Double Death Grip

[Bakis]

I was responding to the text i quoted. Imo the example he gave was an example of a dk making mistakes.

I don't have any problem with double grip, but i do think it's stupid that grounding gets consumed by it. It's not something you can pull of with 100% success so you can imagine it sucks even more that when you pull it of, it doesn't matter that much like it used to. Call it rewarding game play.
But i adapted, ground dg > LoS > wait until buff expires. However when i play against a dk that has some knowledge of my class, it doesn't work like that.

I dont mind the grounding, they both share the same cd but one is a 4-set bonus, the strongest bonus there is.
Kinda logic it should trump the grounding totem if compared in a vacum.

---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 11:43 AM ----------

If a dk want a root, they can't run passively faster. If they want 2nd grip ability they won't get a second trinket etc etc. Sorry, DKs only get 1 talent every 15 lvls. Not 3.

Welcome to this thread where DK's apperently have Death's Advance, Chillblains and Asphyxiate...

[woopytywoop]

or should I continue laughing?

please do continue laughing, i don't care much, all i said your example was a bad one. you said how easy it was on YOUR shaman to do it (in random bg i assume). I just gave the example what i'd do on MY dk.

You said you can counter dk's and now you switch the topic about me crying that i expect them to be non counterable (which i really don't).

Any dk that has a brain won't waste dg on the grounding anyway, if they do, I'm LoS before that 2nd dg.

[Skarssen]

Because you guys keep ignoring them, if the mechanic is "fair" and "great" against certain classes doesn't matter if it completly screws over others. With Shaman elemental and restoration both suffer from double grip + immunity gets a free grip.

As elemental for example you can't stay out of range, it is not possible if you want to actually do damage. As soon as you enter range you'll be grabbed. If you now thunderstorm him away and manage to get some distance the DK will grab you again because he can. Now here a great many other classes have abilities to prevent that, in case of Shamans that is the grounding totem, just that it triggers the glyph and allow the DK for grab again, for a third time.

Right now a Shaman to properly function needs a shadow priest because of the utility that one brings to the table and if possible a mage in 3on3 simply because they provide what a Shaman lacks. A way to counter this kind of BS.

Everyone is acknowledging that DK's have an advantage vs shaman. But as I am sure you have heard, the game isn't balanced 1 vs 1. These same DKs that counter you still get wrecked by hunters, mages and warriors. Hell hunters wreck everyone 1 vs 1, but I don't know why you think your spec deserves to have no counters.

---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 08:00 AM ----------

Welcome to this thread where DK's apperently have Death's Advance, Chillblains and Asphyxiate...

And Gorefiends Grasp, and desecrated ground, and remorseless winter, and lichborne, and AMZ.

Apparently we have all been playing our DKs wrong, since there must be a way to get all of this at the same time.

[Deleted]

I was responding to the text i quoted. Imo the example he gave was an example of a dk making mistakes.

I don't have any problem with double grip, but i do think it's stupid that grounding gets consumed by it. It's not something you can pull of with 100% success so you can imagine it sucks even more that when you pull it of, it doesn't matter that much like it used to. Call it rewarding game play.
But i adapted, ground dg > LoS > wait until buff expires. However when i play against a dk that has some knowledge of my class, it doesn't work like that.

Which is the problem with this, the players responding are mostly bad DKs with no clue. In all honesty a DK that allows himself to be outplayed and kited by a ELEMENTAL SHAMAN really needs some basic knowledge about PvP, fast.

[Komamuris]

I love it how all the DKs are assuming that Blizzard does everything right and the way their class (and bonuses) is designed is the right one, just because Blizzard did it and they ALWAYS do things right? RIGHT?

The same RIGHT way they designed Warriors and Hunters in 5.0 huh? Or DKs in WotLK right?

Try to see things outside of your little small mini-world for once and maybe you will get an idea of your class really is.

[Bakis]

Which is the problem with this, the players responding are mostly bad DKs with no clue. In all honesty a DK that allows himself to be outplayed and kited by a ELEMENTAL SHAMAN really needs some basic knowledge about PvP, fast.

You seem to be the bad player in here who start to whine about death grip, in fact lets make it into Elemental Shamans have a counter class.
Totally oblivious that most of us doesnt spent our time outside SW or OG duelling.
Where are your team mates or bg team?

Unlike you who ONLY compare DG with some Elemental Shaman the rest of us actually try to put things into a broader perspective.
We are utterly failing at getting you to understand that changing DG would render DK's uptime pretty gutted against ALL classes and specs.

