Is MoP really as unfriendly to alts as it seems like in my mind?

[Twotonsteak]

I JUST (as in less than thirty minutes ago) hit 90...on my 10th toon. I also have two toons fully ready and geared for raiding (one main, one alt) and several at various points in LFR-progression.

Leveling can be a bit "grindy" and boring after the first two. However it is by no means unfriendly to alts. Especially considering the various ways Blizzard has tried to ease alt-progression with things like BoA rep boosts, increased LFR drops, ect.

[Windfury]

I'm so tired if this RNG shitty complains. In WoW you ALWAYS prayed to RNG gods to get items. This BC badge system spoiled players and now everyone wants free epics

Just because something is ALWAYS done one way doesn't make it the right way, and moreover as you yourself have said since TBC there hasn't been so much RNG reliance. That's hardly 'always'.

It is awful when it's all there is. I've said it before and I'll say it again in ~800 LFR boss kills across toons I have gotten 3 items of loot. That's garbage by any measure. I raided properly through tiers 1-10 and don't remember it *always* being like that, in fact I remember even with RNG I'd end up in a BIS set within the tier (and I was helped there by badge pieces in one way or another), whereas last tier I didn't even get a single tier piece. And yes, shitty RNG is shitty and it has to happen to someone, but that is why there should be some alternative option/s.

[Deleted]

Just because something is ALWAYS done one way doesn't make it the right way, and moreover as you yourself have said since TBC there hasn't been so much RNG reliance. That's hardly 'always'.

It is awful when it's all there is. I've said it before and I'll say it again in ~800 LFR boss kills across toons I have gotten 3 items of loot. That's garbage by any measure. I raided properly through tiers 1-10 and don't remember it *always* being like that, in fact I remember even with RNG I'd end up in a BIS set within the tier, whereas last tier I didn't even get a single tier piece. And yes, shitty RNG is shitty and it has to happen to someone, but that is why there should be some alternative option/s.

I admit that situation is really depressing, I had terrible luck on my monk in T14 aswell, but blizzard already figured a way to fix it up - raid reputation. ( I know it's not a new concept, but you can cover most of the slots with gear from them, not like a ring in ICC for example)
Yes I know it's only woirking in ToT, but they increased loot drop in T14 and allowed you to easy farm it with elder charms if you want to compensate tha lack of reputation.
Shado pan offensive will allow to gear up even if your luck is terrible.

[Windfury]

I admit that situation is really depressing, I had terrible luck on my monk in T14 aswell, but blizzard already figured a way to fix it up - raid reputation.
Yes I know it's only woirking in ToT, but they increased loot drop in T14 and allowed you to easy farm it with elder charms if you want to compensate tha lack of reputation.
Shado pan offensive will allow to gear up even if your luck is terrible.

I haven't gotten a single drop since the new 'increases' and I've religiously done everything available on each of the 5 toons I have that can get into any LFRs (all via pvp gear) the last two lockouts (i.e. since the patch). And just to clarify I usually run it on 3 toons, but I've tried it on everything I have since the patch because 'increased droprates' but it seems no matter how many toons I throw at it it's going to be a failure.

And yes, I will get some stuff via raid rep eventually (which is good, don't get me wrong I'm happy about that). But the point still remains this xpac has been more brutal RNG wise than any I've ever played (and I played since vanilla), if you're on the wrong end of it it is really not very fun, and it's super frustrating to have invested so much time, way more than most people, and have gotten so much less.

Saying RNG will fix it simply isn't going to be true for everyone, because that's the nature of RNG. And saying it's always been this way isn't even close to the truth.

Clearly it's making me bitter and annoyed, which doesn't seem like the ideal outcome.

[rhorle]

And saying it's always been this way isn't even close to the truth.

It is though. RNG has always been the primary method to gear up. Raids and Dungeons have used it since the inception of the game. Blizzard then added alternate means through Reputation and Badges. Badges were later turned into Valor and Justice system we have today.

[Deleted]

It is though. RNG has always been the primary method to gear up. Raids and Dungeons have used it since the inception of the game. Blizzard then added alternate means through Reputation and Badges. Badges were later turned into Valor and Justice system we have today.

Yes I agree RNG was always pain in the ass, and lady luck is not on my side, but only advice I would gave is to actually raid with a guild, there's more gear dropping and there's no way in hell you wouldn't gear up eventually.

