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  1. #21
    First of all, it seems the raidleader(s) of your former raidgroup are not able to be confrontational, which is imo a first requirement to lead well. Confrontational does not mean to shout and abuse, but to be able to issue criticism, to remove people from raids if needed etc. To let leaving be up to members means you wont get anywhere, since few people wish to leave a raid by themself - and just because people are willing to does not mean they are the ones that should.

    Second, I dont get the whole drama. But that is up to you and yours - why should anyone (not) be able to talk to anyone? If you have a forum you could pose that question.

    Last, I dont get why you are so protective to that woman that treats you badly. Friendships should be mutual... if it is not, let it go. If people are worthy of you they show so by defending you when needed. If they let you in the mud, it is time to move on. Loyalty is a great thing for building relations- up to a point.

  2. #22
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Cardiff, Wales
    Sooo much drama. I think there is way too much drama here for WoW. I think you should cut your losses and move onto this new guild/server and not look back. You've already gone out of your way to try and keep this guild together, it seems like you've endured many frustrating wipes because you're a nice person who chose to raid with a guild and friends you were loyal too. When it all falls apart, you seem to have gone out of your way to try and hold it together. Now you're doing your best and trying to find a way to keep having fun and make things work out on a game you play for entertainment, and someone who is supposed to be your friend is creating drama and problems.

    You're obviously very emotionally invested here but at some point you have to cut loose and ask yourself - do you deserve being treated the way she's treated you? If you've been friends for a year and a half, you even seem to have her partner on facebook so clearly you know her some outside of WoW - you've defended her and stuck up for her to your own detriment, and now she's having a tantrum and has removed you from realid and is threatening to add you to ignore? Wut... that's not even silly drama for WoW, that's ridiculous for someone who is supposed to be your friend.

    At the end of the day if she truly was your friend if you leave then she will still talk to you and you will still maintain your friendship. If she blocks you or refuses to speak to you over you wanting to actually sort out your raiding and have some fun playing a game you pay to play for entertainment, it might hurt but she wasn't worth your time.

    In short, I think you've already done enough and put in enough time to this person and this guild. Please do what's best for you! WoW is entertainment, not stress.

  3. #23
    Good old drama. This is why I'll probably never be in a big guild again. I'd be telling them all to shut up, get over it and just play.

    My advice is don't talk to the whining girl until she gets over it and comes to you, don't ask questions to anyone, and play like nothing changed.

    That, or find a new guild. If they're dramatic like this now, it'll probably happen again. I noticed almost everyone you referenced is female.

    ...I won't say it.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire SirMeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    I too need to echo the previous posters. You need the both you to communicate to solve the problem, and if that isn't happening, there is nothing you really can do. You cannot force her to communicate, even if that would be the key of solving it all. At some point it's better to cut friendship than to keep a poisonous friend around. You bothered to write about this here, so I guess it is a big deal, and cutting friends off is not easy, even when they're being a problem and refusing to do anything about it. So if you really cannot connect with her anymore, just... be ower it.

    Also can someone please hold my shoulder so I don't go slap those "lol wimmenz always d r a ma............" posters

  5. #25
    Accept that your current guild is terrible and look for a new one. Or stay an be contempt with being terrible. Its really a choice for you to make.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Toffie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Holy flying monkey on a horse... Thats a long post that confused me so I had to read it again....

    Just a short suggestion, don't make a big deal out of it.. If you really care for your friends then move server and don't look back.
    8700K (5GHz) - Z370 M5 - Mugen 5 - 16GB Tridentz 3200MHz - GTX 1070Ti Strix - NZXT S340E - Dell 24' 1440p (165Hz)

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Aqua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Under your bed
    Quote Originally Posted by Sykol View Post
    No offense to any female gamers, but reading through the entire post, all I kept seeing is "she did this" and "she said that" and it really doesn't surprise me. Guys can be just as bad, but pure unadulterated drama like you're describing is usually a staple of harboring more than one regular girl in a guild. It sounds like you're dealing with backstabbing and high school gossip that really, really isn't worth putting up with when you should be worrying about downing bosses. I'd just say fuck it and ditch the whole thing, find a new server for yourself, and start over somewhere without all that bullshit.
    Okay it doesn't surprise you. Your experiences in game with women are bad, but please don't generalize, cases are all individually different and I didn't really see the entire story written there, even if it was lengthy.

    Honestly to me it seems like overreactions and heightened emotions from the stress of failure and change. Sleep on it and approach the problem fresh, that's how I handle my guild business. Never rush headfirst into trap of drama right after an unsuccessful raidingame experience, you'll wake up and regret it. Be honest, be open about your feelings and your apologies and if the people involved can't find it in themselves to forgive and forget and let bygones be bygones, well fuck it. Life moves on and so do people. So get to it.

    Find a place and environment you enjoy the game in. I had to walk through my own shit storm to get to where I am but I like the people I raid with, problems and all, and even the people who have a higher failure percentage than my own still get a pass for being nice, helpful, and fun at the end of it all, and after some coaxing can get the job done. There are things you can tolerate if you enjoy yourself.
    I have eaten all the popcorn, I left none for anyone else.

