Wish Blizz would scrap level 90 mage talents :\

[Deleted]

Casual mage, so just wondering, but could Rune of Power be salvaged if it provided a 15 sec buff while standing in the rune that provided the DPS increase, so that if you move you have 15 seconds (or whatever is suitable) of grace, yet not the mana return to prevent the rune from becoming trivial? Standing in the rune would, of course, auto-refresh the buff, so that the 15 seconds start from exiting the Rune.

[Elegiac]

Just wondering, but could Rune of Power be salvaged if it provided a 15 sec buff while standing in the rune that provided the DPS increase, so that if you move you have 15 seconds (or whatever is suitable) of grace, yet not the mana return to prevent the rune from becoming trivial? Standing in the rune would, of course, auto-refresh the buff, so that the 15 seconds start from exiting the Rune.

Because the man return is already trivial for Fire and Frost.

[Deleted]

Because the man return is already trivial for Fire and Frost.

Fair enough then. *Scoots away*

[Verain]

The rogue 90 talents aren't really a part of this, but they are bad for a different reason. None of the rogue talents change how a rogue deals damage. Anticipation and Marked for Death is the first one like this- if rogues got the same dev time as druids, they would have had two cooldowns and a passive to choose from.

But if their level 90 talents were like mages, it would be three kinds of slice and dice. One falls off if you are out of melee with the target, one falls off if you change targets, and one only works if you are tanking a warrior in pvp.

[Brightamethyst]

I enjoyed my alt mage until 89. I hate those talents, they feel more like a restriction than an addition to your bag of skills.

This right here is the main issue. They don't feel like buffs.

Generally speaking people don't like having to manage short term buffs. It's a pain, and makes you feel like you're being punished when you're missing it rather than being a bonus when you have it. (flash back to late wrath/early cata and people were hating on Inquisition for the same reason.) I'd much rather have either a stronger CD or a weaker passive than this annoying middle ground we have now.

It doesn't matter if the talents work from a mechanical standpoint if people don't like the feel of them. It's kind of like having a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon but is bumpy and has uncomfortable seats. On an intellectual level you know that it's a good car, but that doesn't mean you like driving it.

[Skidd]

STOP STANDING IN MY RUNE

I KNOW! What is it with people and standing in my rune? Its my rune and is there for me to match your shitty DPS. Get off.

I think I'm going to make a yell macro that screams GET OF MY RUNE! LOL And I swear if my UI didnt track it I would be lost because half the time I don't see it fading and its even worse when other people are standing on it.

[Swizzle]

Imnick vs. every other mage ever?

I like them. They could use some work, but then again, what doesn't in a game that's in perpetual beta?

[Milamber]

Kil'jaeden's Cunning is a nice level 90 talent! Why doesn't someone make a poll like/dislike level 90 talents?

[Imnick]

Kil'jaeden's Cunning is a nice level 90 talent! Why doesn't someone make a poll like/dislike level 90 talents?

Because it wouldn't achieve anything or give you any information you didn't already know.
Blizzard don't take polls as evidence to make changes.

[Swizzle]

Because it wouldn't achieve anything or give you any information you didn't already know.
Blizzard don't take polls as evidence to make changes.

Well...not ones with a max pool of roughly 100 votes.

[Deleted]

In fact, I have found 3 mounts ago avery interresting post, with very little troll/whine about Glyph in off-mage-forum. Its really sort between pvp, pve, mandatory, or not. Very constructive, etc.

It result in nothing since they only change Fire Blast glyph into Inferno Blast glyph.
So what is my conclusion :
1- developer isn't focused on mage (at that time they were on warlock).
2- they won't make major change at the start of a new pvp season/raid.

I'm more inclined that if we see serious change before 6.x, it will be for 5.3/5.4. Not now, especially since they announce it for in 2/3 weeks.
(mouhahaha, I'm pretty good in divination with this one ....)


PS for Zomg: you largely sur-estimate the audience that Lhivera have over GC. really.
PS : for those who have not noticed, I never respond about PvP because it's more troll/whine than anything and also because I'm very very very casual (maybe less than casual).

[Cerebrate]

I hate them. Why make talents that ruin the play. When brainstorming ideas for talents who could possibly think these were a good idea. It confuses me that they would pick these.