[Windfury]

It is though. RNG has always been the primary method to gear up. Raids and Dungeons have used it since the inception of the game. Blizzard then added alternate means through Reputation and Badges. Badges were later turned into Valor and Justice system we have today.

And you think the RNG of LFR is the same as through previous raids? Th current LFR loot system is new. Not being able to trade (or negotiate who takes the drops in some way - as has *always* been done) etc is making it much more painful and brutal than it ever has been in the past. It is absolutely making it harder to gear up than any previous RNG based system.

Yes I agree RNG was always pain in the ass, and lady luck is not on my side, but only advice I would gave is to actually raid with a guild, there's more gear dropping and there's no way in hell you wouldn't gear up eventually.

I'd love to, but my job just doesn't allow for it. I can't keep scheduling promises anymore. We all eventually have to grow up :P

[GrieverXIII]

I hate all forms of questing. I would much rather have automatic level 90s with zero work.

That said, I love raiding and progressing the power of my characters, raiding, competing, and working together with my friends.

How can you say that I don't belong in an MMO because I hate questing of all things?

Because questing is MMO gameplay in its purest form. Everything started from there, its staple in the entire RPG genre (MMORPG). If you dislike questing that much, yes you don't belong in an MMO.

In case you try to bash me, its coming from someone who both do Heroic raiding and high end PvP, but thats not those activities that got me into the game tough, they are merely evolutions of questing.

[Deleted]

I hate all forms of questing. I would much rather have automatic level 90s with zero work.

That said, I love raiding and progressing the power of my characters, raiding, competing, and working together with my friends.

How can you say that I don't belong in an MMO because I hate questing of all things?

how is gaining new levels not progressing in power? think of it that way and you're fine.

[Vulcanasm]

Since MoP was released and maybe a bit before that even, I've been under the impression that the way Mists of Pandaria was designed was aggressively harsh towards players that enjoy playing characters other than their main. For this reason, I cancelled my account a few months ago. I've been watching to see if Blizzard was going to relax its stance on alts, but if anything they seem to be taking an increasingly hard line. For instance, they have removed automatic flight point discovery just lately, and they've basically said flat out that they have no plans on ever giving us heirloom MoP flying.

I'd kinda like to get back into WoW, but there's just no chance of that as long as my NINE alts are basically unplayable. But I have to wonder...does this situation really seem as bad to everyone else as it does to me, or am I exaggerating it in my mind?

What made you cancel in the first place? Was it the rep grinds?

[SherbertLand]

And you think the RNG of LFR is the same as through previous raids? Th current LFR loot system is new. Not being able to trade (or negotiate who takes the drops in some way - as has *always* been done) etc is making it much more painful and brutal than it ever has been in the past. It is absolutely making it harder to gear up than any previous RNG based system.



I'd love to, but my job just doesn't allow for it. I can't keep scheduling promises anymore. We all eventually have to grow up :P

Maybe you should quit.

[lockedout]

Since MoP was released and maybe a bit before that even, I've been under the impression that the way Mists of Pandaria was designed was aggressively harsh towards players that enjoy playing characters other than their main. For this reason, I cancelled my account a few months ago. I've been watching to see if Blizzard was going to relax its stance on alts, but if anything they seem to be taking an increasingly hard line. For instance, they have removed automatic flight point discovery just lately, and they've basically said flat out that they have no plans on ever giving us heirloom MoP flying.

I'd kinda like to get back into WoW, but there's just no chance of that as long as my NINE alts are basically unplayable. But I have to wonder...does this situation really seem as bad to everyone else as it does to me, or am I exaggerating it in my mind?

When I first started playing no one had alts really. Alts came about towards the end of TBC when there was nothing to do. I'm not saying no one had alts before this time period. This is when I seem to remember people having free time to make alts. Before then the game was pretty time consuming and having two max level toons was just meh not to many people had them. So blame blizzard for making content that is so easy it takes no time to complete. 5 mans-15 mans used to be huge and take hours. Leveling took forever etc.

[Tenjen]

iam not seeing any difficulty, even less with the changes they made what with Rep being more easily earnable from more sources now and being boosted as well with those faction tokens that our mains buy once.

