what would they be? Melee, Ranged and MeleeRanged? No.

I do have to wonder how they'd incorporate Metamorphosis though; as someone earlier mentioned, it's not exactly an ability that all DH are known to have mastered and when they did, even Illidan and Leotheras, like their WC3 counterparts, swapped to ranged mode when in Demon Form...so would we get more of a savage melee demon or would we see the first class that swaps fighting distance (legitimately, not like a DK who gets DC/HB spam when the boss is out of range) regularly in boss fights? I can't see that happening.

[Immitis]

what i want from the next expansion? demon hunters thats all.

they could have the expansion be called me'dan and the super friends and the bad guy could be the titans who are actually murlocs who were actually created by the raptors who are actually an alien race of super hyper intelligent dinosaurs and the playable race could be hamsters and sardine sammiches.

I DONT CARE. if you add in demon hunters i will say it is the best expansion of all time

[Wildmoon]

what i want from the next expansion? demon hunters thats all.

they could have the expansion be called me'dan and the super friends and the bad guy could be the titans who are actually murlocs who were actually created by the raptors who are actually an alien race of super hyper intelligent dinosaurs and the playable race could be hamsters and sardine sammiches.

I DONT CARE. if you add in demon hunters i will say it is the best expansion of all time

lol your idea sounds more interesting than DH itself.

[Deleted]

The thing about metamorphis is that Illidan couldn't do Metamorphis untill after he consumed the skull of Guldan. Warlocks can do meta because of their connection with demons. I'd like to believe we could have "real" demon *hunters*, not demon friendlies. If we get them with a Legion themed xpack it would also make sense to have a "uncorrupted" Demon Hunter class, since we'll be taking the fight to the demons.

It would deviate from WC3 and Illidan, but would make a lot more sense from a lore perspective.


I see strong paralels to the first orc Deathknights that were created, where the playable class we have is the "new" Deathknight class instead.

[Immitis]

The thing about metamorphis is that Illidan couldn't do Metamorphis untill after he consumed the skull of Guldan. Warlocks can do meta because of their connection with demons. I'd like to believe we could have "real" demon *hunters*, not demon friendlies. If we get them with a Legion themed xpack it would also make sense to have a "uncorrupted" Demon Hunter class, since we'll be taking the fight to the demons.

It would deviate from WC3 and Illidan, but would make a lot more sense from a lore perspective.


I see strong paralels to the first orc Deathknights that were created, where the playable class we have is the "new" Deathknight class instead.

i would be completely fine with that as long as they kept the demonic samurai feel to it

[Wildmoon]

i would be completely fine with that as long as they kept the demonic samurai feel to it

I don't see how DH have anything to do with samurai. If there's a class that was inspired by samurai, I think it's bladmaster.

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 07:33 AM ----------

The thing about metamorphis is that Illidan couldn't do Metamorphis untill after he consumed the skull of Guldan. Warlocks can do meta because of their connection with demons. I'd like to believe we could have "real" demon *hunters*, not demon friendlies. If we get them with a Legion themed xpack it would also make sense to have a "uncorrupted" Demon Hunter class, since we'll be taking the fight to the demons.

It would deviate from WC3 and Illidan, but would make a lot more sense from a lore perspective.


I see strong paralels to the first orc Deathknights that were created, where the playable class we have is the "new" Deathknight class instead.

That would be pretty disappionting. People want DH not some class that base on DH. DH's identity itself is about fighting fire with fire. Post-Illidan DH willingly bounded a demon within themself so they can turn into demon. Leotheras is the example of DH who couldn't pass the ritual. He lost his mind and was strunggling to hold the demon within himself.

[Immitis]

I don't see how DH have anything to do with samurai.

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 07:33 AM ----------



That would be pretty disappionting. People want DH not some class that base on DH. DH's identity itself is about fighting fire with fire. Post-Illidan DH willingly bounded a demon within themself so they can turn into demon. Leotheras is the example of DH who couldn't pass the ritual. He lost his mind and was strunggling to hold the demon within himself.

weve been through this before, they are samurai

[Wildmoon]

weve been through this before, they are samurai

umm I don't think so.

[Talen]

What I'm saying about the armor, is that it's rather obvious they aren't strictly limited to cloth.

I know what you are trying to say.

But the ingame look of a DH is that they are cloth wearers. That some clothlooking gear is labelled as "plate" is in this sense irrelevant. I could point out some DH gear in game is also classed as mail or leather.

Going for a DH look, however, they wear gear that looks like cloth. Does that mean Blizzard need to design them around that? No. But it doesn't rule out Warlocks either and the "cloth" look is easier to acheive with a cloth wearer.

Oh, you mean the WoE, excuse that, that is my bad. Regardless, Just because he manages to stand toe to toe with Mannoroth does not make him a tank (Otherwise we should let Shamans be tanks because of Thrall in CoT etc.) there's nothing really in the Illidan encounter, nor in any of WCIII to suggest DH's would be tanks, and really leans heavily towards DPS.

He fills a tanking role. He is a Demon Hunter. And Shamans have tanking tools, even if they aren't really that good at it. Either way, the point is you can't say DHs don't tank. His leaning towards DPS is also your own interpretation. He does, for example, have taunt.

Also as far as mana goes, Blade Masters, Mountain Kings, Tauren Chieftans, Death Knights, Wardens (which the rogue drew from) etc. ALL used mana, WCIII Game mechanics=/=lore.

IIRC -Illidan has a mana pool in WoE.

Cloth Looking armor? No source.

Illidan and every single DH in game. It can be classed as anything...but it looks like cloth.

