No new 5-player dungeons in 5.4

[Jawless Jones]

blizzards gotten realllllllllly lazy since cata imo

i really dont find scenarios that fun at all,they seem more like a cheap cop-out dungeon rather than proper content (rather like how dailies arent good content either) and the LFR community makes me cringe and facepalm too much for it to be considered enjoyable

while i do like most content blizzard makes, i really enjoy dungeons more than anything else (especially dungeons like the old ICC 5mans and the new Scarlet 5mans)

on the topic of WoW losing subs
i think its time for blizzard to realise that constant grinding (valour, dailies, conquest, etc) and RNG-based classes/specs/non-mount drops are outdated design concepts and that they should really try to avoid those, however they keep piling them on and people are starting to get sick and tired of it

having luck and the capacity to do the exact same thing every day dictate how you progress in this game is starting to drive people AWAY from this game

[Leonard McCoy]

And of course cata lost millions and millions of subs.

But cata had instant catch up right?

It can't possibly be the reason that it lost millions of subs right?

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Did you even actually read what I wrote? THEY BOTH LOST SUBS BECAUSE NEITHER OF THEM ADDRESSES THE CORE ISSUE. Cataclysm bored players because Blizzard couldn't keep up pace. Mists bores players because Blizzard purposely gates them. EITHER WAY PLAYERS ARE BOREd. The answer is then not to gate players but the answer is TO MAKE MORE CONTENT or at least take the game in some new or innovative direction. Mists is tired. It's stale and it feels stale.

[Deleted]

Did you even actually read what I wrote? THEY BOTH LOST SUBS BECAUSE NEITHER OF THEM ADDRESSES THE CORE ISSUE. Cataclysm bored players because Blizzard couldn't keep up pace. Mists bores players because Blizzard purposely gates them. EITHER WAY PLAYERS ARE BOREd. The answer is then not to gate players but the answer is TO MAKE MORE CONTENT or at least take the game in some new or innovative direction. Mists is tired. It's stale and it feels stale.

OK so more anecdotal evidence then...

I was bored to hell in Cata (I even completed other PC games!) I logged in to raid and do the same 3 5 mans over and over again.

I am not bored in the slightest in MoP, I have a wide variety of things to do to gain Valor outside raiding. I have other fun things that I have hardly touched (Pet Battles and Brawlers Guild for an example).

My anecdotal evidence > yours right?

Would I like more 5 mans, sure they can't be so rewarding that it is the only thing people do but I have no issues outside of that.

I personally would prefer larger raiding tier than new 5 mans if that was the choice.

[Deleted]

So all we get is shitty 10 minute scenario's that feel dead and boring... Welp

[ringpriest]

I personally would rather that they focus on dungeons which have a tried and true purpose with the community (and which appeal to every skill level now, with challenge modes), instead of desperately fumbling around to find a purpose for scenarios. They are wasting way too much time trying to define a feature which was, self-admitted, incredibly vague and without purpose when they released it. They have the tech now, and it can be used for some useful things (like story focused stuff) but I really think the majority of effort gone into scenarios this expansion could have been much better served creating 3-4 cool new dungeons.

WoW is closing in on 10 years of age, so it's obvious that they need (and are trying) to experiment with new things to keep the player base interested. But sometimes you just have to cut your losses, and perhaps they should realise that "3 man dungeons that are not really dungeons and are super easy and which give shitty rewards (woops, this made people not want to do them so now they give less shitty rewards) and which for the most part could have just been easier 5 mans, and now we want to make some more challenging ones as well, what are we doing :S" is not really a very well designed feature. They don't really serve any niche that another variation / difficulty setting for ordinary dungeons couldn't have done. When people wanted new features for WoW, I don't think kind-of-dungeons-except-for-3-people! was high up on the list.

I think scenarios were supposed to be a replacement for group quests. They failed in that sense, because they're infected with the "no need for community" and "easy enough that everyone wins" bugs that have quietly been trashing WoW for years now. But even if they'd suceeded, that would just be running a Red Queen's Race. Blizz needs to take a big step back and realize that ever since Ghostcrawler came on board, the devs have been cutting as much out of the game as they've been putting into it. (I'm not blaming him specifically, just using him as a convenient marker.) Blizz needs to stop cuttting, trashing, bypassing, nerfing, and ignoring the game they've spent years building. Then maybe they can quit complaining about "omg, players burn through content so fast and then complain!"

