To those with some psychology background/study....

[Tomec]

I'm wondering just how much body language says about what you really want... even if it's subconsciously.

Now, for those who like some context please continue to read. However be warned this is is sort of a "is she into me" type thing....


Basically long story short(ish) I invited a "close" girl friend to stay the night and go to the movies. Now she does have a BF (who I've never met lol), but she agreed without any hesitation despite having never stayed over at my place before.

Now where the body language thing comes into play is the movies... It was pretty empty and we actually (almost) had a row to ourselves. Yet not only did she sit next to me, I swear about 75% of the time we were touching in some way. Our legs were touching, feet touching, she was leaning into me (and not to like whisper something about the movie). It just generally felt like we were close and to be frank my mind was screaming "put your arm around her!" but I didn't.

Now I know that sometimes I can read too much into things, which is a reason that I didn't put my arm around her, but there is more to it than that...

Some of the things we were talking earlier tonight (oh yea she's over here right now rofl) and even things we did kind of are leading me to that too. Some of the things we did... well if she didn't have clothes on would have been rated XXX. In fact as it was it was borderline softcore porn, and could have earned at least an R (and maybe NC-17) rating if it was in a film lol. Plus the things we talked about... her life story, my life story, and all sorts of sexy things.


I would love to hear the opinions from someone who has some psych background and just people in general on that. I know that a lot of times "mind readers" are really just like highly observant to things like subconscious tells and body language. I really wonder what someone with that kind of background would think/say to everything... especially since she has a BF some just seem REALLY odd.

[aztr0]

She's a cheater. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You might want to pass.

I was once in this situation. The girl had a class with me, and our friendship kind of just blew up fast. I found myself not really knowing her personal stuff. So we would be close, doing close friend things. Some people even thought we were going out at the time. But truth of the matter is, she was already seeing someone else. I asked her out officially and she declined (I didn't know she had a BF at the time). I found out that she was going over some troubled times with her BF later; she cheated with some guy after they had smoked weed together (not once or twice from what I've gathered). Anyways, lesson learned. Do not assume anything just because the girl is getting all close with you.

[Tomec]

She's a cheater.

I'd be lieing if I said that that thought hadn't crossed my mind... But at the same time she's not in here jumping my junk as it were rofl. Which is more what I would expect. Now that doesn't mean she isn't playing hard to get and is one though.

Edit: So after reading your edit azTr0 I will fully admit that there are some similarities. However I've known her for about a year and it's been more of a slow build than blowup I think. Though I've learned more today than in the year for sure heh. But she's also been totally upfront with the fact she has a BF (who doesn't like me supposedly) so I'm not sure.

I'm also not trying to assume anything, and certainly am not going to go into the next room and be all like "lets do it!" lol. More so I'm wondering if maybe subconsciously she's just getting tired of him. Which is obviously another reason to pass in a sense, but at the same time it's like "well hey if you want to be friendly... why not until I find someone "better" and I'll be prepared if you do do something" lol

[Zhangfei]

Why would you need someone from a "psych" background? This is a common sense case; she's clearly heavily flirting with you and keeping you interested. Is she doing it because she's genuine? Is she doing it because she's mad at her bf? Is she doing it because she has no sense of propriety? Those are not body language issues, but personal ones. Each presents a unique issue to resolve.

One hopes it is not putting you into that worse than friend-zone situation which is keep-you-interested-indefinitely-zone.

Whatever the issue is, she's clearly a cheat and that's a bad thing.

[Tomec]

Why would you need someone from a "psych" background?

Well I did say (or thought I did) from anyone else. I suppose I'm just curious about what they'd say. But the more I think about it the more I'm wondering if in an effort not to overthink things and make a "wrong move" and lose a friend (of which she is one of the few that's made it to close and not just friendly acquaintance) I may have UNDER thunk things. I mean I can definitely see how what I said could be taken as cheating and stuff.

Is she doing it because she's genuine? *snip* Each presents a unique issue to resolve. *snip* Whatever the issue is, she's clearly a cheat and that's a bad thing.

