5.3 patch notes

[Magally]

Jesus christ you're failing to see the point. It's a principle thing. If Blizzard blatantly came out and said "all PvE gear is going to have PvP power on it now" would you be saying the same thing? Would you still be going "pfft doesn't matter if PvE players have a distinct gear advantage, if you're good enough, you'll beat them".

I'm sorry to break it to you, but gear is a HUGE part in this game. In all honesty I probably could kill a very high ilvl pve geared player if I had quite low PvP gear, but it's just the principle of PvP gear being worse for PvP than PvE gear.

PvE player should not have an advantage, skill level aside.

When every argument you could make has been flipped to the point where you only resolve is to scream and cry about principles, you should really just give up.

[unkim]

I have a couple of questions:

1) As a healer how is going to affect this to me?
I am a holy priest and I was suffering too much the lack of resilience until I got the breakpoint at 65% that will be baseline. Moreover, I have 68% now and I still prefer stack more resilience. PVP power sucks comparing with the resilience as a healer.

2) As a FC, isn't clear that pve tank gear will be much more supperior with so many parry/dogde?
As a FC I don't need to kill, just need be alive as much time as possible.

And my oppinion is:
I am a hardcore PVP player. I reached 2250 last season WITH A HOLY PRIEST (2145 in 1 week this season o_O!), so I am not affraid of any new challenge, but I think it's really unfair this change. I mean, how come PVErs can be competitive at PVP while is not the same in the opposite way? (Try to do 10M garalon with pvp gear and you will see how funny will be). If they want to balance both is Ok for me, but balance both, don't put the big mouth of the funnel at PVE side.
In this way, there should be the same ilevel cap in PVE, so new players can join raids in same conditions as geared players... I've been kicked out from raids because my DPS/healing wasn't enough for that boss because of my gear.
As I understand, gear is just a filter to make a difference between dedicated and casual players. I mean, last season when everybody was 491 in RBG, where there any difference on the gear? No, just skill, but we could filtered the hardcore from casual players.

[Siddown]

I'm sorry to break it to you, but gear is a HUGE part in this game. In all honesty I probably could kill a very high ilvl pve geared player if I had quite low PvP gear, but it's just the principle of PvP gear being worse for PvP than PvE gear.

Sorry to break it to you, but in Arenas, BGs and dedicated PvP zones (where 99% of all World PvP happens), the gear will be normalized. So, yes perhaps you will happen to have a 90 v. 90 fight somewhere outside Zangermarsh while you are skilling up Mining and lose to someone in PvE gear...the fact that you are basing your entire anger off the corner case of a corner case is pretty ridiculous.

[Deleted]

You realize that they are going to normalize in zones like the Isle of Thunder, right?

Where else is real World PvP happening (I'm talking 90s v. 90s)? Sure, there is plenty of ganking out there (which isn't impacted by this one bit either way), but I'm on a full pop, PvP server and I've yet to see real World PvP outside of zones that were designated for it (Sunwell, TB, Isle of Thunder).

Tol barad, Wintergraps. You can be sure scaling wont happen anywhere outside of that because it would make item upgrades useless when questing and people would hate that.

That guy is complaining that he won't be able to easily kill full PvE geared players in non-competitive environment because he'd lack his gear advantage. Well, shit. If you need gear advantage to kill bads in wPvP you maybe need to practise a bit instead of complaining on the forums or first present proper math about dps difference.

He is complaining about PVE people in PVE gear having an advantage in PVP. And yes there is something seriously wrong with that. PvE gear should never be equal and absolutely never be superior to PvP gear when it comes to PvP. Otherwise by your logic my armor should be as good in Throne of Thunder as PvE pieces are. Is my gear getting scaled to Ilevel 522 when I enter Throne of Thunder aswell?

[ej33t]

I wonder if they'll scale my PVP gear to match the current raid ilevel when I step into PVE content.

[Deleted]

PvPers will be rocking 55%+ pvp power so i don't think pve people will have much chance no matter how heroic their gear is.

[solvexx]

PvP gear will still be better than PvE gear in all PvP situations.

[Venaliter]

PvP gear will still be better than PvE gear in all PvP situations.

Sigh. No it won't. Tanks and healers. Tanks and healers.

[Rorschachs]

Sigh. No it won't. Tanks and healers. Tanks and healers.

Yes it will. Item level will be scaled down.Everboydy.. stop being so smart and forgetting this everytime you post, thank you.

(If you are referring to world pvp, any heroic pve gear will be better than pvp gear there so you are still wrong.)

[Deleted]

RBG-Haters (like me) will love 5.3...

[Deleted]

I do wonder if the 5.3 notes (and this pvp resil gear change) will be an april fools.

[Deleted]

Well those changes are nothing but good for PVP aspect.
-Ilvl cap. Eliminates heroic raid gear in arenas & bgs. Necessary change with gigantic ilvl inflation in PvE (HC Thunderforged 2/2 Upgraded...what next? Assraped_By_Huge_Black_Cock?) Better than bumping PvP gear to ilvl 530 and providing easy shortcut for raiders.
-Resilience change - hm not sure about this one, for pvp geared people it'll be nearly the same due to resil diminishing returns. Guess it will be better to stack power & main stats now instead of ress.

If anything those actually create even playfield for people. You won't tell me that shadowmourne or loldaggers were balanced. Or, heck, vanilla WoW with people steamrolling anyone in T2, God forbid AQ40 or Naxx gear.