I can't help but think about the Benediction and Rhok questlines, and the dungeon set upgrades. They used existing locations and instances, and only needed some quests and npcs to be added, but they were huge, fun timesinks. Apparently Blizzard hates long questlines now though.

[Deleted]

They'll continue to make useless one-time scenarios, tho. Atleast the VP reward could be the same as doing dungeons.

Hahahaha, like I said in my first post. God damn, Blizzard keeps repeating mistakes.

[Deleted]

Why do people want new dungeons? Let them focus on releasing quality raids instead.. 5.2 is a great example of a superb patch.

[MasterHamster]

Why do people want new dungeons? Let them focus on releasing quality raids instead.. 5.2 is a great example of a superb patch.

Apparently not if you think that the game should only offer as much content as the last patch released.
So much fail in the argument it's absurd.

Players who doesn't like progressing their characters shouldn't play RPGs

[Deleted]

Hey guys, look at this comparison:
The Burning Crusade, which is generally praised as the best period of WoW, offered players SIXTEEN 5-man dungeons, with ALL of them having both normal and heroic mode.
Wrath of the Lich King: same number. Once again SIXTEEN awesome, fun dungeons, once again all of them available in normal/heroic mode.

Now here comes Mists of LFR-tardia. Only NINE dungeons. Of those, only FOUR are available on normal mode difficulty. So if any masochists decide to level by doing dungeons, they will be seeing the freaking SAME FOUR places over and over again. Oh, and only FOUR dungeons take you into truly new places. SM + Scholo are rehashed zones, Gate of Setting Sun and Siege of Niuzao are just instanced "snapshots" of Vale/Townlong Steppes, only filled with elite insects. So the awesome team responsible for creating dungeons brought us -FOUR- dungeons. Thats not even pathetic anymore.

And about scenarios as a "new content" and replacement for group quests:

Both TBC and Wotlk had TONS of 3 or 5 man group quests, which I personally loved. They offered nice blue quality items as rewards, and you could work out some nice strategies for beating them with less players (or even solo) or doing them without healer/tank. I still remember beating Durn the Hungerer in Nagrand with 3 people, me as a hunter, another hunter and a rogue, with kiting the boss and reseting aggro. It was challenging and great fun.

If scenarios were meant to replace group quests, they failed in every single aspect. They pose zero challenge to complete. And together with the various LFR/LFG tools, they further remove the "World" from World of Warcraft.

Before, you had to travel to a specific place in the world to do the group quests, and you might have encounterd extra challenges, such as aggroing additional mobs, or being attacked by opposite faction. OR! some random players might have been nearby, joined your group and helped you complete it faster. Either way, you were part of a living world. Now you click queue button, get teleported to some random place, get grouped up with two random LFR-tards who will probably be terrible and you will be mostly soloing the scenario...
Blizzard probably suspected that the players will be terrible, so in each scenario you will just be clicking on things, and all enemies die, and if you do take some damage, there is some NPC nearby to heal you.

[Crashdummy]

This is one of the worst decisions they could have made.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 08:54 AM ----------

Why do people want new dungeons? Let them focus on releasing quality raids instead.. 5.2 is a great example of a superb patch.

5.2 is an example of a shitty patch that will probably make me unsub.

Why is it so hard to understand that many of us LOVE dungeons, a feature that has been the CORE of World of Wacraft since the beginning?

[Elim Garak]

OK so more anecdotal evidence then...

I was bored to hell in Cata (I even completed other PC games!) I logged in to raid and do the same 3 5 mans over and over again.

I am not bored in the slightest in MoP, I have a wide variety of things to do to gain Valor outside raiding. I have other fun things that I have hardly touched (Pet Battles and Brawlers Guild for an example).

Do you have a full time job?

[Unholyground]

To be honest I would absolutely LOVE if they re did all the nether storm dungeons as heroics or even regulars. The scaling system they are adding will hopefully do raids and dungeons.

[Draenox]

To me, the old 5mans proved as a mean of storytelling, to alleviate a story in a different place and manner than just the raids. We have scenarios for that now though, so naturally the dungeons are not needed for that anymore.