[Deafyx]

Back in Cata, I maintained 6 geared toons for Dragon Soul while having all 10 toons at 85 for Professions and etc.

MoP, I have 6 90's, and only my main raids. With the only epic gear coming from LFR and Regular Raids, I decided this time around my toons were going to be for PvP/Professions and that was it because I was not going to sit there and blow all my time on doing dalies on 6 toons. All my 90s are in at least full Dreadful gear, with 2 of them in full Malovent. This patch, I will be focusing on my Rogue for Raiding and PvP, while my Holy Pally is ONLY for PvP.

So yes, I agree with the OP. MoP is unfriendly in many ways towards alts and I will admit I only leveled some of my toons for professions and the 5 90s achieve. The main reason is capping valor does nothing for you unless you have the correct stage of rep for a certain faction.

[Mementomori1993]

I'm pretty sure you didn't play Wotlk then. Even at the start of wrath, the last boss in every heroic dropped an epic. It got even easier after the first few patches like 3.2 and 3.3 where every boss in a given heroic dropped at least a single epic that was on par with ulduar gear. Plus crafted epics weren't as hard to get and you had BoA flying tomes.

I don't know where you get the idea that cataclysm ruined everyone's perception. Even in late cata I could gear an alts ms and os within 2-3 weeks.

In MoP I have my main (DK) and a Mage/Paladin/Warrior. My Mage/Paly are both fairly well geared, but I have dumped an epic boatload of time into gearing these characters. I'm talking dailies I have already done before, every LFR, every week. Utilizing every crafting recipe possible and spending tons of gold on other gear.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong.

[Abysal]

It depends on what your goals are with your alts.

If you want all your alts to be geared and able to raid current content, good luck. If you simply want to hit 90 on all of them and have a few that are decently geared, you can pull that off pretty easily.

[Vulcanasm]

I don't know where you get the idea that cataclysm ruined everyone's perception. Even in late cata I could gear an alts ms and os within 2-3 weeks.

...may I answer for him? I think the issue most had with Cataclysm and alts was in 4.0. Once your main farmed out heroics, there was no incentive to run them. Ergo, anyone still running them more than 3 weeks after launch day wound up in a perpetual "failure" loop of back benchers, b-listers, griefers, and no-skill primadonna drama -- and the heroics were too overtuned to accommodate more than one undergeared character who didn't know them well.

A huge part of why I unsubscribed in 4.0 was that. Gearing an alt took 5x the time as gearing your main, because 80% of heroic runs fell apart on the first boss. Wait in a queue 45 minutes...not even 1 Justice Point to show for it.

[xanzul]

Agreed!

All I'll say is that FP's not unlocking automatically have nothing to do with the absolute linear nature of this expansion (by far the worst) No matter if there are enough quests as some say, to not need to repeat - when you're on your 5+ alt - you cannot get away from it.

If you have time to lvl 5 characters to 90 you have time to gear them. I'm sorry but the second people start talking about gearing up 5-9 characters I lose all sympathy for them.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 12:33 AM ----------

If you are going to level reasonably efficiently, you really DO have to do the exact same incredibly annoying quests in the exact same zones from level 88-90. Every. Single. Time. Townlong is linear, and the first half of Dread Wastes is the same no matter what.

If you don't do those same quests and do something else instead, for example, you loremaster Krasarang and Kun-Lai, it will take 2-4x+ as long.

So you would rather have less fun lvling so you can lvl faster rather than lvl slower and enjoy the game? That right there gets to the root of this complaint. That is your own personal choice and no one is to blame but you for taking the less enjoyable path.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 12:35 AM ----------

The issue is people used to be able to work on their mains for maybe 2 hours a day to do their daily heroic, daily bg, and then do their fireland dailies...I used to be able to do firelands dailies, along with dragonmaw and deepholm dailies in the same amount of time it takes me to do Klaxxi dailies (and then you still have more hubs AFTER that). It's not the same as it used to be because now all your time is spent progressing on one character.

