[Megathread] Destiny

[Coldkil]

Well, i'm suprised. It may come from all the wrongest reasons, but hey who cares honestly. Only thing i'm looking for is improvements for the game - and a clan that is still active enough to do the raid. I so want to try it, but i'm unable to even find a group for Nightfall because their system sucks bad.

[Bugg]

Bad choices regarding grouping: no lfg for NF/raid (they should have learned from D1, but they did not) and the Guided games that are useless.
It's 2018.

[Coldkil]

Bad choices regarding grouping: no lfg for NF/raid (they should have learned from D1, but they did not) and the Guided games that are useless.
It's 2018.

One can only hope they understand what's really needed in game, but yeah. I mean, they should have just copied WoW LFG tool and everything would have been fine.

[RuneDK]

One can only hope they understand what's really needed in game, but yeah. I mean, they should have just copied WoW LFG tool and everything would have been fine.

Exactly what they should have done. I get them not wanting matchmaking for the raid...but there should be a lfg tool ingame....I shouldn’t have to alt tab and go to a third party website just to play the game.

[Coldkil]

Exactly what they should have done. I get them not wanting matchmaking for the raid...but there should be a lfg tool ingame....I shouldn’t have to alt tab and go to a third party website just to play the game.

Well, the actual experience/feedback i have from it is that it's just a pain to use because you can apply for multiple groups but you need to have them as friends so they can invite you and this takes an awful lot of time and actually most of the times people just went rogue and i never received any answer (despite being accepted in the group nearly immediately).

There's so much delay and basically you're there just wondering if people is afk, ignoring you or you did something wrong in the whole procedure, so you alt-tab again and apply for other groups, etc.

All of this while wow system lets you search for groups ingame (while doing other stuff), see immediately if people wanted you or not and there's a FREAKING FUNCTIONAL CHAT TO SAY HELLO and then you just go to the place. And in D2 you have teleports ffs.

It sucks to see a game that has/had quite a lot of potential being sent down the drain due to the incompetence (and i say this after the leaks from where we know that Bungie basically said "to hard for us to develop an actual game, lets go microtx and be done with it) of some people.

[Snyder]

All of this while wow system lets you search for groups ingame (while doing other stuff), see immediately if people wanted you or not and there's a FREAKING FUNCTIONAL CHAT TO SAY HELLO and then you just go to the place. And in D2 you have teleports ffs.

It sucks to see a game that has/had quite a lot of potential being sent down the drain due to the incompetence (and i say this after the leaks from where we know that Bungie basically said "to hard for us to develop an actual game, lets go microtx and be done with it) of some people.

I have a feeling that Bungie's Ego was too big for them to swallow, they went from FPS -----> MMORPG/FPS which is (Gameplay Design Perspective Context) requires much more technical Nuance then your average Console FPS game with Auto Matchmaking, Voice Chat only.

In Destiny 1 why was there no Music Sound Scale bar, YOU COULD NOT MUTE THE MUSIC IN THE GAME. Like what? why? Escpecially in a game with SO MUCH GRINDING INVOLVED, what on fucking earth were they fucking thinking.

How are these Demands too much? If they can't handle Small Fixes for fundamental simple options in games how can I trust them to make them to fix the other things?

These developers just copy and pasted existing MMORPG mechanics such as light level without any improvements to the system or made things more exciting. There are things in the game that don't take a frigging Genius to figure out are mechanically flawed, such as how the vast majority of weapons have little to no difference even in PvE.

PvE is already heavily flawed with no improvement from the last game since enemy AI is absolute Garbage, higher levels just mean you're going to be bombarded with impossible to dodge AOE's with little to ways to defend yourself from them since everything in general has little effect. There's no true support charachter, there's no true Damage Dealer, there's no true tank.

Everything matters so little there's 0 class composition required in a team who wants beat the Raid, it may be a little easier in some parts, but honestly who the heck cares.

Can't they at-least provide a more in depth experience in game? I understand if people just want to have a fun and simple time, but that should not deter people from wanting a more in depth end game.

[Aliven]

I have a feeling that Bungie's Ego was too big for them to swallow, they went from FPS -----> MMORPG/FPS which is (Gameplay Design Perspective Context) requires much more technical Nuance then your average Console FPS game with Auto Matchmaking, Voice Chat only.

