What if... you enter the instance with ONE so-called main (having completed 12/13 heroic) as raidleader and fill up the group with 9 alts? Would that be possible? Then knowing that you won't get it the first week, you could basically do 9 or 24 more the 30 tries ;-)3) you can't use alts to feel out this particular encounter. this isn't normal lich king. this is a heroic-only boss, available once per heroic id. the idea of using alts to get more learning attempts before using mains on the "real" attempts is completely invalid here. to generate more attempts with alts you need an alt raid to clear 12/13Heroic. if you haven't killed Ra-den with your main raid before your alt raid reaches 12/13Heroic, that means you've already had something like 120 attempts (1 month) on Ra-den already... the alt raid would then barely serve you any learning purpose other than having more attempts on the fight you've already progressed on.
The only issue I see with this is your right "MOST GUILDS" could not. Honestly with ra'den this way I guarentee anything that Paragon will Be world first no matter if the boss is harder on 10 like sha was or not. Paragon runs close a 15+ man roster and on top of that Everyone on there roster plays atleast 2-3 toons as well as there main. Blood legion and vodka and US guilds have alot of players who suck ass on there alts. Methoid even doesn't have the mastery of alts that Paragon has. I guarentee paragon will be getting 60 attempts a week by the 2nd week.3) you can't use alts to feel out this particular encounter. this isn't normal lich king. this is a heroic-only boss, available once per heroic id. the idea of using alts to get more learning attempts before using mains on the "real" attempts is completely invalid here. to generate more attempts with alts you need an alt raid to clear 12/13Heroic. if you haven't killed Ra-den with your main raid before your alt raid reaches 12/13Heroic, that means you've already had something like 120 attempts (1 month) on Ra-den already... the alt raid would then barely serve you any learning purpose other than having more attempts on the fight you've already progressed on.
I have a feeling this is going to end in tears and asshattery. I saw so many guilds get screwed out of attempts back in ToGC and ICC, due to lockouts being ninja'd (primarily via Wintergrasp at the time). I sincerely hope that Blizzard makes sure this can't be done this time around. Otherwise...I foresee much asshattery in the future.
30 attempts is more than enough for a weekly limit. I mean if its going to take you more than 30 attempts to down a boss there is no reason you can't wait untill the next week to get another 30 attempts in. If you can't do it in 60 attempts than you aren't the type of player that this boss is aimed at.
I saw it happen repeatedly during WotLK. It happened in Ulduar (Yogg 0, anyone?), ToGC, and ICC. There was a guy on my server during ToGC who got gkicked from his guild before the end of the raid week for bad behavior. It was the first time his former guild had gotten to Anub'arak HC on 25 man. So, he made a raid that night with a friend, went into the instance and spent each and every one of their limited attempts for the week.
Later, during ICC, the GM from that same guild did a similar thing to my guild at the time. He got leader of a Wintergrasp raid group, gave lead to one of my guildies who was in the Wintergrasp raid, then hopped into our ICC Heroic lockout and spent every single one of our end boss attempts. He did this at least twice that I know of.
So, yes, this is going to end in asshattery all around.
Imperial vizier is still the boss with most wipes in short time. Prenerfed most guilds were around 600-800 wipes on it.
I think it's alright, not many guilds will actually get there anytime soon and adding a limit means that guilds will feel a bit more ugency in trying to make the most out of their attempts on the boss.
I had a quick scan and i couldn't see anyone mentioning that this is after the last heroic encounter (lei shen).
Top raiding guilds don't have the time to clear heroic + alt heroic in a week to utilize more attempts.
1 thing i could see happening is say top 5 guilds all waste their attempts then the boss is nerfed and another guild snaggs world first.
You all seem to consider that 12/13 is easily achievable not only in one week , but also with undergeared alts. We do not know how difficult ToT will be , hell , Lei - Shen might be an epic brick wall.
1001 0111 0011 0111 1000 0101
I like it honestly, it forces players who reach that stage to focus rather then just churn out as many attempts as possible until it's routine!- or put in another way, the best guild will get the kill first rather then those with the most time (Assuming guilds at that stage put equal amount of time into reaching it)
Hopefully it also means that extending lockouts won't reset your attempt counter.
That's only relevant for the first week. Most of the top guilds alt runs likely have an current average ilvl of about 505. After the first week of normals, which they'll easily clear on all of their alt runs, their mains and alts will probably be sitting somewhere around 510 with the lucky ones perhaps even 515. Main raid group and alt runs all the same.
What you don't seem to understand is, once you've got a fight down, it really isn't that hard to do it again, even with an alt run... Because all of the strategies and mechanics are down pat. So, assuming the first 12 bosses fall in week one of heroic lockout, depending on how many hours spent per boss, they may not get any alt runs in that week, though in all probability they may still get one or two. However, come the second week the bosses already downed will go down so much faster on the main group that already has some heroic gear - a lot of it considering we're talking about 12 heroic bosses over 2 weeks, that they would have plenty of time for alt runs to maximize their attempts. And even more so, if you have all those alts at that gear level, you realise "frost death knights and arcane mages are incredibly good on this fight, well beyond the ilvl increase of normally being in our main group" and pull out any weaker classes in favour of said DKs and mages. Then I would say they would very literally be prepared to just spend their alt runs getting all of the mechanics down pat so they could do their final 30 attempts on their main group with the classes stacked.