So please get of your childish crusade vs DG cos you as a elemental Shaman have issues with DK's. There is more to opponents than just Elemental Shamans.
"why does Grounding Totem consume on the first DG." <-- valid complaint
"DG is overpowered, lets change DG." <-- non-valid complaint

I love it how all the DKs are assuming that Blizzard does everything right and the way their class (and bonuses) is designed is the right one, just because Blizzard did it and they ALWAYS do things right? RIGHT?

The same RIGHT way they designed Warriors and Hunters in 5.0 huh? Or DKs in WotLK right?

Try to see things outside of your little small mini-world for once and maybe you will get an idea of your class really is.

You lost your credability from post #1 when you stated DK's have access to all Tier 3 talents at once, you are better off reading up on DK's before posting here again.

[Deleted]

You seem to be the bad player in here who start to whine about death grip, in fact lets make it into Elemental Shamans have a counter class.
Totally oblivious that most of us doesnt spent our time outside SW or OG duelling.
Where are your team mates or bg team?

Elemental Shamans are countered by pretty much every single melee class and a great many casters there are, your argument is bad, very bad. As for the whole "where's your team mates", where are yours? I mean they can provide the gap closers dk lacks according to you so there would be no need for triple death grip!

Unlike you who ONLY compare DG with some Elemental Shaman the rest of us actually try to put things into a broader perspective.
We are utterly failing at getting you to understand that changing DG would render DK's uptime pretty gutted against ALL classes and specs.

And this ladies and gentleman is a lie, a pretty obvious one. DK's had a good uptime before triple grip, they would have a good uptime without it. In fact they don't even need to actually reach their enemy for a great many of their abilities (diseases, pets, howling blast...) to work.

So please get of your childish crusade vs DG cos you as a elemental Shaman have issues with DK's. There is more to opponents than just Elemental Shamans.
"why does Grounding Totem consume on the first DG". <-- valid complaint
"DG is overpowered, lets change DG" ??? <-- non-valid complaint

You don't get to decide what is a valid complaint and what not. I'm sure as hell wont be told by some 1550 rated DK with no idea whatsoever what I and others get to complain about. You're a DK who gets kited by elemental shamans according to yourself so why the hell would anyone take you seriously?

You lost your credability from post #1 when you stated DK's have access to all Tier 3 talents at once, you are better off reading up on DK's before posting here again.

You never had any credibility to begin with, so it evens out. In all honesty you sound exactly like Warriors did at the start of MoP with 5 stacks of taste for blood one shotting people.

[Bakis]

You don't get to decide what is a valid complaint and what not. I'm sure as hell wont be told by some 1550 rated DK with no idea whatsoever what I and others get to complain about. You're a DK who gets kited by elemental shamans according to yourself so why the hell would anyone take you seriously?

I sure can when you specifically want to gut an ability that is crucial for DK uptime ie. viability cos your elemental shaman gets hard countered by DK's 1v1.

You don't get to decide what is a valid complaint and what not. I'm sure as hell wont be told by some 1550 rated DK with no idea whatsoever what I and others get to complain about.

I dont know your rating, you dont know my. I do know QQ without the proper arguments when I see them though.

"why does Grounding Totem consume on the first DG". <-- valid complaint
"DG is overpowered, lets change DG" ??? <-- non-valid complaint

So you understand what us evil and bad DK players are talking about since you bring up Shamans as example all the time.
Maybe you will get my point if I repeat it.

[Komamuris]

Man up Bakis and give normal answers instead of going after other people's integrity.

Oh and by the way just cuz i saw a lot of false BS being written about me assuming that DKs can get a billion talents, learn to read and then come back please.
Let's see what i wrote:

"Let's see...
- Together with paladins the only 2 classes that run passively faster than any other class in the game (hello death's advance!) - Death's advance
- Stun immunity, magic immunity fear immunity 1 extra trinket every 2 mins.... - IBF, AMS, Lichborne and Desecrated Ground
- Almost spamable immobilizing ability, not SLOW .... immobilize..." - Chillbains

Did i ever say you can have Chillbains together with Death's advance? I don't think so...
Did it get misunderstood as if i meant so? Yes
Does that nullify the rest of my argument? According to you yes

And yeah just stop making things personal and try to be an adult and talk / communicate with normal arguments, this isn't high school anymore in case you haven't noticed

[Bakis]

Man up Bakis and give normal answers instead of going after other people's integrity.