[Deleted]

''My talents are the worst in the game!'' - said every class.

Respect to the people here who just got over it. It's not like mages are bottom of the meters or something. If you'd rather have an uninteresting fire and forget CD like my paladin, I can't say I recommend it.

[Sealed]

I'm loving Rune of Power so far.

I have no doubt it could use some tweaking, but the concept is fine and the implementation doesn't feel as far off as you'd be led to believe by the very loud detractors.

[Elegiac]

Kil'jaeden's Cunning is a nice level 90 talent! Why doesn't someone make a poll like/dislike level 90 talents?

This is a thread about mage talents.

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 08:48 AM ----------

''My talents are the worst in the game!'' - said every class.

Respect to the people here who just got over it. It's not like mages are bottom of the meters or something. If you'd rather have an uninteresting fire and forget CD like my paladin, I can't say I recommend it.

When your 'fire and forget' CD comes at the cost of a DPS/HPSless GCD, mobility, or is able to be screwed over entirely by RNG, come back and talk.

I would gladly trade DPS for a revamp in the style of warlocks. DPS is just a mask for more deep-seated issues.

Also, I suspect you don't actually play a mage.

[Verain]

''My talents are the worst in the game!'' - said every class.

I don't hear that from locks, warriors, druids, monks, paladins, for sure. I'll also add that the mage talents aren't bad- mages actually have fun and interesting talents- the problem is that the level 90 tier is "choose a bad mechanic and marry it". But the other mage talents generally interestingn.

Respect to the people here who just got over it. It's not like mages are bottom of the meters or something. If you'd rather have an uninteresting fire and forget CD like my paladin, I can't say I recommend it.

The problem isn't that these are maintenance buffs, but that they force the mage to curve their play depending on the fight, and have pretty hefty differences in output depending. I think the real mistake was tying them to mana management.

I'm loving Rune of Power so far.

I have no doubt it could use some tweaking, but the concept is fine and the implementation doesn't feel as far off as you'd be led to believe by the very loud detractors.

I disagree with you. But I also want to know- why? I mean, rune of power is cool conceptually. But here's what I see as a raid leader:

On heroic Blade Lord, the mage puts down runes. He's arcane for this fight, because the spec is overtuned and we want as much damage as possible- but even if it wasn't, he still might prefer arcane or whatever. He starts spamming his rotation, and the passive rune regen keeps his mana high (maximizing his mastery return). Eventually, Blade Lord does a mechanic- he makes us all run in so he can punt us down the hallway, because nothing says mastery of blades like getting bounced around like a romp-a-room. Our mage does not much damage running in, and he's forced to drop stacks. We all get punted, and then he runs back to his rune- but because his rune to us looks like a tiny dim whatever, a healer or other ranged has often chosen that spot. Since two ranged can't stand close, he has to recast the rune somewhere else. OR the healer or ranged saw the rune, chose not to cost the raid damage, and chose another spot- in which case, they just had a fight mechanic added to an already ranged-unfriendly fight. The damage of arcane and the generally too-good synergy of the rune make this choice superior for him, but I don't see other casters having this level of hoop-jumping. And Blizzard WILL fix the outstanding arcane damage.

So, do you like rune of power because it's awesome, or because it makes for really strong synergy and might be too good?


Note that this fight has heavy predictable damage, and the ability to take damage whenever you choose. If Incanter's Ward was going to be good, it would be good here. But both this mechanic and the "sucky-in" mechanic normally force a stack drop, and in both cases do not allow for the bonus damage to be dealt while the mage is at a high stack- he wastes almost all the 30% boost ramping up, and of course pays for it the rest of the time with both reduced damage and no regen. Or he could go Invocation, as the fight does allow several times for full Evo (he argued with this, but I think this was his lack of experience with the timers and not a real concern), but ultimately Invocation does not provide the same damage as Rune of Power.


I think Blizzard bit off more than they could chew with these talents. If nothing else, the magnitude of the talents could be reduced- players might be willing to put up with a less dorky mechanic if the damage delta was smaller.

[Deleted]

I have yet to find a fight where I drop stacks. Granted i didnt do heroics, but its possible to NEVER loose stacks.

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 09:41 PM ----------

I have yet to find a fight where I drop stacks. Granted i didnt do heroics, but its possible to NEVER loose stacks.

