Rand Paul gives the Tea Party response to the President's State of the Union

[Garnier Fructis]

basic evolution that is accepted by nearly every scientist. unless you're one of those few who dont believe in it

Care to elaborate on how our dependence on technology is artificially selecting for weaker genes?

[Wells]

We lost the ability once it was made into an external object, rather than internalized. When you have tools doing things for you, you stop needing the ability to do what those tools are doing now.

Your understanding of what evolution actually is leaves something to be desired.

[Kraenen]

Your understanding of what evolution actually is leaves something to be desired.

Enlighten me, unless that was just an insult mean to misdirect the conversation.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 02:05 AM ----------

Care to elaborate on how our dependence on technology is artificially selecting for weaker genes?

when did i say artificially? the dependence on technology means that weaker genes will survive, and won't adapt for the things being done by the tech.

[Wells]

The ability to make and use tools is evolution. Our reliance on them is no different than a dog's reliance on its teeth. We shed some physical traits when they're not needed or adapt ones we have, but that doesn't change anything.

You're judging what are "weaker" genes based entirely on superficial criteria. The only thing that determines what are weaker genes and what are strong genes are what genes lead to beings that reproduce.

[Kraenen]

The ability to make and use tools is evolution. Our reliance on them is no different than a dog's reliance on its teeth. We shed some physical traits when they're not needed or adapt ones we have, but that doesn't change anything.

You're judging what are "weaker" genes based entirely on superficial criteria. The only thing that determines what are weaker genes and what are strong genes are what genes lead to beings that reproduce.

The tools aren't a part of us as the teeth are to a dog, though. They are created externally.

Yes, my criteria goes beyond just reproducing. If you want to talk about anything important you should too.

[Wells]

The tools aren't a part of us as the teeth are to a dog, though. They are created externally.

They're created externally as the result of internal evolutionary processes in our brains and hands. You wouldn't say a bird's ability to build a nest defies evolution.

If you're talking about evolution "reproducing" is the only thing that matters. You seem to be treating evolution likes its an rpg or something.

[Kraenen]

They're created externally as the result of internal evolutionary processes in our brains and hands. You wouldn't say a bird's ability to build a nest defies evolution.

If you're talking about evolution "reproducing" is the only thing that matters. You seem to be treating evolution likes its an rpg or something.

like it's an rpg?

[Garnier Fructis]

when did i say artificially? the dependence on technology means that weaker genes will survive, and won't adapt for the things being done by the tech.

We use medical technology to save people who would otherwise have died and been unable to reproduce (natural selection). In that sense, medical technology artificially prevents that elimination. Now what I'm asking is for you to justify how this is making "the human genome weaker" (did you mean gene pool?) as you put it.

Edit: Also, how does the survival of "weaker" genes limit the surviving power of "stronger" genes?

[Wells]

Our species using one evolutionary trait (technology) to survive things like illness or adversity is no different than when any other species does it with a trait it processes as far as evolution is concerned.

We aren't hampering evolution when we treat genetic disease, we're making the most of what evolution has dealt us for the survival of our species.

[hakujinbakasama]

I must be an idiot because I'm not seeing where all this "bashing" is founded.

[fengosa]

That's not playing politics. I can't recall the last time I heard of politicians cooperating unless it was absolutely necessary.

Its actually pretty common outside of the US in countries with multiple political parties.

[Kasierith]

when did i say artificially? the dependence on technology means that weaker genes will survive, and won't adapt for the things being done by the tech.

If they are capable of survival, than they are no longer "Weak genes." What is good or bad is ultimately dependent on your environment.

[Rukentuts]

What is good or bad is ultimately dependent on your environment.

I think that's what he was getting at. Humans are one of the only species that actually drastically alters its environment to suit itself. Paired with our urges to protect even the weakest (when many weak animals will leave the herd) it creates a fairly unique situation.

[Azrile]

It was an alright speech but as always others will see it differently.

I like a lot of what he says, but ironically he is standing behind the same Tea Party banner that Sarah Palin does when she does her ´awe shucks folks, we need to just round up all the gays and shoot them´..

I am a small gov´t person myself, and I liked what the Tea Party stood for back in 2007-2008ish... but let´s be real. Rand Paul, as much as he might not like it, will be saddled with the religious rights crusades as long as he is involved with the Tea Party. The Tea Party, the party of ´women can choose not to become pregnant during a rape´..

