[Megathread] Destiny

[Jtbrig7390]

I don't understand why you think it is an "excuse."

Because they have been using it.......SINCE DESTINY 1.

[RobertoCarlos]

I don't understand why you think it is an "excuse." If players are consuming content too fast obviously it is a mistake or misjudgement on the developers part. I don't see why you would want to interpret it as the devs trying to put "blame" on the players.

What sounds better to shareholders,

Option A : "We didnt create enough content or meaningful game play to retain our customers past the initial sales launch and ultimately our micro transaction and DLC market suffered greatly from our lack of foresight and poor judgement"

Option B : "Players enjoyed our content so much they burned through it quicker than imagined and we are making up ground to cover the increased demand!"

Plus still waiting on that actual quote or a timestamp so I can look at it myself. My findings were completely different to what dope danny said.

[Dhrizzle]

Because they have been using it.......SINCE DESTINY 1.

Yes, but what makes you think it excuses them in any way? Do you think that shareholders are going to look at the phrase and say "well that's perfectly okay, we'll blame the customers for any shortfalls in revenue and not expect a better performance in the future?"

[Jtbrig7390]

Yes, but what makes you think it excuses them in any way? Do you think that shareholders are going to look at the phrase and say "well that's perfectly okay, we'll blame the customers for any shortfalls in revenue and not expect a better performance in the future?"

Saying "Player's are burning though content too fast and that's why they are leaving" sounds a hell of a sight better than "People are leaving because we can't develop content and each time we release a patch we break 100 things".

To shareholder's.

[Dhrizzle]

Saying "Player's are burning though content too fast and that's why they are leaving" sounds a hell of a sight better than "People are leaving because we can't develop content and each time we release a patch we break 100 things".

To shareholder's.

"And on top of that we saw a very positive sentiment and new franchise high levels of engagement for the first couple of months post launch. Now after that meaning after players report a significant amount of hours already into the game, we have definitely seen some real sentiment issues surface in a couple of areas, and we got plans to address those. For example, one of the things we wanted to do with Destiny 2 was to make the game a little bit less of a grind based on feedback we heard and we also wanted to provide players with more direct pass to getting the game’s best rewards. And that actually allowed our core players to consume the content faster than we anticipated. And that has led to an increase in players calling for more challenges and better rewards in the ongoing game.

Now, this is a live game, and responding to player feedback is a part of the process in this game and any live game. And we feel we have the right plans in place to address the concern. Last week, Bungie posted a detailed roadmap of the changes that we have coming over the next several months. And thus far, those plans have been very well received as have the changes that we’ve already put into the game itself already and the sentiment is already starting to shift. And also, remember that we have a great expansion coming in May and a major expansion coming at the end of the year. And those events have always been opportunities for us to reengage our community and win back people who have churned out.

This is an incredibly passionate group of players and that passion is a good thing, even when the sentiment is critical because it shows how deeply people care about the game. And we think that’s one of the thing that makes us a great franchise. And we are fully committed to listening to and communicating with our community more frequently and more transparently than ever and making the right changes to improve the experience. And we think we have the right path forward."

In what way does that sound like he is blaming the players?

[Zephyr Storm]

Seriously though, what is the effect of this "blame" you're experiencing? It should be obvious to anyone that if players have gone through content too fast the devs should either have slowed that rate or produced more content. Why do you feel the responsibility should lie with you so you can take the "blame" rather than accepting it was a misjudgement or failure on the devs side?

If you can’t see how the devs/publishers are at the very least, inadvertently blaming the players for burning through the content too fast with how they word things, then I don’t really know what else to say to you (devs/pubs have been tossing this exact same excuse around for years now on why they can’t develop a reasonable amount of content for their player bases). You’ve either got a very serious comprehension problem or are willingly ignoring what is right in front of your face. Neither of which is helping your case any.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand why you think it is an "excuse." If players are consuming content too fast obviously it is a mistake or misjudgement on the developers part. I don't see why you would want to interpret it as the devs trying to put "blame" on the players.

You’ve been living under a rock for the past ten years or so haven’t you? That’s literally the only thing I can think of as to why you seem so confused on the subject.

- - - Updated - - -

"And on top of that we saw a very positive sentiment and new franchise high levels of engagement for the first couple of months post launch. Now after that meaning after players report a significant amount of hours already into the game, we have definitely seen some real sentiment issues surface in a couple of areas, and we got plans to address those. For example, one of the things we wanted to do with Destiny 2 was to make the game a little bit less of a grind based on feedback we heard and we also wanted to provide players with more direct pass to getting the game’s best rewards. And that actually allowed our core players to consume the content faster than we anticipated. And that has led to an increase in players calling for more challenges and better rewards in the ongoing game.

Now, this is a live game, and responding to player feedback is a part of the process in this game and any live game. And we feel we have the right plans in place to address the concern. Last week, Bungie posted a detailed roadmap of the changes that we have coming over the next several months. And thus far, those plans have been very well received as have the changes that we’ve already put into the game itself already and the sentiment is already starting to shift. And also, remember that we have a great expansion coming in May and a major expansion coming at the end of the year. And those events have always been opportunities for us to reengage our community and win back people who have churned out.

