Patch 5.3: Pushing the Horde apart

[Coldhearth]

Of top of my head: you're clueless.

Also of top of my head: there's tauren + night elf, dwarf + blood elf pairs, and several mixed racial expeditions in game right now. There's many more in books/other lore. Only thing that realistically prevents this in game is artificial game mechanic limitation..

There are lots of mixed factions (argent dawn, cult of the damned, etc). We are talking about the horde and the alliance, however. These are the player controlled factions. Blizzard probably isn't too keen on allowing orcs/taurens/etc to join the alliance, or humans/nelfs/etc to join the horde.

I'm done arguing this.

[Scummer]

It will be interesting to see the "breaking point" when Varian needs help of Thrall, Vol'Jin and Baine to defeat Garrosh. I think Jaina will have something to do with it as she realises all the rush to conclusions she has done over the past few patches.

Why would Varian need help?

[Anjerith]

Goblins are the one race I really want to see step up. Gallywix will side with the most profitable side, but I think the Cartel should separate and fight back. Kick some Gallywix ass..

Here is the thing; *PLAYERS* can see their goblin character as being noble, heroic or paragons of virtue. The reality of the Warcraft setting is that *all* goblins are out to make a profit. Whoever gets them the gold is who they support. So, even though he is a tyrant and a general douchebag, Gallywix is the Best Goblin for the Job so far as the Goblin peoples are concerned.

[Venant]

Maybe it will have something to do with Garrosh using powers derived from either the Mogu or Sha to empower his soldiers. The Thunder King apparently uses titan based powers to empower his minions and the Sha use old god related powers to corrupt, so perhaps Garrosh will gain access to some sort of hybrid old god/titan power that will be seen as an abomination by all of the 'good guys.' I suppose if they really wanted to go all out, they could have Garrosh get his hands on some sort of titan superweapon, Garrosh could basically pull a Kefka ala FF3.

[Thulvaso]

Why would Varian need help?

I'm just speculating, usually when we take down "the big bad guy" in this case Garrosh it requires the resources and efforts of both factions. Also the Horde rebels will know Orgrimmar inside out, the rest of the Alliance would be going in blind.

[Screwtape]

All I know is that there will be thread after thread complaining about how the Alliance got the short end of the stick.

[Arrashi]

These news really got me interested. I really wonder if 5.3/5.4 will have worse writing and more lorelol's than hearth of the swarm had. I must say kerrigan having patriotic speeches to zerg put the challenge quite nicely.

[Deleted]

It would not ruin the integrity of the game. This game is all about adapting and changing lore.

The factions would still exist from what he's saying, only there would be some who side with one side and others who side with the other in all the races.

That vision Velen had of the Golden Clad warrior leading Horde and Alliance races with the Dragons and Naaru against the Burning Legion would actually make sense with this.

YEAH that totally makes sense. Lets break up guilds over night.. "Sorry guys I can't raid with you anymore, I'm a dwarf horde. -.-

[Florena]

YEAH that totally makes sense. Lets break up guilds over night.. "Sorry guys I can't raid with you anymore, I'm a dwarf horde. -.-

Not to mention that vision already makes enough sense. The horde and alliance have united against the Legion and other evils before. Why couldn't it happen again, when all of Azeroth is threatened?

[luccadeo]

Varian could beat Garrosh by himself. He doesn't need a raid behind him to help. That being said I really hope Varian gets the kill shot on Garrosh. Then peacefully leaves Orgrimar.

[Naxere]

Varian could beat Garrosh by himself. He doesn't need a raid behind him to help. That being said I really hope Varian gets the kill shot on Garrosh. Then peacefully leaves Orgrimar.

Not if Garrosh is backed by Sha energy, which seems pretty likely at this point.

[Frontenac]

Here is how I would like it to play out :

1) The Trolls are in open rebellion against Garrosh.
2) Huge Alliance victory against the Horde. Ex.: Domination Points gets wiped out and Garrosh's troops are forced to retreat from Pandaria. The game story leaves Pandaria for Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom.
3) After the disaster of the campaign in Pandaria, some orcish officers begin to talk more openly against Garrosh. There is dissention in Orgrimmar.
4) Most Reliquary representatives were left behind. That was the last straw. Lor'themar withdraws from the Horde.
5) The Alliance begins to push the Horde appart :

a) Trolls : The Hero (you) is sent to provide support to Vol'jin against some kor'kron troops.
b) Tauren : Tyrande learns through her informants in the Cenarion Circle (maybe Malfurion himself) that the Tauren suffered evily from a draught in Mulgore, but that Garrosh sent no help, saying that supplies must be reserved for the war effort. The Hero is sent to provide some supplies through the Circle. Tauren loyalty towards Garrosh withers.
c) Forsaken : The SI:7 sends the Hero in a disinformation mission in Tirisfal Glades : "evidences" will be planted suggesting that Garrosh is conspiring to remove Sylvanas. The evidence will point towards the Kor'kron and some high ranking Forsaken. Sylvanas gets rid of the Kor'kron and executes the Forsaken "conspirators".
d) Goblin : The Hero is sent to bribe Gallywix. Or the Alliance bribes some other Goblin to betray the Horde. That Goblin's actions cripple Orgrimmar's war machine.

7) Now that Orgrimmar stands alone and is divided upon itself, the Alliance launches an attack on Orgrimmar.

Meanwhile, on the Horde side, the different rebellious factions will attempt to unite and will also attack Orgrimmar.

Or the Alliance and the Horde Rebels could unite for that operation.

[Mister J]

---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 05:27 PM ----------

Here is the thing; *PLAYERS* can see their goblin character as being noble, heroic or paragons of virtue. The reality of the Warcraft setting is that *all* goblins are out to make a profit. Whoever gets them the gold is who they support. So, even though he is a tyrant and a general douchebag, Gallywix is the Best Goblin for the Job so far as the Goblin peoples are concerned.

