I am too lazy to quote properly with markup tags.
First you said: "Raiding is very simply going into a raid dungeon and killing bosses. No more no less." (aka outdoor boss don't count)
Then you claimed that was Blizzard's definition when someone else disagreed.
Anyways, I don't want to play word game here and I am sure that is why Blizzard has not came out and defined what raiding is. I am just saying don't dress your opinion or a definition you grabbed from wowwiki as Blizzard's definition and use that to invalidate other people's opinions.
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Although this thread is very interesting I will have to be back later. Have to go run a few miles because for some unknown reason the Army will not drop the standards on the APFT to meet what I can complete more easily. The reward being my continued service. Funny thing it will not drop the standards on my subordinates that may end up receiving counselling statements for failing to meet the standard.
There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP
Yes, they abandoned the BC raid design philosophy. No longer is there a single (difficult) raid difficulty that only a tiny fraction of the player population will complete.
From this, I conclude that they were not satisfied with the BC raid design.
The current raid design is not the BC design. It has its own set of problems, but they are not identical to BC's problems.Wasn't it you who said the current content was too hard that not enough players have completed it prior to 5.2? So hard that guilds were dissolving? Wouldn't that be contradicting your statement that Blizzard isn't catering to a small fraction of the player base?
In particular, in the context of where this conversation is coming from, the current design does NOT reserve entire raids worth of art assets for 1% of the player population. LFR means those art assets are seeing a huge amount of use.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
At what point did I ever tell anyone what raiding is? Matter of fact, I never even gave my opinion of what raiding should be. I was following the thread and I saw you putting other ppl's opinion down by pulling "blizzard's definition" of raiding out of thin air. Rage quitting after falsely stating something I never did? I would suggest if you cannot stand the fact that people will disagree on opinions then not only should you not reply to me, you should just stay away from forums in general.
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Blizzard defines a raid encounter as anything that requires more people than a party. Only appropriate level content counts. Going back and solo'ing old raids doesn't count, but doing old raids at the appropriate level does.
Originally Posted by Blizzard EntertainmentOriginally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
There is a practical reason for that. They need you to have a minimum training so you can respond better in battle.
I can assure you its not so that you can feel more rewarding about it.
I dont think games should have similar requirement than the US Army though.
Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-02-27 at 08:06 PM.
So would you, for example, be the sort of person who god modes their way through a single player game?
---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 03:05 PM ----------
This is a good point. The reward has to be something that is deemed worthwhile to pursue, or you have a much larger problem on your hands as a game designer.
---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 03:05 PM ----------
Raiding isn't some Blizzard invention...
MMO player
WoW: 2006-2020 || EvE: 2013-2020 // 2023- || FFXIV: 2020- || Lost Ark: 2022-
Or, they get older, careers, ask for the game to be less time consuming, Blizzard consents, players wind up investing the same amount of time, and just increase the number of alts they have.
MoP hits, lots to do, players say they can't get all their alts VP capped and raid ready on a weekly basis, freak out and ask game to be less time consuming.
Blizzard smashes its own collective head on a desk.
The more Blizz wants to please everyone the less effective they are. I think they had a clearer vision 6 years ago.
MMO player
WoW: 2006-2020 || EvE: 2013-2020 // 2023- || FFXIV: 2020- || Lost Ark: 2022-
If they started catering to you, but moved away to cater to a larger demographic, of course you're going to feel that way. It doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.
---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 08:48 PM ----------
I'm finding four characters is about the max I can gear up through LFR/VP, if I want to VP cap them each week, and even then it is time consuming. This seems alt-friendly enough to me.
It would be fewer if I also wanted to do PvP. But casual PvP is in a bad state right now.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
If...if my Auntie had nuts she would be my Uncle. Company's lose there way through various means, bean counters etc and what not. I guess we can all sit here and be arm chair quarter backs, in the end, we all decide with our wallets I guess. I seriously believe we may see a shift 6 months from now.If they started catering to you, but moved away to cater to a larger demographic, of course you're going to feel that way. It doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.
People saying the experience will be more "rewarding" or "satisfying" for people when they complete more difficult content do not understand that not everyone, and most likely a large majority of players, do not play WoW for a "challenge."
They will not enjoy more difficulty because they don't play WoW, in general, to overcome difficulty. They play it to relax, to socialize, to admire the pixels, to perform meditative tasks like herbing for hours, to game the AH, to collect pets/achievements/mounts, and so on. Perhaps they have difficult day jobs and want to zzzz in the game, or perhaps difficult encounters just aren't their thing.
LFR was a great addition to the game because it lets people have some of the raiding experience in a very accessible, casual way. It's not that different from Baradin Hold in terms of difficulty (I would say almost identical), and BH dropped normal mode gear, and there was not any particular whining about the loot pinata.
It's easy, it's fun for some people (many people), it's VERY popular, and it's not going away. It's not going to get harder either.
If it's no fun because of the lack of challenge, then by all means don't participate. If you participate anyway because you want the gear, then can you please be polite and play your role well.
Hardcore gamers, not just WoW, seem to not grasp that everything has to be about challenge. The best way to challenge people is to either let them choose to be challenged, or build a system in which the game gradually becomes challenging. Blizzard chose the former.
Frankly, I'm a bit confused as to why certain people want certain things. It'd be like complaining that people whom play, say, Metal Gear Solid on Very Easy don't deserve to see the ending, or something. It makes little sense.
No, more to the point, some of these people act like half the game should be cut out if you play it on easy, or something, should be stripped of any rewards at all, and you should be mocked and belittled for playing it on easy, and possibly kicked in the shins.