This is an incredibly passionate group of players and that passion is a good thing, even when the sentiment is critical because it shows how deeply people care about the game. And we think that’s one of the thing that makes us a great franchise. And we are fully committed to listening to and communicating with our community more frequently and more transparently than ever and making the right changes to improve the experience. And we think we have the right path forward."

In what way does that sound like he is blaming the players?

Translation: “We screwed the pooch with D2 and tried to monetize way too much and basically shit all over everything we had established with D1. As a result, players have left in droves and have continued to express their anger and frustration about our complete lack of competence in game development and our continued ineptitude with everything that comes out of our mouths. And because of all of this, our dedicated fan base that stuck around in D1 through the thick and thin are finally fed up with our bullshit and are all jumping ship, even the streamers and content creators whose livelihood use to depend on our game. We fucked up big time, even though we will never, ever, ever admit it to the general public even though we should have already.”

Of course, what they said sounds a lot better on paper and to shareholders’ ears, but the translation is definitely the more accurate statement.

- - - Updated - - -

So yes check your calendar thats a year and 3 paid content updates to try and 'fix' a game that threw all of D1's lessons learned out the window. Jesus. Fuck.

This is the biggest problem of all with D2. They took everything that people loved about D1 at the end of Year 3 and said “fuck it” and gave us a completely new game that lacked almost all of the things we had come to love about D1. Then they have the nerve to charge us for two DLCs and an expansion this Fall to get us back to where we already were with D1. They want us to pay, at minimum, $130-$150 and make us wait a year or more after launch to give us back the game we had for three years already. And they will expect praise every single fucking step of the way when they give us back something that they idiotically took away from us in the first place.

This is a whole new level of dumbassery, incompetence, and brazen arrogance on Bungie’s part. And they still don’t have the fucking decency to, at the very least, say they fucked up and apologize. Nope, can’t have that can we? Better to act like nothing is wrong and keep fucking the player base over and over.

[Dhrizzle]

If you can’t see how the devs/publishers are at the very least, inadvertently blaming the players for burning through the content too fast with how they word things, then I don’t really know what else to say to you (devs/pubs have been tossing this exact same excuse around for years now on why they can’t develop a reasonable amount of content for their player bases). You’ve either got a very serious comprehension problem or are willingly ignoring what is right in front of your face. Neither of which is helping your case any.

You’ve been living under a rock for the past ten years or so haven’t you? That’s literally the only thing I can think of as to why you seem so confused on the subject.

I seriously can't comprehend how you can read a statement that basically says "here's what we did wrong, here's what we're doing about it" and decide the company is blaming the customers. It doesn't even make any sense, why would a shareholder agree that it's the customer's fault for consuming the content rather than the developer's for not keeping them engaged, especially when the statement explicitly states how it is the developer's responsibility? What kind of victim complex do you have to be sporting to decide you're being blamed for it?

Translation: “We screwed the pooch with D2 and tried to monetize way too much and basically shit all over everything we had established with D1. As a result, players have left in droves and have continued to express their anger and frustration about our complete lack of competence in game development and our continued ineptitude with everything that comes out of our mouths. And because of all of this, our dedicated fan base that stuck around in D1 through the thick and thin are finally fed up with our bullshit and are all jumping ship, even the streamers and content creators whose livelihood use to depend on our game. We fucked up big time, even though we will never, ever, ever admit it to the general public even though we should have already.”

Of course, what they said sounds a lot better on paper and to shareholders’ ears, but the translation is definitely the more accurate statement.

Obviously the shareholders don't speak edgy-teenager and realise how ridiculous excessive hyperbole is.

[Zephyr Storm]

I seriously can't comprehend how you can read a statement that basically says "here's what we did wrong, here's what we're doing about it" and decide the company is blaming the customers. It doesn't even make any sense, why would a shareholder agree that it's the customer's fault for consuming the content rather than the developer's for not keeping them engaged, especially when the statement explicitly states how it is the developer's responsibility? What kind of victim complex do you have to be sporting to decide you're being blamed for it?



Obviously the shareholders don't speak edgy-teenager and realise how ridiculous excessive hyperbole is.

I take it you are either some invested party in the video games industry or just don’t know how to read/interpret things judging by what you’ve been saying. Either way, it’s clear there is no intelligible discussion to be had with you. If you love to lap up everything a business says to you whose only goal is to take as much of your money as possible, then that is on you. Enjoy.

[Dhrizzle]

I take it you are either some invested party in the video games industry or just don’t know how to read/interpret things judging by what you’ve been saying. Either way, it’s clear there is no intelligible discussion to be had with you. If you love to lap up everything a business says to you whose only goal is to take as much of your money as possible, then that is on you. Enjoy.

Forgetting for a moment you're completely misinterpreting what the statement says, let's imagine you're right, and Bungee have said to their shareholders "there were no mistakes on our part, the content was perfectly fine but the players did it wrong so it's all their fault." How exactly does that make them money as opposed to identifying the flaws and trying to rectify them?