The only easy way to get around the "grindy" feeling is reach exalted with all reps on main, then you can start working on those reps with one alt...get exalted rinse and repeat with the rest of your alts. Being as you need exalted reps to gain access to certain profession recipes you can't really say they are voluntary. Now, it wouldn't be such an issue if the quests didn't take so long to do either. Granted better gear WILL help lessen the time spent, it really only cuts off so much time...and since dailies are needed for the coins it makes it less likely you can gear more than one character at a time. It's not about getting a free ride or anything like that. I think the improvements they made rep wise is nice...but I just think they need to go a step further...maybe make the coins BoA instead? This way, no matter what character you choose to do dailies with you can still gear slightly quicker from LFR. (Hoping RNG is on your side...it's pretty sad when I got gear more often from the old system even with people who would hit need on everything simply to vendor or DE it).

You could argue then people will farm coins all day, but they still have a cap. And who cares at that point? It still requires them to do a crap ton of dailies for those coins...but it also makes it feel less like you need to be on your main to get the coins. At least people could work on rep with their alts, and get coins for their main to do LFR for the week still. There are a lot of solutions to the problem that I think a lot of people could get behind. Not being forced to be on your main and do dailies on them for coins when you are already max rep, and being able to work on rep with your alts for valor gear...you kill two birds with one stone. I feel it's a change MANY players will get behind simply because they won't have to do all the dailies on both their main and their alt everyday of the week...and once one alt is maxed out with rep you can start on the next, etc...and then start using the coins to gear the previous alt...a well oiled daily machine where you only have to do dailies ONCE a day, not 3 or more times if you don't feel like it.

An even simpler solution is to stop trying to do it all on every character. You don't need all your alts to be as geared as your main and you certainly don't need bonus rolls for all your alts.

[DarthMonk79]

i personally have 12 90's.. 8 of which are at least LFR level or higher. to say that its not alt friendly is insane. They added more BoA gear and there have been rumors of more. Getting riding skills and mount skills is still way cheaper than it used to be. I'm glad that you have to find FP's again. You are supposed to be in the "world" of warcraft. Meaning you have to explore said world and find your way around. the game has got super easy over the years. I was in the military while i got most of my 90's, so i was at work/pt or out in the field 0500 to 1700 at least and still had time to level toons and do heroics, dailies and LFR. True my main is the highest geared but he is also my favorite character to play, that is why he's my main. I find people that say they hate questing yet play a MMORPG funny as hell... questing/dungeons and leveling has always been the biggest part of MMO's, even most RTS games have you level to upgrade items/skills.

[xanzul]

I think Blizzard deliberately trying to make MOP less friendly to alt compared to previous 2 expansions. Just look at the 5.2 patch, JP can only get you 458 gear, so for your alt to actually get to the latest raid, you have to grind through the previous tiers (assuming there are actually people trying to look for those raids). Terrible idea imho.

Once again for the eternally dense:
1. crafting
2. faction tapped world bosses
3. endless elder charms from the treasure trove scenario
4. significantly increased drop rate in tier 14 LFR
5. cross realm tier 14 raiding

All gear sources that don't involve touching one single daily nor a significant time commitment. If you somehow can't get geared up reasonbly quickly in 5.2 then you are doing something very wrong. Also now we have bonus rep for daily heroic/scenarios, rep for the 5.0/5.1 factions through work orders at the tiller farm, rares in Pandaria that drop tokens worth 1000 rep for various factions and many other things that contribute to gearing up.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 12:44 AM ----------

No, I'm not doing it backwards. I don't even have a "main" character. I don't even like the concept of "main." I do have one character I play more than the others, but that one character changes.

It changed more often in Cataclysm when it was easier to gear.

Again this is personal choice and not a game design issue. If you want to constantly flip flop characters without concentrating on a few that is on you not Blizzard.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 12:47 AM ----------

1. Removing flying points is unfriendly to alts, there is nothing to explore left for someone who has a level 90 already. How is does that even get to be an argument, what kind of exploring is done with the 6.th character one levels? If anything they ought to make it so that you have to discover them once on any character on your account and be done with it.

2. Just because you for the first time leveled two characters doesn't mean it's not unfriendly to alts. In fact it means you wouldn't know.

3. The rep bonus was introduced because the rep grind was insane before it. It took a hell of a lot of time and even Blizzard admitted it was way more mandatory than they liked.

Automatic flight paths were removed to promote a more active world and it is perfectly fine. Flight paths aren't the only method of travel nor is it even the most efficient way of travel. If you can't handle an extra 30 seconds of travel time to ride over to the next flight path then I think the problem may be mmos aren't for you and not a game design issue.