So just in the interest of devil's advocate (or maybe not...) why can't she like me more than her BF and just hasn't decided to drop him yet? Now she claims she's not interested in me that way and on multiple occasions I've made comments that go along the lines of "you should leave your BF and get with me" (but less blunt and more subtle) and she's been like "not happening". She's also not made any "romantic" moves like resting her head on my shoulder or holding my hand or something like that. But that "maybe like me more and not realize it thing" is where the psych comes into play.

Now the ultimate question though... if/when I meet the BF and if we ever go to some event together (like a movie... I mean nothing wrong with 3 "friends" seeing a film together when 2 are in a relationship... I do it all the time with other friends) and she does the same "lets be close" thing. What does THAT say heh.

Of course none of that means she may not still be a cheat. I mean not leaving your BF and teasing another guy? But (again devil's advocate/wishful thinking) maybe she just wants options. Doesn't mean I'm going to wait for her or be receptive though... trust me when I say I'm watching out (even more now) for that "keep interested all the time" thing. She starts trying to pull something like "oh I forgot my wallet... can you buy me a drink?" and she's GONE. Well "romantically", she's a fun friend even without that stuff.

[Zhangfei]

So just in the interest of devil's advocate (or maybe not...) why can't she like me more than her BF and just hasn't decided to drop him yet? Now she claims she's not interested in me that way and on multiple occasions I've made comments that go along the lines of "you should leave your BF and get with me" (but less blunt and more subtle) and she's been like "not happening". She's also not made any "romantic" moves like resting her head on my shoulder or holding my hand or something like that. But that "maybe like me more and not realize it thing" is where the psych comes into play.

So this is either:
1) You're misreading, she's entirely clean (I STRONGLY doubt this given your version of events)
2) She subconsciously likes you (she literally has no idea what to do as it's subconscious)
3) She subconsciously likes you more than her current bf (you run a terrible risk, probably not worth it)
4) She subconsciously likes you less than her current bf (you're screwed, get out)
5) She consciously likes you more than her a current bf (This is all a tease and she's a bit of a cheat, worry)
6) She consciously likes you less than her current bf (worst situation; she's torturing you)
7 She consciously likes you and wants to break up with bf (Ideal for you, not ideal as a general life situation)

Ugh, using Eastern logic systems but I feel that covers most bases. Which is your ideal? What would be the best? What would make you cut it off/make the move? Most options leave her looking pretty damn awful to me.

Now the ultimate question though... if/when I meet the BF and if we ever go to some event together (like a movie... I mean nothing wrong with 3 "friends" seeing a film together when 2 are in a relationship... I do it all the time with other friends) and she does the same "lets be close" thing. What does THAT say heh.

She's a massive cheating skank, I'd say. If it happened and she likes you and she doesn't make a move, then she's human but entirely respectable. I'd still take a step back overall.

Of course none of that means she may not still be a cheat. I mean not leaving your BF and teasing another guy? But (again devil's advocate/wishful thinking) maybe she just wants options. Doesn't mean I'm going to wait for her or be receptive though... trust me when I say I'm watching out (even more now) for that "keep interested all the time" thing. She starts trying to pull something like "oh I forgot my wallet... can you buy me a drink?" and she's GONE. Well "romantically", she's a fun friend even without that stuff.

She may just be using feminine wiles to keep you interested for her ego and for attention. It happens a lot. I'd take an emotional step back, but not a "friendly" one, and imagine her as a sister for a while; if she's fine with your clear disrespect of flirting then she's a real friend and a reasonably future love interest. If she gets bored, she was playing you.

[DeltrusDisc]

She's a cheater. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You might want to pass.

A 15 year year old cheater is not the same as a married man cheating.

OP, read this to the girl I'm chatting with on Skype atm, she said, "she wants the D. No, she probably does want him though, honestly."

There ya go. Girls tend to be better at this thing, too.

[Tomec]

A 15 year year old cheater is not the same as a married man cheating.