Melee Capability? When you have Demon Form active (DH's are melee out of Demon Form) Mana Using? See above argument. Demon Form? Can be easily changed just like Death Coil. Actual Playstyle? Fast paced Melee fighter that augments their attacks with Demonic magics, it's already established.

Again...a lot of "This is how I see them as working" here. And no - Demon Form cannot easily be changed. Its still going to be Metamorphosis and its still going to dilute the Warlocks arsenal. Its iconic for both - but the Warlock has it ingame. To put it another way, there was a fair upset when Shaman got imbue weapon because it worked essentially like the Seal/Judgement system for Paladins. And you think changing Metamorphosis or handing it out to another class won't get a similar response?

http://www.wowpedia.org/File:Loramus_Thalipedes.jpg?c=1 (Mail/Plate Shoulders [metal and rivets] Mail Gloves [Chain around the wrist] Leather Kilt [Fur, Scales, and Hide]

My jeans have rivets. My jeans are not classed as mail armor

(It seems like you're trying to shoehorn demon hunters into what you believe they should be, Warlock tanks, which they're not)

No. I'd actually prefer a D3 version but that would work best as a Hunter mod. Just as a Ranger could be slotted into a Rogues setup.

I'm saying

A: It is possible Blizzard can create a Demon Hunter as a Warlock spec because B: they essentially have already done so with the Glyph of Demon Hunting in Beta and, as a result, there is less need for them to actually create time and effort implementing a brand new class that has several problems with it.

Does that mean they won't create a DH class? No. Just that there is a route for it to exist in game that doesn't entail the creation of a new class. And the objections over lore, history, feel, values etc won't matter one bit because they haven't elsewhere.

making ridiculous claims (Illidan tanked Mannoroth)

Illidan stood in front of Mannoroth and taunted him 6 seconds. Don't know about you, but I call that tanking.

EJL

[Kathranis]

weve been through this before, they are samurai

The only thing "samurai" about them is that they wear hakama, traditional samurai pants, though they have long since been worn by practitioners of many different Japanese martial arts.

Speaking frankly, the samurai were military nobility and played a role roughly analagous to the knights of medieval europe. They wore heavy lamellar armor, wielded swords, spears, and bows, and often fought on horseback. They were bound by strict traditions and a code of honor.

I see no strong parallels or inspiration in the demon hunters. As Wildmoon says, if there is any hero unit based on samurai it would be the Blademasters, who were depicted wearing various samurai armor components (including hakama, sode, kote, haidate, and most prominently the sashimono banners and juzu prayer beads). Most telling, however, was the fact that the Blademasters were pretty much all named after samurai from Samurai Showdown.


Demon Hunter lore is pretty nonexistant outside of the RPGs, which, as we all know, are not strictly canon. In the RPG, and generally speaking the actual game and artwork, they wear light armor (classified as cloth / leather) and are agility/intellect based, using a combination of melee skills and spell casting. In fact, they generally wear as little armor as possible; in the RPG they specifically eschew armor because armor of any sort hinders their "arcane gestures," and any armor heavier than light armor impedes their movement and slows them down.

[Olrox]

The thing about metamorphis is that Illidan couldn't do Metamorphis untill after he consumed the skull of Guldan. Warlocks can do meta because of their connection with demons. I'd like to believe we could have "real" demon *hunters*, not demon friendlies. If we get them with a Legion themed xpack it would also make sense to have a "uncorrupted" Demon Hunter class, since we'll be taking the fight to the demons.

It would deviate from WC3 and Illidan, but would make a lot more sense from a lore perspective.


I see strong paralels to the first orc Deathknights that were created, where the playable class we have is the "new" Deathknight class instead.

Well, we have the "new" Death Knight class because it's more based on the WC3 one than the older one, which was more (aesthetically especially) of a caster, since they were all orcs and all former warlocks - they didn't really have the identity then that they gained in WC3 - the old DKs didn't have the Scourge to be part of.

The Demon Hunter, on the other hand, kinda can't be "uncorrupted" as you are saying; part of their whole thing is that they are in touch with things demonic, that's how they hunt them so well. I mean, player DKs are still undead creatures and still use some pretty horrific and unspeakable powers (like warlocks) to kill their enemies and solve problems; yet I don't consider my character a corrupt or evil guy - I killed the damn Lich King and stopped a since-gone-nuts dragon from blowing up our planet.

The problem with the Demon Hunter is the word "Hunter" being in it - it's pretty hard to introduce a whole class around the idea that they're pros at taking down one kind of enemy - then you have to wonder how they hold up against the myriad of other threats. Granted, in WC3 they mostly fight the other playable races, none of which are largely composed of demons, despite the presence of missions involving demons.

[Kathranis]

The thing about metamorphis is that Illidan couldn't do Metamorphis untill after he consumed the skull of Guldan.

That's actually not true. Metamorphosis becomes available to any demon hunter in Warcraft III at level 6, including Illidan.

Illidan consumed the Skull of Gul'dan at the end of Reign of Chaos, but could use Metamorphosis well before that. He simply underwent a permanent demonic transformation at that point in the story, and in The Frozen Throne he got a unique hero unit model to reflect it, with always-on wings, horns, and hooves. In TFT Metamorphosis simply turned him black with a green glow, same as when he uses it in Black Temple.

[Immitis]

i dont see how they are not samurai demon hunters are clearly samurai. the blademasters are based off the Japanese soldiers that wore the flags , they are under the samurai in the hierarchy and are more drumboys with swords.










their shirtless samurai with glaives instead of katana







blademasters are based of the ashigaru, samurai didnt wear flags in japan only the soldiers did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashigaru

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 04:33 AM ----------

wait a second O-O if demon hunters are demon samurai how come they dont have dog ears?