  8. #28
    Everybody can tell the source of your issue from reading that post, its sexist so some people refuse to say it.

    You play with too many women, and clearly are too concerned with how they feel about you.

  9. #29
    So i read through the entire thing and really found it all quite confusing. I honestly think you should just give up on the people who aren't willing to listen to you. You mention you considered these people friends but their actions speak other wise really. I believe you've done everything you could and now its time to move on. You've already mentioned you plan to stick with the guild no matter what, so do that and forget about the other people.

    Drama is one of the defining ways to know if a friendship can make it or not, in this case it didn't 'make it'. One thing is very clear - you think more of them than they do of you. It's time for you to move on and forget about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post

    ...I won't say it.
    Haha i was thinking exactly that. Better to not comment on that. Even if you mean well.
    Last edited by Xucuroz; 2013-02-01 at 10:45 AM.
    We are warriors, born from the light
    An army for freedom, defenders of life
    Warriors, euphoria will rise
    Returning from darkness we bury all lies

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Cyonis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    1. We gamer girls are like a bunch of high school chicks. We talk around your back. We'll say in your face that we like you. And when you can't hear it, we'll chat about how terrible you actually are. Now you got a lesson in girls
    2. Move to a different realm. Either transfer or level a few new characters. That what I did when I for some reason pissed of half of a dead realm. I have no regrets.
    3. Friendship isn't onesided. Friends are the people that care for you too. Those people are rare, and chances are low to find them in WoW. There's always those opportunity "friends", which the people you talked about seem to be. The people that are your friends in good times, but not in bad times. Those are handy to have. But they are easy to find. You can also find them on a new realm.

    My advice to you: decide who your friends are, move to a new realm (together with your friends or not), find a guild with less girls in (we're really nasty when we're with a lot, really). Or perhaps take a break from WoW. There's tons of other stuff to do out there. Do you have any good real life friends? If not, get a (new) job, find a hobby, do something were you meet people! That's good for you

  11. #31

  12. #32
    Holy shit, it seems like every person you've met on that server is a girl :O

    Alleria, here i come!

    on a serious note though:

    I was bored. I came to MMO-Champ just to read a long topic like this, and I'm not really sure what i would answer since I've never only once been in extreme guild drama, which was even more fucked with this (gf of gm seducing people with phonesex anyone..?).

    Anyway, I'm still a bit ill so i'm not sure if I understood it all or maybe skipped something, but I honestly think that the best advice in most guild drama cases, including this one, is to move on.
    Personally i probably wouldn't, i really enjoy discussing stuff in wow, so i'd stay in the guild and try to raid with them as long as possible and get back to being friends, but if it's hopeless and retarded, then i'd end up buying a faction change to a higher populated server.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 11:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyonis View Post
    find a guild with less girls in
    I really must say i agree. Girls in wow usually just fuck up the guys, becuase they can't focus. Especially if they sound hot on the ventrilo/mumble/ts/skype...

    Especially in casual guilds where there's a lot of talking and not so much serious calling, everybody just tries to........... (no idea what to write there, i have no idea wtf their intentions are, at least they stop paying attention)

  13. #33
    I don't know what else had happened or how deep your relationship is with your "friends" (I put it like this cause they all don't seem very friendly at all, assuming and not willing to listen to a friend = not a friend in my book). But if I were you based on what you wrote, I'd sever all and every contact and join a new guild on a new server. I don't know how old you are or what your basics are for being friends with people, but seriously what you wrote is just a mess. I would never willing to be a part of such a guild or group of people.
    A few of my standards for a guild involve:
    -does the guild mesh with my personal objectives
    -does the guild mesh with my personality
    -does it have one or more drama makers
    From that point on I know if I can be involved with a guild like that. And well "friends" is relative isn't it. I've been "friends" with a couple that I even met in Real Life. But about a month or 2 after I met them (had played with them for 1 year), we had an argument that devastated that. Sure I was 32 at the time and they were 23/20. And from my pov it had everything to do with maturity and logical thinking aswell as with emotion. They just went with the emotional stuff. So we parted ways and never seen or heard from eachother again. And well when I "become" friends with anyone in WoW, I always keep a certain distance. They are at first atleast "just pixels". Sure you can be nice to eachother and have a laugh, but I myself keep a good distance. This distance ofcourse does grow smaller with each year. I've met about 6 people that I met in WoW that I do call friends (played with them for over 6 years). We might live in different countries but we do look eachother up once every year in Real Life and do stuff together. While you cannot call such people imo best friends or your closest friends - they are to me pretty good friends.
    To come back to your point... I wouldn't be arsed that much with the people you described as your friends and certainly not that girl. It is just not worth it. You could easily get a relationship that is similar to what you thought you had before in another guild. (judging from your post)

  14. #34
    I think I understand what you're trying to say or ask. Now I know that this is going to piss of a lot of girls out there but just know not all of you are like this...

    As you said she is awful. You stick up for her even though she is a bad player. She is friendly to you because she is using you. Once the chance for something better came along and she can use somebody else she did it. A lot of girls are like that in games. Once somebody comes along who can do stuff for you that you can't they will drop you.