I agree. Any Goblin leader is going to be conniving, manipulative and greedy.

Where the problem starts is where it starts to affect the people themselves. The Bilgewater Cartel isn't going to say "Oh, he's sooooo greedy and sneaky. I like that! Let's follow!" Instead, they'll see Gallywix as the douche who destroyed half the fleets out of Kezan, hired pirates to attack and then enslaved everyone else to sell on Kalimdor. A Trade Prince NEEDS his cartel to make money and when said TP enslaves his own cartel, suddenly they're not interested. They don't make money when they're enslaved, so why follow along?

I'd wouldn't be surprised if we find out the other 3 Trade Princes (Since Donais, the Trade Prince at Pleasure Palace, has likely sided with Gallywix) are pissed off at Jastor Gallywix because of his enslaving of his cartel. He screwed his own people AND his fellow Trade Princes out of profit. He's made a ton of enemies, and while it's entirely NORMAL for a Goblin leader to be greedy, the personal enslavement of his entire cartel would be the last straw for the Bilgewater.

Notice how NONE of the NPC's from Goblin island have anything nice to say about him.

[Deleted]

This patch will be a real make or brake for Warcrafts story, they've built up this finale before the game was even released. I'm not too confident in Blizzard's story telling but I hope to god they get it right. There's a lot to take into consideration especially on the Horde's side, Thrall, Rexxar, Vol'jin, Baine, Garrosh (duh), Sylvanas, Gallywix, Lor'thermar and a few other less high profile guys i.e Saurfang could easily have big part to play. But for obvious reason a lot have to miss out because you just can't fit in all that lore without making a small movie.

They need to carefully decide who's doing what and make it dramatic as shit. I'm looking forward to it, don't cock it up Metzen. And the fact I now regard Lor'thermar as a major player gives me slight hope, they've really built him up well and he looses the title of Bob for ever.

[Florena]

Varian could beat Garrosh by himself. He doesn't need a raid behind him to help. That being said I really hope Varian gets the kill shot on Garrosh. Then peacefully leaves Orgrimar.

My understanding is the two are actually evenly matched when Varian isn't in Super Wolf mode, which only happened in Wolfheart.

[Talen]

I'd wouldn't be surprised if we find out the other 3 Trade Princes (Since Donais, the Trade Prince at Pleasure Palace, has likely sided with Gallywix) are pissed off at Jastor Gallywix because of his enslaving of his cartel.

I think they'd be more jealous.

He screwed his own people AND his fellow Trade Princes out of profit. He's made a ton of enemies, and while it's entirely NORMAL for a Goblin leader to be greedy, the personal enslavement of his entire cartel would be the last straw for the Bilgewater.

Given Goblin activities elsewhere? Doubtful. Especially since the last chump who had designs on his position ended up giving Gallywix his entire wealth for a seat on a boat.

EJL

[Alixie]

I'm more concerned about how Varian will bring Alliance together (looking at you, Little Patience scenario).

As i speculated before in some older thread, surely Varian will drink Dwarven Council under the table, teaches Mekkatorque how to build better machines, shows Greymane how to keep his beast inside in check and gives Velen lengthy sermon about Light. And maybe teaches pandarens some new kungfu moves. "omfg u r teh high king now"

I fully expect the story writers to pull a Mighty Whitey on Varian. Only to overshadow him with their favorite green Mary Sue at the final patch.

[Rhlor]

I agree with your opinion..
The groundwork has been laid with the Pandaren. They get to choose which side they want to join. And if I look at all races, I can only see 2 races that cannot bind. Those could be the cornerstones of either Horde and Alliance.... Humans and Orcs. If you choose one of the two, there's no choice which side to join.. All others do have a choice. Because for every race is a possibility to make a case why the toon pleads allegiance to the faction of choice.

As far as pushing the Horde apart.. That's no rocket science really. Any somewhat capable diplomat can do that. The most work is done by Garrosh himself. For all it needs is to point the Horde leaders into the direction to see.... It's like putting salt into the open wound. So yeah, I expect a diplomatic development of the storyline. I am interested of what's going on on the home front. Right now, the progress shown us a huge activity of the Blood Elfs. At this stage, Lor'Themar runs the show at the Island of Thunder. I like that development. After all, them Belfs are apparently for more good than standing around in the isolation of the Ghostlands like an unwanted stepchild.

The Alliance has a huge advantage in this conflict. There's no worry about inner power struggles. Varian is respected and accepted by all races as the High Commander. Only Jaina is the spice in the soup of harmony right now.

in the second war the kingdom of Alterac was an ally of the Horde, was a human kingdom

[Deadite]

Mixing of races and factions would ruin the integrity of the entire game. Blizz would NEVER do this unless the game was breathing it's dying breath and they were milking it for it's last dollar. I still think the game has quite a few years left in it.

Not really. As long as the Orc's and Humans ain't on the same side. All the other races are pretty much irrelevant. The corner stone of Warcraft has always been about Orc vs Human. Other races are just plot devices.

[Kalcheus]

The big question in my mind is: why do the Orcs (besides the Blackrock) turn against Garrosh? It doesn't matter how much Vol'jin or Baine gets pissed at Garrosh, if anyone names themselves Warchief the Orcs have to be on board. And I don't think it's as simple as "Thrall convinces them to". Garrosh kills Saurfang? Rexxar names himself Warchief? Garrosh kills Aggra, and Thrall's child? (How dark would that be?)

If Blizzard can't devise a convincing scenario for the Orcs turning on Garrosh, the whole storyline will feel contrived and unrealistic (I mean, ignoring the fact that it's contrived fiction to begin with).