There needs to be another small gov´t party... it is no longer the Tea Party, and definitley not the Republicans. As an objective person, I actually think Obama is better for the economy than Bush was.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 03:04 AM ----------

So yes, you think there are businesses out there that, if they have taxes lowered, would just hire more people for shits and giggles, not because they need them because of an increased demand? Anyone actually thinking this happens just absolutely boggles my mind.

you are obviously pretty young. Definitely if you cut taxes on business they would have more capital to grow. Would it all go to new hires, no way. It could go to buy equipment, which then needs people to operate, some business could open more branch offices, which then need people to work in. If you give a business $1, and they think they can invest it to earn $1.01, they will do it. Every business right now has a growth plan, and each year decisions are made based on how much money they have on which options they take. Putting more money in their pockets allows them to go deeper on the dream list. I had a small business with 12 employees, it was always on my mind at which point I could hire the next employee because you knew that if you were a good owner, you could ´use´that person to make more money for yourself.

[Felya]

The tools aren't a part of us as the teeth are to a dog, though. They are created externally.

What other animal creates the sort of tools we do? They are created by us, because of the evolutionary trait that made us the top of the food chain. Our evolutionary trait to think in a way to create these tools, is why we walk dogs on leashes, despite their big teeth.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 03:20 AM ----------

you are obviously pretty young. Definitely if you cut taxes on business they would have more capital to grow. Would it all go to new hires, no way. It could go to buy equipment, which then needs people to operate, some business could open more branch offices, which then need people to work in. If you give a business $1, and they think they can invest it to earn $1.01, they will do it. Every business right now has a growth plan, and each year decisions are made based on how much money they have on which options they take. Putting more money in their pockets allows them to go deeper on the dream list. I had a small business with 12 employees, it was always on my mind at which point I could hire the next employee because you knew that if you were a good owner, you could ´use´that person to make more money for yourself.

That's only true if the growth is the result of the business demand, not decreasing taxes. To open up more stores or hire more employees, you need the growth to justify it. It is absolutely foolish to reinvest money as a result of a tax cut, into a business who's demand has not grown. If you are a good owner, you don't increase redundancy.

[Grizzly Willy]

Its actually pretty common outside of the US in countries with multiple political parties.

Bolded the important part. Politics in the U.S. seems to be shit compared to other countries.

[Azrile]

I think that's what he was getting at. Humans are one of the only species that actually drastically alters its environment to suit itself. Paired with our urges to protect even the weakest (when many weak animals will leave the herd) it creates a fairly unique situation.

I understand the point he is trying to make. Honestly it is one of the few scientific arguments that can be made for the existence of God (purely scientific). There is just such a huge leap in evolution from us to the next highest animal. Think about it, for the last hour, probably thousands if not millions of people have been playing WOW as a leisure activity with no care in the world for our safety (other than because of those OP warriors). In a pure evolutionary system, would people evolve to be so wasteful, to devote so much time to leisure activities? Shouldn´t there be some evolutionary focus that makes us workaholics and more competitive?

I keep thinking back to ´humans´in the movie Wall-E

[dantian]

Noone needs to be president unless the have the backing of the majority of the population. "younger conservatives" make up a very tiny minority.

Shh! Don't tell them! Let them think their guy is a winner so they nominate him!

[Zdrasti]

when did i say artificially? the dependence on technology means that weaker genes will survive, and won't adapt for the things being done by the tech.

Unless there is an environmental force acting to select certain types of genes, there is no notion of a "weaker" or "stronger" gene. It's just biodiversity. What is disadvantageous in one context can be advantageous in others.

Biodiversity of a species is a good thing.

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 10:35 PM ----------

I understand the point he is trying to make. Honestly it is one of the few scientific arguments that can be made for the existence of God (purely scientific).

Science cannot make an argument for or against the existence of God; it can only seek to understand His creation and has no place assessing supernatural beings. The existence of God is entirely a matter of faith.

[Cjeska]

Took only 8 pages for people to start dabbling into eugenics, yeah! Bring back the good old times!

When will people finally learn to use the internet to educate themselves instead of just using it to repeat nonsense that they were told by some other dumbass -.-

"Keynesianism got the US out of the recession" DAFUQ?! Government intervention and regulation both causes and prolongs recessions. I guess there are some "Chris Rockians" here, who believe that the President is your boss / dad and you better listen to him.