In Destiny 1 why was there no Music Sound Scale bar, YOU COULD NOT MUTE THE MUSIC IN THE GAME. Like what? why? Escpecially in a game with SO MUCH GRINDING INVOLVED, what on fucking earth were they fucking thinking.

How are these Demands too much? If they can't handle Small Fixes for fundamental simple options in games how can I trust them to make them to fix the other things?

These developers just copy and pasted existing MMORPG mechanics such as light level without any improvements to the system or made things more exciting. There are things in the game that don't take a frigging Genius to figure out are mechanically flawed, such as how the vast majority of weapons have little to no difference even in PvE.

PvE is already heavily flawed with no improvement from the last game since enemy AI is absolute Garbage, higher levels just mean you're going to be bombarded with impossible to dodge AOE's with little to ways to defend yourself from them since everything in general has little effect. There's no true support charachter, there's no true Damage Dealer, there's no true tank.

Everything matters so little there's 0 class composition required in a team who wants beat the Raid, it may be a little easier in some parts, but honestly who the heck cares.

Can't they at-least provide a more in depth experience in game? I understand if people just want to have a fun and simple time, but that should not deter people from wanting a more in depth end game.

But man, creating content is hard, it was easier to slab eververse and call it a day.

[Anthemn]

But man, creating content is hard, it was easier to slab eververse and call it a day.

too true. creating content is hard.

[RobertoCarlos]

Game design is actually hard.

Its not easy making a great video game. Thats why you get the fundamentals of the game done correctly instead of trying to cut the game up as much as possible with the main design goal being increased monetization through online repetitive gameplay where you end up with a shell of a base game, then add on DLC and expansion passes promising to fix the base design of the game later on down the road once they already have your money.

Drug dealers use a similar tactic where they lower the quality of their drug with another less expensive substance like fly spray or a bit of washing powder so it looks like you get more value for money, and guess what else drug dealers do that bungie does, they dont offer refunds. You dont like your fly sprayed weed? Too bad take your problems somewhere else Im not interested and you're not getting your money back.

[Aliven]

Game design is actually hard.

Its not easy making a great video game. Thats why you get the fundamentals of the game done correctly instead of trying to cut the game up as much as possible with the main design goal being increased monetization through online repetitive gameplay where you end up with a shell of a base game, then add on DLC and expansion passes promising to fix the base design of the game later on down the road once they already have your money.

Drug dealers use a similar tactic where they lower the quality of their drug with another less expensive substance like fly spray or a bit of washing powder so it looks like you get more value for money, and guess what else drug dealers do that bungie does, they dont offer refunds. You dont like your fly sprayed weed? Too bad take your problems somewhere else Im not interested and you're not getting your money back.

Actually it isnt hard making good video games. Problem lies with that, the exploitative monetization make moar money for publishers. And publishers are mostly interested with profit and not player happiness.

TL;DR: Best money is in lootboxes and other addiction inducing practices.

[Edge-]

Actually it isnt hard making good video games. Problem lies with that, the exploitative monetization make moar money for publishers. And publishers are mostly interested with profit and not player happiness.

TL;DR: Best money is in lootboxes and other addiction inducing practices.

Yeah...making good games is hard. Like, really hard. That's why there are so few truly great games and so many average/underwhelming ones.

And publishers are interested in both, happy players usually spend more than angry players. Not to mention that with Destiny in particular, Eververse was Bungies idea and not something that Activision forced on them.

[RobertoCarlos]

Actually it isnt hard making good video games. Problem lies with that, the exploitative monetization make moar money for publishers. And publishers are mostly interested with profit and not player happiness.

TL;DR: Best money is in lootboxes and other addiction inducing practices.

Making a good game is like writing a good book. If it was so easy everyone would do it and be millionaires.

[Shanden]

And now explain how hard it is to make a good video game after you made a first okayish entry of a series with 3 years worth of players telling you what they want and dont like because only this matters regarding Bungo and Destiny.

[RobertoCarlos]

And now explain how hard it is to make a good video game after you made a first okayish entry of a series with 3 years worth of players telling you what they want and dont like because only this matters regarding Bungo and Destiny.

Well feedback can certainly help. However its not a blueprint to success. What you what will be different to what I want, and the good opinions/feedback can be drowned out by idiots who dont know what they want.