    Most people deny that happens but if you sit down and think about it, it happens all the time. She used you knowing that you would stick up for her to keep her spot in to what sounds like a shit-tastic guild there. Once the other guild started to pull from you guys she knew it was time to jump ship cause that guild was dead. So maybe you'll have learned your lesson here...never stick up for shitty players male of female.

  15. #35
    I can't tell you what to do, and wouldn't want that responsibility on me; but I can tell you what I would do if I were you; which I have done in a somewhat similar situation, albeit less dramatic.

    I would try to make amends with her, by setting things straight. There is no point to me to make amends by admitting to a fictional mistake, since in that way you create a foundation of lies in rebuilding your friendship, and that is just awful. So I would write her a letter of sorts, whether through the game or email, etc. In it I would describe what happened, how I feel about it, where I think I was wrong and where I was not, concluding that I still want to be friends but not if it makes matters worse, and certainly not if things stay like that; as the situation right now is not much of a friendship; and I would send that letter to her. Personally, I would also move to the other realm, since it would be next to impossible to me to play on an almost dead realm, especially with so many bridges burnt. A nicely populated realm is quite refreshing for raiding from personal experience. And if I ended up reconciling once more with my friend, we could still play through Real ID or she could even move to the other realm at some point.

  16. #36
    well i stopped reading about halfway. right about at the mass Gquit.
    ye i seen stuff also.

    anyways, it comes down to this.
    WoW is just a game, like any other game you are playing it for the fun. entertainment.

    thats how it see WoW now. as a game. i play it to have fun.

    perhaps a fresh reroll on a new server , diff faction diff class.
    or do simple completely something els that interrest you.
    WoW is not worth bitching about. crying or anything.

    what really matters i real life. go out! trust you will like it.
    i have been on this road before. nothing suprises me anymore.

  17. #37
    I'm just going to summarize a few truths that I think most WoW raiders, no matter how hardcore or casual (and especially the more casual) should know:

    1) People quit guilds for reasons. Perhaps they had a bad night and "rage quit." Perhaps they are pissed off at your guild members. Perhaps they are pissed off that fun, casual guilds are 8/16 heroic, and your bad-atmosphere guild can't even clear 8/16 normal. Perhaps they hate the way the guild is being run.

    If you have the "rage quit" person over 1 bad incident, you can probably convince them to come back. If they are a former leader who left because they hated how the guild was run, you can probably convince them to come back if you've changed things.

    But if people leave because they hate the atmosphere or they hate the progression, there's no convincing them to "come back." You are trying to convince them to leave their current guild (that is, their new guild) and join your guild. Doing so when they haven't hinted to you they want to come back is considered poaching. That's why people hate you.

    2) People will join your guild if they like you and if they like your guild's mission. They won't join you (remember, you aren't convincing your "former guildmates" to come back. They left because they hated others, maybe you, and they hated that you couldn't even get 7/16 normal. You are convincing them to leave their guild and join yours) if you come off as needy and clingy, and if you haven't shown any real improvements.

    3) Welcome to MOP. Cataclysm content is irrelevant. Having to pat yourselves on the back because you can clear 35% nerfed Dragon Soul at level 90 is why people don't want to join your guild.

    Your post was long and I skimmed it, but I think these facts might be helpful.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyonis View Post
    1. We gamer girls are like a bunch of high school chicks. We talk around your back. We'll say in your face that we like you. And when you can't hear it, we'll chat about how terrible you actually are. Now you got a lesson in girls
    Males can be as bad . Always make sure that people act according to their word and vice versa. If not, keep a little distance. And the best way to prevent typical group-male/female behaviour is to mingle and talk.

  19. #39
    OMG that was a long read and lot of drama over women.

    OP for the love of God do a TLDR.

    1. Get away from drama
    2. Don't mix games and women drama

  20. #40
    One last word of advice:

    Dying servers are dying for a reason. There's a reason a lot of guilds server-transfer. That said, established guilds transfer because it's hard to find recruits. Your guild's foundations are shaky, you are missing a core group, and your guild was dying not because the realm was dying, but because it was dying "from the inside" of sorts.

    Such "desperation" transfers, just in my own, humble, and possibly incorrect opinion, don't end up helping the guild in the long term. The guild usually just goes the way it was going before the transfer - dying - because transferring did nothing to solve the guild's internal problems.

    P.S. To be honest, the women aren't causing the drama here. Just in my opinion, it's the OP that is the over-dramatic, over-reactive, over-emotional, drama-causing one here. The women in his picture (and the men) are mostly reacting reasonably compared to how a reasonable person would act against a (big) drama queen.

    P.P.S I've also told friends of mine to leave guilds. The thing is, doing so is an open sign of disrespect toward the guild and its leadership. When I tell friends to leave their guilds, it's because I'm openly saying their guild and their guild's leadership suck, and that's the statement I'm accepting responsibility for making.

    On that vein, if you tell your friends that they should "come with you" it's basically a slap in the face to their guild and GM, and you should be prepared for others to react accordingly.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-02-01 at 11:51 AM.

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