Quite true, but at the same time I find that what one does in the past can tell you what they do in the future. Doesn't mean people can't change though. But a 15yo is just immature and doesn't know what she wants. A married man is a whole other thing.

OP, read this to the girl I'm chatting with on Skype atm, she said, "she wants the D. No, she probably does want him though, honestly."

There ya go. Girls tend to be better at this thing, too.

Nice to get a girl's perspective on this, even if it is second hand. I'm assuming by him she means me though heh. I could really use more girl friends cause you're right about the being better at this thing. Girls and guys just think like totally different rofl.

[Zhangfei]

Nice to get a girl's perspective on this, even if it is second hand. I'm assuming by him she means me though heh. I could really use more girl friends cause you're right about the being better at this thing. Girls and guys just think like totally different rofl.

No they don't, unless you're rampantly sexist. Yes they're raised to think and act differently but females are not some alien land of mystery with obtuse and bizarre words that cannot translate. They think as rationally as men but oftent act differently because of the interpretation of symbols. Women are actually fairly easy to grasp if you get past the idea they're mysterious and that men aren't meant to get them. I often find that's a lazy person's approach to gender relations.

Don't use that excuse and hope to find some magic girl key, find things out and learn for yourself!

[DeltrusDisc]

Quite true, but at the same time I find that what one does in the past can tell you what they do in the future. Doesn't mean people can't change though. But a 15yo is just immature and doesn't know what she wants. A married man is a whole other thing.

That's the whole point.

You grow up a lot from the teenage years to adult years, especially when you end up married/have kids. Teenagers aren't nearly fully developed in the "rational thinking and choice making" part of the brain anyways.

[Zhangfei]

That's the whole point.

You grow up a lot from the teenage years to adult years, especially when you end up married/have kids. Teenagers aren't nearly fully developed in the "rational thinking and choice making" part of the brain anyways.

Adolescence ends at around 25. It's why I literally give no respect to anyone who demands for people to "know what they want to do" until they're around 30. They've barely stepped into adulthood then!

[draganid]

i dont get what her being a cheater has to do with anything. its not like if you fuck her your going to have to marry her. so if shes down to fuck, what are YOU waiting for???? i personally find sex to be really empowering in general and fucking another guys woman really adds to that. trust me, you'll feel like a baws!

[Deleted]

I've been in this situation myself. I was spending time with a girl, and we did rlly close up things, even though she had a boy friend. I was playing the bigger man, always forgiving her and listening to her every problems, being her greater half. I constantly gave her time to think, and kept all my growing hatred for myself. Cuz i cant deny it was starting to grow because of her indecions. Eventually after half a year, it became to much and i blew over.

There was a period when she was completely enthralled with me, and it was there i shoulda forced her to break up with her bf, but i didnt. Learn from my mistakes son, dont be the gentleman, be the douche for once, and be rewarded.

Even to this day, i still long for her.

[Gandrake]

Some of the things we did... well if she didn't have clothes on would have been rated XXX. In fact as it was it was borderline softcore porn, and could have earned at least an R (and maybe NC-17) rating if it was in a film lol. Plus the things we talked about... her life story, my life story, and all sorts of sexy things.


I would love to hear the opinions from someone who has some psych background and just people in general on that. I know that a lot of times "mind readers" are really just like highly observant to things like subconscious tells and body language. I really wonder what someone with that kind of background would think/say to everything... especially since she has a BF some just seem REALLY odd.

So... what exactly do you want?