Oh and by the way just cuz i saw a lot of false BS being written about me assuming that DKs can get a billion talents, learn to read and then come back please.
Let's see what i wrote:

"Let's see...
- Together with paladins the only 2 classes that run passively faster than any other class in the game (hello death's advance!) - Death's advance
- Stun immunity, magic immunity fear immunity 1 extra trinket every 2 mins.... - IBF, AMS, Lichborne and Desecrated Ground
- Almost spamable immobilizing ability, not SLOW .... immobilize..." - Chillbains

Did i ever say you can have Chillbains together with Death's advance? I don't think so...
Did it get misunderstood as if i meant so? Yes
Does that nullify the rest of my argument? According to you yes

And yeah just stop making things personal and try to be an adult and talk / communicate with normal arguments, this isn't high school anymore in case you haven't noticed

Ok then I apologize if I missunderstood which seem to be the case.
Further down the posts I brought up why DG has such a biased design, it is supposed to work most of the times even if a bad DK fails simply cos DK's are easy to kite, lack any sprint, charge or to put it blunt. DK's lack any other form of gap closer.

DK's got access to Death's Advance sure but then the we dont get any snare ourselves. DK's have no root breakers baseline, DK's got no immunity to roots baseline other than magic ones during a short AMS.

Point is, DK uptime would be too low in order for them to function and this is even without taking teammates into account.

[Ramaloce]

Why? Then it would be just like charge. Good DK's use grip to exploit LOS and set up kills. It is part of the DK toolbox. Terrible ones do really irritating shit with it, but DG isn't in anyway overpowered, and the fact that you find it irritating isn't justification for change or nerfing.

I get that you are upset the the DK toolbox trumps whatever spec you play, but every spec has something that trumps it. Unless you play an elemental shaman, your spec beats something. Try playing as a frost DK against a frost mage, hunter, warrior, or feral.

I fine with dk's as a whole, class counters are a part of PvP. Deathgrip (and leap of faith) just falls under one of the mechanic's I don't think should of ever made it to the PvP scene, period. That really is all their is too it.

[Bakis]

I fine with dk's as a whole, class counters are a part of PvP. Deathgrip (and leap of faith) just falls under one of the mechanic's I don't think should of ever made it to the PvP scene, period. That really is all their is too it.

Kinda agree with this but I regard Smoke Bomb, Push backs, RoP, Gorefriend, Solar Beam etc to get removed first.
BLZ kinda agreed these sort of abilities might not have been the best example of features in their history.

[Illiterate]

Maybe you want to have a look at people who got Gladiator last season? Paladins (holy) were right behind warriors and about 2-4 percent above Shamans.

nobody cares about last season

[Magally]

I fine with dk's as a whole, class counters are a part of PvP. Deathgrip (and leap of faith) just falls under one of the mechanic's I don't think should of ever made it to the PvP scene, period. That really is all their is too it.

Then baseline Chillbains, unless of course you just think whatever abilities killed you in BGs today shouldn't be part of PvP.

[Bobzor]

In this thread: "Shamans shut up cuz 1 of your 3 specs is strong!"

[Magally]

In this thread: "Shamans shut up cuz 1 of your 3 specs is strong!"

More along the lines of the usual "I'm a Shaman, woe is me, I died in PvP remove everything that was used"

[Ramaloce]

Then baseline Chillbains, unless of course you just think whatever abilities killed you in BGs today shouldn't be part of PvP.

I'm fine with that. Nothing wrong with a caster melee having a ranged root. It's not one of the mechanics that needs to die.

[Deleted]

i think its ok, on my hunter DK is probably one of the easiest melee to kite around, maybe im just facing bad DKs but they have never really given me a problem.

[shise]

It's a bad change that promotes bad play, as easy as that. "What you froze your target and couldn't grip it? Don't worry now because you can grip twice!" "You are a successfull DK, but those nasty shamans keep grounding your grip? We might just have the solution for you!"

Man, you made no sense. If the target is frozen, you can grp it 5 times, it won't come...

[Deleted]

nobody cares about last season

Everybody cares about last season, since then Shamans got additional nerfs. So by logic if Paladins were above Shamans already and Shamans got nerfed it should be clear who's going to be at the top in the end.

In this thread: "Shamans shut up cuz 1 of your 3 specs is strong!"

1 of your 3 specs is viable and not crap.

More along the lines of the usual "I'm a Shaman, woe is me, I died in PvP remove everything that was used"

You sound like a good player with a lot of experience. No wait, you don't.

Man, you made no sense. If the target is frozen, you can grp it 5 times, it won't come...

Which is exactly the point, the DK can grab as often as he wants till he eventually gets the target. Being able to mess up like that and yes grabbing someone who's immune especially if he is rooted by you is a big error on your part. So why exactly is it okay and good that DK's aren't being punished for bad play?