Art works best when its a dictatorship and is one clear vision. Or a shared vision between people on the same wave length with different skills that complements each other and nothing goes into it that isnt agreed by both/all parties.

This becomes even harder when you start looking at the cost of making the games, and the expectations of shareholders and the success of the game is being judged on. Certain targets need to be met and costs need to be kept down, and the original vision can be lost in the business aspects.

[Aliven]

Yeah...making good games is hard. Like, really hard. That's why there are so few truly great games and so many average/underwhelming ones.

And publishers are interested in both, happy players usually spend more than angry players. Not to mention that with Destiny in particular, Eververse was Bungies idea and not something that Activision forced on them.

Let me explain - we are not talking about some indie studio or first time coders but triple A both dev team and publisher. For them making good game is very easy. Not 10/10 but 7-9/10? Easy.

Publisher dont care too much about players. They care about money. Sure, IF players would be happy thats great. But if there is unhappy players who spend moneys like addicts? Sure it better.

[Edge-]

Let me explain - we are not talking about some indie studio or first time coders but triple A both dev team and publisher. For them making good game is very easy. Not 10/10 but 7-9/10? Easy.

Then why isn't literally every AAA game with a decent team behind it 7-9/10?

Because while having an experienced staff and access to a huge budget can help immensely, it doesn't guarantee that games will be good.

And knowing folks that work at some of those studios, they'd probably lose their shit if you told them their job was easy. They bust ass, work long hours at the expense of their personal lives, and often times have incredibly challenging jobs.

Publisher dont care too much about players. They care about money. Sure, IF players would be happy thats great. But if there is unhappy players who spend moneys like addicts? Sure it better.

Again, they care about them in that a happy playerbase is a spending playerbase. Some already know this, but more are recognizing this and adjusting their behavior accordingly. There's countless amounts of data that backs up happy players spending more, not to mention providing more free social marketing via word of mouth and social sharing, compared to angry players who are usually monetized at lower rates and don't provide beneficial social marketing for a game.

[Aliven]

Then why isn't literally every AAA game with a decent team behind it 7-9/10?

Because while having an experienced staff and access to a huge budget can help immensely, it doesn't guarantee that games will be good.

And knowing folks that work at some of those studios, they'd probably lose their shit if you told them their job was easy. They bust ass, work long hours at the expense of their personal lives, and often times have incredibly challenging jobs.



Again, they care about them in that a happy playerbase is a spending playerbase. Some already know this, but more are recognizing this and adjusting their behavior accordingly. There's countless amounts of data that backs up happy players spending more, not to mention providing more free social marketing via word of mouth and social sharing, compared to angry players who are usually monetized at lower rates and don't provide beneficial social marketing for a game.

Actually i believe, looking and examples only from 2017 that publishers are more focused on fast money. But maybe those are outliers.

Mostly all AAA games are with thins range 7-9/10. Sometimes something is fucked up, like with andromeda, but that were publisher interference i believe. Other games, like Destiny 2, are just handled very poorly, but game released is still very good.

I have a hard time remembering a game from triple A publisher and with good dev team which had something below 7 in recent. Can you help me remember? Geniuly question.

[Belize]

Actually i believe, looking and examples only from 2017 that publishers are more focused on fast money. But maybe those are outliers.

Mostly all AAA games are with thins range 7-9/10. Sometimes something is fucked up, like with andromeda, but that were publisher interference i believe. Other games, like Destiny 2, are just handled very poorly, but game released is still very good.

I have a hard time remembering a game from triple A publisher and with good dev team which had something below 7 in recent. Can you help me remember? Geniuly question.

Battlefront 2 EA.

[Aliven]

Battlefront 2 EA.

Thanks. It is actually from 64 to 68% on metacritic. So we have one.

[grandpab]

Again, they care about them in that a happy playerbase is a spending playerbase. Some already know this, but more are recognizing this and adjusting their behavior accordingly. There's countless amounts of data that backs up happy players spending more, not to mention providing more free social marketing via word of mouth and social sharing, compared to angry players who are usually monetized at lower rates and don't provide beneficial social marketing for a game.

You'd think this would just be common sense. It's not much different than other things in life. If you go to buy a car and the salesman does an excellent job selling you the product, but then your experience afterwards is nothing but hell do you think they'll come back and buy another car or continue using your service? Hell no, they'll go somewhere else.