Throne of Thunder - World First Heroic Thread!

[Deleted]

The fights are balanced around 10m having less gear (less TF, more wasted, & just flat less dropping)...

Anyone stating that just dont raid heroics early on (and yes im 7/13 H 10 man atm) so i do know what you are saying is just not true.

[Radalek]

That claim was made years ago when 10man was easy mode. These days, a 10man will have at least 6 of the 8 buffs.

No, it was stated when there was discussion about why TF items were introduced so it's pretty new and relevant.

---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 09:57 PM ----------

Anyone stating that just dont raid heroics early on (and yes im 7/13 H 10 man atm) so i do know what you are saying is just not true.

He's right though, they are balanced around that.

[Deleted]

The fights are balanced around 10m having less gear (less TF, more wasted, & just flat less dropping)...

source please?

[Vakna]

No, it was stated when there was discussion about why TF items were introduced so it's pretty new and relevant.

---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 09:57 PM ----------



He's right though, they are balanced around that.

Almost every boss is having around 3 times the health on 25 to 10, and most of the time 25 man has almost exactly 3 times the amount of damage dealers. Consider the fact 10 mans generally do get less geared, and have less dps per person due to fewer raidwide damage boosting cd's... I just don't understand how you can even think that is correct.

Unless you don't raid, that would explain a lot.

[kaiadam]

Almost every boss is having around 3 times the health on 25 to 10, and most of the time 25 man has almost exactly 3 times the amount of damage dealers. Consider the fact 10 mans generally do get less geared, and have less dps per person due to fewer raidwide damage boosting cd's... I just don't understand how you can even think that is correct.

Unless you don't raid, that would explain a lot.

25m tanks don't do 3x the damage of 10m tanks. More like 100-160%, depending on the fight.

[Vakna]

25m tanks don't do 3x the damage of 10m tanks. More like 100-160%, depending on the fight.

When did I say that? O.o

EDIT: nvm I'm being dim, so maybe the extra tank damage ratio for 10 man almost makes up for the more damage 25 mans get from raidwide buffs.. but I doubt all of it.

Still doesn't explain why this guy above thinks that 10 mans are balanced to a lesser ratio than 25's, if anything at all they are tighter, based on pure mathematics alone.

[Deleted]

25m tanks don't do 3x the damage of 10m tanks. More like 100-160%, depending on the fight.

Well the fact that a 25 man usually have 13 dpsers tunneling a boss 95% of the time and a minority of 1-3 dps actually doing the fights mechanical work, which decreases their overall dps by far. Now that 1-3 number is 90% of the time true in 10 man too, so now we can get up to more than 50% of our dps doing way lower just due to a fights mechanic where the 25 man can just cheese it with the pure amount of players/CDs they have, this if not basically puts 25 man at an advantage which it does imo but to be nice i can say it puts an equal gear preassure, now you can add the amount of stormlashes/banners + the extra gear you get and all of a sudden a 25 man is way ahead. Now if you dont understand this, then you just havent even been in a 10 man environment without heavily overgearing it (which 99% of all topraiders do and then say 10 man is so easy while they have alrdy cleared that content on 25 and overgear it. Making that kind of statements is nice isnt it? I especially love when the community believes it <3.)

[Old]

Well the fact that a 25 man usually have 13 dpsers tunneling a boss 95% of the time and a minority of 1-3 dps actually doing the fights mechanical work, which decreases their overall dps by far.

Which is, to my knowledge, an equally stupid statement.

[Deleted]

Which is, to my knowledge, an equally stupid statement.

As long as you believe in it

[Deleted]

Asia First Heroic Lei Shen 25m by *煌 in CN-Server

[Old]

As long as you believe in it

I'd love some examples instead of "usually". Cause most adds HP scale the same way than the boss, requiring as much % of your raid on them. You can also probably consider playing with disc priest + monk a great advantage dps-wise in 10man. It's a much different story in 25man.

[Deleted]

Since you were so nice i will let you do the thinking yourself. What do the average dpser on meagera 25 hc do on 25 man? what do the average dpser do on council 25 hc? what do the average dpser do on ji-kun 25 hc? what do the average dpser do on horridon 25 hc? Do i really need to go on. You are so butthurt its not even fun so if you havent played 10 man in a real 10 man guild without no previous exp and actually doing it the same way as you do your 25 man progress today you would know what it feels like.

[Deleted]

Aisa First Heroic Leishen 25m by *煌 in CN-Server

[Promethieus]

Aisa First Heroic Leishen 25m by *煌 in CN-Server

Ground Zero got Asia first.

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/asia

[Deleted]

I'd love some examples instead of "usually". Cause most adds HP scale the same way than the boss, requiring as much % of your raid on them. You can also probably consider playing with disc priest + monk a great advantage dps-wise in 10man. It's a much different story in 25man.

First of all paladins are way stronger than monks in both healing, damage, utility and i totally agree that some fights on 10 man can feel a bit weird, but then again those fights will be 100% cheesable for any 25 man meanwhile a 10 man has to have a paladin and although it gives u a big advantage compared to other 10 mans, you still didnt answer for the fact that a 25 mans raid will have general higher dps which just negates that paladin tank dps for a 10 man, what it does create though is the necessity of having a paladin tank in a serious 10 man hc guild, which is always fun, same applies to Dpriest pretty much. Luckily my guild has that so i wont complain but i do feel bad for all the 10 mans not having those classes/specs to go with it really puts them just further down from they alrdy are by being 10 man.

By the way i dont know if you actually play a dps or not and really i dont care because the statement about switching adds is just wtf?? obviously on any adds that should require everyone in either a 10 or 25 to switch will require so, you already said it yourself the hp scaling is 1-3 which will make for a fair number, i was talking about mechanics that apply to usually 1 player in a raid where you cant decrease it to 0,4 players in 10 man right? You want an example or two? frostbite, cinders, ice torrent, sandtrap.

[Bliq]

Dear god, you people are still debating 10v25... Fucking get over that stupid discussion already.

[Old]

Now that you bring the point to the table, I was actually looking at the kill time of Megaera.

Same day, same reset:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8r...?s=9079&e=9563
This our fastest kill. 126k dps per player on average, 25 players included. Fight lasts 8:04.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vj...=11404&e=11813
This is Moonz fastest kill. 111,5k dps per player on average, 10 players included. Fight lasts 6:49.

While there is clearly a difference in average dps, the fight is way faster. Obviously it's hard to gauge the impact of aoeing the adds but still.
Less dps requirement for a fight that is ~20% faster. DPS requirements in 10 man are usually way lower.

[Deleted]

it's a 10man Leishen Kill, Asia 5th.
what i say is 1st Kill in 25m.
OVERALL in Asia： 1st Style(10) 2nd Stars(10) 3rd Wings of Aurora(10) 4th Dust（10） 5th Ground Zero（10） 6th *煌[7Huang]（25）
BTW wowprogress get the Progress in CN-Server.
there is a Website called loyogou. It is a chinese wowprogress site which has acess to the Armory of CN-Server

[Deleted]

Ground Zero got Asia first.

wowprogress cant get the progress info in CN-Server

Overall in Asia: 1st Style(10) 2nd Stars(10) 3rd Wings of Aurora(10) 4th Dust(10) 5th Ground Zero(10) 6th *煌[7Huang](25)

[jimakos84]

that goes for discmeedel

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