5.2 Agility Trinkets

[Zeherah]

That could very well be the reason!

I do actually calculate that stuff (proc on pull) on the sheet if anyone is wondering :P Obviously it isn't factored in the valuation as that focuses on asymptotic worth of the trinkets, not within a specific timeframe.

I think the valuation of the trinkets would be more useful if you could find a way to incorporate an expected uptime given a specified fight length and time since last proc (I would probably default those to 7.5 min and 5 min respectively). This would give a better picture of what we would see as uptime over a given fight and is what people most want to know. Not sure how difficult it would be to modify the sheet to support that.

[Libertarian]

So normal Juju > 510 bottle, would you say? Sounds nice to actually be able to use normal trinkets aswell.

I would say all 522 trinkets > 510 bottle with the recent buff.

[Deleted]

I would say all 522 trinkets > 510 bottle with the recent buff.

Doesn't the spreadsheet on the theorycraft thread say the complete opposite of that? I'm confused

[Deleted]

Doesn't the spreadsheet on the theorycraft thread say the complete opposite of that? I'm confused

Not after the changes to RPPM.

[Rashomon Gate]

Heroic talisman seems best rppm trinket cous of haste now going to be much more better secondary stat than mastery even so BM.
but actually normal version of talisman worse then bottle 510. Bottle ~ av 1800 agillty + mastery vs. 1400 talisman and random stacks of haste

[Noctifer616]

Doesn't the spreadsheet on the theorycraft thread say the complete opposite of that? I'm confused

At 22% uptime Renataki 522 gives about the same average agility, so it's all up to the secondary stats (if you will have an overkill of expertise and you simple can't reforge out of it Bottle might be better).

The uptime is dependent on your haste and luck. I would suggest you look at your logs to see what's your average uptime, or if you don't have access to logs do some dummy testing (keep in mind thought that you won't have BL, so in raids it should be slightly better).

For me the proc rate of Renataki seams to be between 20-25% most the time, so I use it instead of bottle.

[Herecius]

Take note, the Talisman of Bloodlust procs on every damaging Hunter ability except for Lynx Rush and Explosive Shot.

It procs on neither Explosive Shot applications, nor Explosive Shot ticks. It DOES proc on Black Arrow and Serpent Sting application, but does not proc on ticks of either of those.

I can only assume that this is a bug, as all other signature abilities and abilities in general correctly proc it, except for Explosive Shot. So yeah. Take heed. Full list, crossposted onto the official forums ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8198642248 ):

Auto Shot
Arcane Shot
Aimed Shot
Cobra Shot
Steady Shot
Black Arrow application (not ticks)
Serpent Sting application (not ticks)
Chimera Shot
Kill Command (surprising!)
Kill Shot
A Murder of Crows application (not ticks)
Multi-Shot
Glaive Toss's cast (not the actual hit, very strange behavior, and also kinda saddening consider Multi-Shot can proc it on multiple targets)
Barrage (Cannot proc on secondary targets, only the initial target, and only once)
Powershot
Blink Strike (wtf? Surprising)

List of abilities that cannot proc it:
Lynx Rush (not really a big deal)
Explosive Shot.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who feels Talisman is only worth-while as MM, pushing your AiS down to the hard-cast speeds? I may be totally wrong, but from what I understood, mastery > haste for SV and the haste from talisman wont affect RPPM values of other trinkets as well?

[Herecius]

Am I the only one who feels Talisman is only worth-while as MM, pushing your AiS down to the hard-cast speeds? I may be totally wrong, but from what I understood, mastery > haste for SV and the haste from talisman wont affect RPPM values of other trinkets as well?

Unless you are obscenely lucky, Talisman won't push your haste to hardcast speeds. This is because when hardcasting Aimed, you're suppressing your autoshot, so you need to get extremely lucky to roll stacks while hardcasting Aimed Shot.

So basically, Talisman can still be quite good for MM, but it won't really shine until you're below 80% anyways, and except for those rare instances where it's pushing 4/5 stacks, still not enough haste to hardcast AiS. That's how I've interpreted it, at any rate!

And also, the haste from Talisman should affect the RPPM values, since it's straight haste rating just like any other piece of gear while you have the buff, just like lust can, right?

[Tehstool]

Unless you are obscenely lucky, Talisman won't push your haste to hardcast speeds. This is because when hardcasting Aimed, you're suppressing your autoshot, so you need to get extremely lucky to roll stacks while hardcasting Aimed Shot.

So basically, Talisman can still be quite good for MM, but it won't really shine until you're below 80% anyways, and except for those rare instances where it's pushing 4/5 stacks, still not enough haste to hardcast AiS. That's how I've interpreted it, at any rate!

And also, the haste from Talisman should affect the RPPM values, since it's straight haste rating just like any other piece of gear while you have the buff, just like lust can, right?

Yeah, its haste should affect any RPPM abilities that we have. The talisman is prob bis for mm cause of the haste, not sure since I don't intend on playing it this tier.

[Saoron]

dunnu if it's been said before but anyone have a list of our trinkets from bis to complete shit in that order ? including the heroic and thunderforged versions.. i was on break for a bit

[Woobels]

AMoC and DB update with stats dynamically correct? Figured this was the best place to ask with trinkets in mind.

[Herecius]

AMoC and DB update with stats dynamically correct? Figured this was the best place to ask with trinkets in mind.

They do, yes. So not much point waiting for MoC to try and game it with the max Agi of the Soul Charm or something.

[Rashomon Gate]

Yeah, its haste should affect any RPPM abilities that we have. The talisman is prob bis for mm cause of the haste, not sure since I don't intend on playing it this tier.

Talisman BIS on all spec, cous now haste becoming much more better than mastery in t15

[Tehstool]

Talisman BIS on all spec, cous now haste becoming much more better than mastery in t15

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

It may very well be bis since renataki's isn't as reliable as bad juju according to my findings. Then the haste will boost bad juju's agility to compensate for the slight loss. Seems like it could work. Also the talisman would be pretty good in aoe situations.

So the competition for BiS (afaik) atm is : bad juju + renataki's soul charm + talisman of bloodlust (which is almost all of the trinkets XD)

[Herecius]

Talisman BIS on all spec, cous now haste becoming much more better than mastery in t15

Unless they fix it not proccing on Explosive Shot, it most certainly will not be BiS for Survival.

[Rashomon Gate]

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

It may very well be bis since renataki's isn't as reliable as bad juju according to my findings. Then the haste will boost bad juju's agility to compensate for the slight loss. Seems like it could work. Also the talisman would be pretty good in aoe situations.

So the competition for BiS (afaik) atm is : bad juju + renataki's soul charm + talisman of bloodlust (which is almost all of the trinkets XD)

so make some list with most usefull trinkets. some Rank of +dps from trinks for every spec

[Herecius]

so make some list with most usefull trinkets. some Rank of +dps from trinks for every spec

You would be better off simming it yourself for your own current gear level as nobody is going to be the same for these RPPM trinkets.

[Conjor]

When looking at Talisman of Bloodlust, keep in mind that my math / spreadsheet doesn't take into account stacking effects (... yet). Nor the increased proc rates due to the haste (which I'm 99% sure you would need to use Cox processes to model correctly). I have a feeling it will be a semi-worthwhile trinket for Hunters. Probably not the best however.

[Rashomon Gate]

You would be better off simming it yourself for your own current gear level as nobody is going to be the same for these RPPM trinkets.

i just wana know on which trink i can switch my bottle 510 without loss of dps
some guy wrote gear with which we can go on heroic modes, and there is still botlle 510, so from this i understood is no 522 better than bottle, right?