Because I know someone once said there is no such thing as a stupid question, but I am getting the distinct impression that you are asking us if she is into you after performing the ritual of face-sucking and fondling her yum-yums.

unless you're trying to say both of you beat someone to death

[Deleted]

I'm of the honest opinion that you need to create a dialogue about the issue with her, wether she likes you or not because a relationship (whatever status it may yield, friend, lover, enemy) is always based on trust, or the lack of it.
So far i can only conclude she feels physically safe with you, and to an unknown extent emotionally seeing as she shared her life story and the problems that come with that to some extent.
The problem you're facing isnt *should we have sex* or *does she like me more then her boyfriend* or even *is she a cheat*
The problem you truly face is howmuch she trusts you exactly and howmuch your trust yourself to trust her, what i mean with that is are you comfortable enough emotionally to deal with the answer she'll give you, no matter wich one it is? and is she prepared to give you an honest answer
In the end we're all people with a past that moulded us and nobody is to be labelled as anything, even a cheat because the reason they're driven to cheat is unknown to observers, it may be as simple as a large apetite for sex that not one person can fill or a much deeper hidden problem the person has with themself and their self esteem

I stray from my point though, as i see it right now you have options
One being just pushing the issue physically having a small chance at a lasting relationship
Another being to keep on flirting with eachother and dance around the issues as they come up staying friends with uncertain boundarys
Another being to push the issue emotionally and have her consider you a father-figure that she feels she can trust with her problems, someone who's there for her to help her, but intimicy will be a long way's away
And finally to talk things over on an equal level, simply create a conversational gateway to the topic you wish to discuss, ask her about her feelings or tell her yours and go from there, let her stear the conversation, if she feels safe with you she'll tell you when she has the chance

Remember that as previously brought up, women are just humans with a different chromosone, there's no mystery, there's no hidden secret, treat them the way you want them to treat you, be honest, and allow her to trust you

I hope this was in some way helpfull and not just the ramblings of a stranger, good luck

[DeltrusDisc]

Adolescence ends at around 25. It's why I literally give no respect to anyone who demands for people to "know what they want to do" until they're around 30. They've barely stepped into adulthood then!

I don't know about calling it adolescence.... O_o

But yes, there is some development in the brain that doesn't finish till around then, yes.

[Harpocrates]

if people understood woman from their body language alone, well..this thread would never have been created. Everyone is different. I'd say get with her and leave it at that, like you said you think too much and that's your problem.

[Deleted]

She's a cheater. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You might want to pass.

I've done this too yet I would never cheat. But either way, it's not good for you When things got bad with my ex bf and we had a fight almost daily and he sometimes even liked to remind me that he had female friends and that things might have happened with them when he was gone for the whole evening when things got heated.

Sooo I did something like you described with one of my dearest friends and I ended up sleeping with him and losing him as a friend after. I admit I used him to feel better about myself, to get even with my ex.. even to forget about my bf for a day. I know it was still wrong and he would have said no or see through it but I would never cheat first or in a healthy relationship.

[Tomec]

unless you're trying to say both of you beat someone to death

HEY! How do you know about that! Are you spying on me/us!? It was self defense I swear!

Sorry couldn't resist.


More seriously though...

draganid, while I see where you're coming from with that I don't really think thats exactly the best option. I mean I don't know the BF but there is still that "guy code" about not taking their girl. Although....

Predator128, very interesting. She's not exactly at the "oh woe is me" stage yet but if she starts, or makes a comment about her BF that could lead there, I'll definitely remember that.

Harpocrates, see what I said to draganid. But also I will admit to the over thinking. It's just the way my brain works and I doubt I'll ever be able to change it. Lord knows I've tried for the past 10+ years.

Marv213... Thats... well thats a pretty damn good way of looking at it. I think besides the over thinking I keep putting myself back in my shoes the last time something similar-ish to this happened. I got burned REALLY bad and it's hard to trust after that. So your thing about dancing around the issue may be best for right now.... Is it the most elegant? No. And I may miss out on something. But at the same time I think I'd rather miss out then be burned again. There are plenty of girls out there after all. Plus if she keeps it up, even if/when I meet her BF, then that just gives more ammo to "push" with when/if he screws up or I talk to her... preferably on equal level thing heh.


Edit: Lizbeth, didn't see your post when I was responding (took a few to write that much and make thoughts). Thanks for the sharing of that. One thing I do want to say though is AFAIK there isn't any kind of rift in the relationship between them currently. If there was then I would be way more hesitant (not that I'm not already...) for sure though.