Which has to translate in to more raiding content for us in the end, hopefully.

[Saffa]

Dungeons are meh anyways, can't be arsed to run them even for valor. Scenarios are in my opinion much better because you are less likely to get grouped with... your average LFG person, it's easier to get a quick guild group to run it at any time of the day since there is no role-check and you only need two extra people.

I would prefer solo-scenarios to farm for valor though, I really just can't stand the random people you group up with in LFR, LFG, BG's etc anymore.

Can't you find people in your guild or friends to do things with?

[AVPaul]

I'll give you another example of "physical" vs "moral" obsolescence of content. Let's take a look at "no flying till 90lvl". What was the intent of this change? To show players great design of Pandaria continent? Ok. I saw it once, may be twice. I can definitely say, that it's enough for me and, I guess, for any other player, "to see the design". So what's the point for forcing me to have this crappy loop of mobs on my tail and being in damn endless combat while leveling all of my alts? It can't be just due to devs "religious views". So I may assume, that this feature should prolong "physical" life time of content. But what about "moral" life time? I've got frustated even after first time. I tryed leveling via LFD only...but...only 4 dungeons made me bored too fast. Then I've asked myself - wtf? Why should I avoid some content? I just want to level up my alts in a manner I prefer to do it. Just level up! I don't want to "see" any "content" anymore. And then I just unsubbed... So what's the result of this change? It's opposite to what devs wanted. Same with gating and no catch-ups. Old content becames morally obsolete as new content is released, no matter want devs it to happen or not and trying to prolong it's life may only cause even worse results.

[bufferunderrun]

If you by saying "need to do the new daily hub" means killing ONE rare mob and getting the epic key for the solo scenario where you can farm 10-20 elder charms of good fortune within 5 min then yes you are "forced" to enter that zone.

The loot chance of the bosses are now roughly 2.5 times higher then before the patch and with enough coins now to have one for each boss each time you clear a raiddfinder it's like you killed each boss 5 times compared to the previous patch. I pretty much got my hunter alt covered in more than half epic gear from just one clear.

You can get a freshly dinged 90 to ilvl 480 within 1-2 weeks now, i mean between crafted 496 gear, 522 neck with no rep grinding needed and a 5 times higher drop-chance on raidfinder gear it's pretty easy.

I know the weapon is pretty important but saying that because your friends RNG is really bad for one item doesn't mean that he can't reach high enough ilvl to start raiding. Pretty sure raidteams doesn't refuse to take people because they havn't gotten a raidfinder weapon yet.

it's not 1 mob, the highest drop rate is 13% from the summoned rare the other are btw 8-11% so it's not that common if you don't do the dailies and kill more mobs, again gz if you are luky and got your alt pretty much done with just one run but the point about the difference in using the lfr and the lfg to catch up still standing. And no entering the second tier and possibily the third with a blue 463 weapon is not a good thing.

[Deleted]

Just redo every single dungeon in the entire game for true level 90 heroic equivalency. Quit acting like redoing 5 mans requires "lore" to back it up. It's a f'in game.

[Deleted]

Where did they get the idea that people like scenarios though? They can keep their shitty scenario's. I'd rather have 5 mans.
I'm not even going to bother running scenario's, even for 'greater rewards'. I've did all of them and found all of them to be equally boring...

[Deleted]

Do you have a full time job?

Yes I am a DBA for a worldwide design and print company.

I am 43, have a wife and kid and play a couple of hours most days (not every day).

Would you like to know anything else?

WTF has that got to do with anything?

[Anjerith]

Dungeons have long, long been the bane of my existance in Warcraft. I Lovingly run them once; for the storylines they tell. Getting me into them after that is pretty much exclusive to two things; Completing a quest for an alt, or helping someone in-guild get an achievement.

Scenarios, however, are pretty fun little button-mash fests. In some instances they even require a little player skill (the new treasure trove scenario, for example) which is far more than can be said about even the most difficult of the dungeons. The fact that they can be developed more quickly than dungeons, give valor but not gear, and can assist in telling the story easily as much as a dungeon make them the defacto solution to small group questing in-game.

So long Dungeons, seeya next expansion.