[Bugg]

Destiny 1 was on consoles. The console gaming community is much more lenient than the PC one. The game still had many... 'minuses' that the community swallowed because of the great gun-play, VoG and other great raids, and so on.
The forums (official and reddit) were full of suggestions, ideas and solutions.

Everyone (insert Gary Oldman - "Leon the Professional" gif) was expecting all the lessons to be fucking LEARNED for Destiny 2.
They were not.

Then we got Insulted bu Eververse. And the bugs and lies.

Personally, I changed my point of view a few times about this game. Now I just think like this:
They did not learn from D1; ignorance is not an excuse. They have money, they have the grounds for a great game. The choices that created D2 were made by people in charge, that IMO, fucked up.

Now, for me, Destiny 2 is game/software product that could have been Much much more, but it's not. It's something I payed for, I tasted it and I thew it away. I moved on, I learned my lesson, and I want to think that I'm better at learning lessons that Bungie is.

[Coldkil]

Question: has anyone a link from an official/trusted source about the investor call that recaps what has been said? Until i get something like that i won't agree with anyone basically (though i don't expect a 180 degrees turn).

[nekobaka]

I have seen recaps while if you want to be sure of no bias then here is the source http://investor.activision.com/events.cfm

Personal opinion:

Blizzard has said much the same in regards towards player engagement and player high consumption so meh given how much of the Destiny community praises Blizzard and wants Bungie to follow their ways. Bungie also like Blizzard admitted a need and plans in place to resolve retention. If they had dug their head in the sand then retention would of not be mentioned at all. Blizzard outright praised their store for off setting sub losses and is a factor for no longer reporting subscription numbers.

[Coldkil]

Well, if a system works for them i'm happy. Honestly the store isn't obnoxious nor mandatory. Pricey maybe but it's "you want, you buy" and not some lootbox shit.

Regarding Destiny 2, if it's true that they said "it's player's fault for running too fast", well Bungo, you probably have literaly no idea about what players want and should get back to short and consumable single player games that had some sense.

If you pretend to make a full online MMO-esque looter shooter and all that's to do is random crappy PvP matches, then you shouldn't even have started doing it.

Gunplay is good, content is abysmal. I mean, people stopped caring about doing the same daily/weekly activities over long periods a loooong time ago. You need to keep people attracted and stop pretending that the shaders hunt is something worth the players time.

Players burned through your content because it was too short.

[Witchblade77]

The more alarming thing is only 77,812 guardians participated in the event across all three platforms...now the big question is that unique players or unique characters....

Regardless of which one it is...that is alarming considering the game sold a few million units across the three platforms as well....

its pvp though? is it possible that some players didn't participate cause its pvp? i mean... I'm pretty much ignoring those cause I'm really not into pvp, especially shooter pvp.

[Aliven]

But Destiny 1 became good once they improved it from its initial state. As a sequel, you would expect them to stick to the winning formula.

But i was talking about how D1 was at launch.

[Coldkil]

its pvp though? is it possible that some players didn't participate cause its pvp? i mean... I'm pretty much ignoring those cause I'm really not into pvp, especially shooter pvp.

Well, given the game type pvp is one of the most active aspects (or it should be). Nightfall/raid are a fast weekly activity so you cannot exactly monitor them and don't offer much player retention.

Though i'm in your same boat, couldn't care less about pvp and i just do quick matches for the weekly milestone basically ignoring the outcome completely.

[Aliven]

Well, given the game type pvp is one of the most active aspects (or it should be). Nightfall/raid are a fast weekly activity so you cannot exactly monitor them and don't offer much player retention.

Though i'm in your same boat, couldn't care less about pvp and i just do quick matches for the weekly milestone basically ignoring the outcome completely.

Why do you believe PVP should be most active aspect?

[Coldkil]

Why do you believe PVP should be most active aspect?

I don't believe it should at all. But unfortunately since the game is a shooter at its core most people just play pvp for multiple reasons so it's a good way to measure population activity in game.

Though i wonder how many people did Heroic Strikes, Nightfall and Raid. I expect a fraction of an already small population.

[Zephyr Storm]

its pvp though? is it possible that some players didn't participate cause its pvp? i mean... I'm pretty much ignoring those cause I'm really not into pvp, especially shooter pvp.

As has always been the case with Destiny, the weekly Trials event that takes place every weekend is a good indicator of player rentention. If the numbers for Trials is extremely low (ie the lowest it’s ever been in Destiny’s history), then that means large numbers of people have abandoned the game. It doesn’t matter what you personally think of PvP, this number has always been an indicator of the game’s health. Ignore it all you want, but this does not bode well for Destiny in general, PvP or not.

[Aliven]

I don't believe it should at all. But unfortunately since the game is a shooter at its core most people just play pvp for multiple reasons so it's a good way to measure population activity in game.

Though i wonder how many people did Heroic Strikes, Nightfall and Raid. I expect a fraction of an already small population.

I played pvp as much as any other activity - to get weekly milestone.