Blade Lord > pack up > AE when he bumps you, cast RoP where you land, you should not have to move, your mates should. They can still heal/dps while moving, you can't.

[Verain]

I have yet to find a fight where I drop stacks. Granted i didnt do heroics, but its possible to NEVER loose stacks.

No, it really isn't. I'm only familiar with blade lord because this junk all caused discussion in vent.

Blade Lord > pack up > AE when he bumps you

AE only has a chance right? You can lose it still? He does that, but you DO have to move into positions.

cast RoP where you land, you should not have to move, your mates should. They can still heal/dps while moving, you can't.

Our strategy is that the ranged stay at the edges of the hallway. This keeps the hallway clear of tornados. Plus, the boss is tanked at specific points, so it's possible the mage will have to move anyway. We don't want the mage putting his RoP down where he lands, because he's way hella too far down the hallway- the tornadoes should be going to the bosses right and left instead of down further (that's for LATER tornadoes). Plus often we'll be punted straight- and a tornado directly down our kick-path will get us all gibbed on the next knockback, making it really inappropriate.

Now, you can tell us to "change our strategy" (lol, right), or that "everyone else should move away from the mage", which might include healers who actually have a real job to do right then (heal the wind step and the tank or we wipe). The point is that you are actively creating mechanics for the rest of the group, including the healers. Now, tell me: why not bring someone who doesn't dictate raid positioning in that spot? Why is there ANY spec/talent that does this garbage? If that mage was a second lock, he wouldn't cause those issues, right?

Also, the other mechanics blade lord has- he drags everyone in and then you have to run away or be drawn in and killed- do, to MY knowledge, force a stack drop, as do the transitions across the room.


If the mage is telling the raid how to run because he's just such a pretty princess spec and everyone needs to not put a pea under his mattress Blizzard screwed the hell up.

[Deleted]

Nop, AE doesnt have "a chance" it refreshes your stacks 100% of the time.

So you just have to AE just as he appears, or even when he bump you, and there, stacks refreshed for the entire fight .

I'm not lying when I saying that I don't drop stacks ever.

Lets prove this :
MV :
the dogs : You'll never drop stacks
2nd boss : Won't happen
3rd boss : Won't happen
Spirits Kings : Won't happen
Elegon : AE the adds when regrouping, or keep a AM proc to be able to refresh it (with AM, your stacks refresh when you STOP casting AM, so cast AM then move immediatly > Stacks refreshed)
Final Boss : Won't happen too

HoF :
1rst boss : disc phase > just refresh NT use scorch, cast AE to keep stacks up.
Blade lord : AE when bumped. Not possible when switching sides. For heroics, you can refresh your stacks using AE glyph while dpsing him with scorch (while getting away), AE glyph increases the radius of your AE, making refreshing stacks with AE possible when maybe unglyphed you could not.) So no, it DOESNT, force stack loss.
Garalon : Won't happen
4th boss : Won't happen too
Amber shaper : Won't happen too
Empress : Won't happen too

Terrace :
First boss : Won't happen too
Tsu'long : AE one of the adds when they pop / Keep an AM proc (pretty hard but i'm getting it consistently with practice)
Leishi : Won't happen
Sha : AE the add when you land on the platform / AM proc.

I'm sure you could get lots of mage here telling you the same thing.

We use the same strat as you on Blade lord, if I have bad luck and get bumped in front of him (and not on the sides), most of the time you can just move to a side while refreshing NT, cast RoP, and there you go .
And yes, when someone lands just next to me, I ask them to kindly move away because I already casted RoP and it a lot more painful for me on my dps than on theirs.
I did that a few time, and now they just move when they land next to me, it doesnt bother them at all. They can always cast an instant while moving a few yards away.

Hope I helped

[Imnick]

Are you a mage or a raid leader, Verain?
Because arguing with Mages about how the Mage class works when you don't play one seems rather... unwise?

I can corroborate the claim that it is easily possible not to drop your stacks on Bladelord because I have done it and do it every week.
It's really also not that hard to stay off the healers, you don't need to move much between special abilities unless there are several unfortunate twisters and even then you'd have to move regardless.

Nobody should be stacked on Wind Lord anyway, everyone should already not be standing on your Mage.
All he has to do to reposition is point in a direction nobody is standing and Blink.