[anabolicz]

PvP sucks now anyways... U cannot fucking play ur own character.... u can sit and watch while silenced, feared, stunned, incapacitated, cycloned repeat repeat repeat poly fucking morph blind cyclone fear fear fear horror fear death coil fear silence silence silence interrupted silenced interrupt silence interrupt fear fear stun stun stun stun stun fear poly poly poly poly cyclone cyclone stun fear fear repentance stun silence interrupt fear silence.

Frost nova slow slow frost nova hamstring hamstring hamstring hamstring stuck nova poison slow poison slow slow slow rooted rooted earth-grab repeat endlessly

Super funny oh the joy<3

[Yaraza]

Sigh. No it won't. Tanks and healers. Tanks and healers.

Yeah. Especially healers since they won't be able to do much damage so they'll have to run away (if they are one of the healers that have good mobility to do so)... It's almost like blizzard is trying to make pvp only desirable to dps specs. There's some definite discrimination going on imo.

ANYWAY... a good change would be to lower the damn CD on the pvp trinket ffs.

[Deleted]

I don't really think it will cause a Shitstorm, Normalization in competitive play has been something a LOT of players have been asking for for years now.

It really brings it back down to just Skill, since you are in the exact same Ilvl of Gear, with only gems and Enchants being deciding factors.

Although I think the changes will bring a more fair environment, I also think pvp will lose a lot of fun factor. I think players like to feel powerful when they finally gear up can can destroy lesser geared players (that's why low level pvp is enjoyed and even preferred by many). Remove the grind and make everyone equal and you become more of a COD pvp multiplayer than an mmo.

[meathead]

I don't really think it will cause a Shitstorm, Normalization in competitive play has been something a LOT of players have been asking for for years now.

It really brings it back down to just Skill, since you are in the exact same Ilvl of Gear, with only gems and Enchants being deciding factors.

again there is no skill in wow-just op'ed face rollers.let me out it to you this way,whats the point of raiding hardcore modes or raiding in general?to get the best pve gear in the gear right?why not just make all the gear the same,so when i run a level 90 dung i have the same gear as all the hard core raiders?see how dumb that sounds.out time and effort into something= rewarded.

how would you like to spend months gearing up in top end raids to get the best gear in game.then some "new guy" joins your raid and pulls off more dps then you,because his gear is being boosted.dont you think you should have an edge over this "new" player because you been working on gearing for months?

this is just smoke and mirrors,gear is not the problem is wow.wows pvp did not go to shit because pve or pvp gear,its classes and talents.

[Talen]

again there is no skill in wow-just op'ed face rollers.let me out it to you this way,whats the point of raiding hardcore modes or raiding in general?to get the best pve gear in the gear right?why not just make all the gear the same,so when i run a level 90 dung i have the same gear as all the hard core raiders?see how dumb that sounds.out time and effort into something= rewarded.

Which is a pretty silly argument. PvE content is not PvP. The gear grind in PvE works because it allows content to be gated, and for increasing challenge.

However, the reasons why the gear grind works in PvE, and is even necessary in PvE, also means it is bad for PvP.

That target in PvP is not a NPC. It is a player avatar. And controlled bya player. Who has just as much right to have fun in this game as you. And ultimately, that means that a lot of PvP practises in WoW are simply bad - they deter people from taking part, they create a barrier for entry, they ensure that PvP can't be integrated into the game, they create an anti-social mechanic that drives players away.

Which is why Normalisation would be good. IMO, this would be a start but if Blizzard ever truly want PvP to be a core part of the game, they need to go a lot further.

how would you like to spend months gearing up in top end raids to get the best gear in game.then some "new guy" joins your raid and pulls off more dps then you,because his gear is being boosted.dont you think you should have an edge over this "new" player because you been working on gearing for months?

Which is different from PvP. How do you feel about knowing you are better than the player you are facing, but keep getting killed simply because he has better gear than you?

this is just smoke and mirrors,gear is not the problem is wow.wows pvp did not go to shit because pve or pvp gear,its classes and talents.

You seem to think it is one or the other. It's not. Classes could be better balanced. CC should have less impact. Healing should be less powerful. Burst should be less meaningful. And gear should have little or no impact on PvP play.

Of all of these, gear is the easiest imbalance to fix....and lets make no mistake, it's a big one.

EJL

[pitakos]

Which is a pretty silly argument. PvE content is not PvP. The gear grind in PvE works because it allows content to be gated, and for increasing challenge.

However, the reasons why the gear grind works in PvE, and is even necessary in PvE, also means it is bad for PvP.

That target in PvP is not a NPC. It is a player avatar. And controlled bya player. Who has just as much right to have fun in this game as you. And ultimately, that means that a lot of PvP practises in WoW are simply bad - they deter people from taking part, they create a barrier for entry, they ensure that PvP can't be integrated into the game, they create an anti-social mechanic that drives players away.

Which is why Normalisation would be good. IMO, this would be a start but if Blizzard ever truly want PvP to be a core part of the game, they need to go a lot further.



Which is different from PvP. How do you feel about knowing you are better than the player you are facing, but keep getting killed simply because he has better gear than you?



You seem to think it is one or the other. It's not. Classes could be better balanced. CC should have less impact. Healing should be less powerful. Burst should be less meaningful. And gear should have little or no impact on PvP play.

Of all of these, gear is the easiest imbalance to fix....and lets make no mistake, it's a big one.

EJL

Lol no, there should be some feeling of grinding even in PvP. PvP isn't and shouldnt be ALL about skill.You play a RPG game not a FPS(even in FPS skill isn't all that matters). RPG games rewards time investment and dedication. I don't want to have to face 99% of the times in arena rogues or DKs for example, only because they are favorite class at that particular time and ppl need no actual effort to itemize their alts.

When you loose from someone with better gear you have to deal with it, like when you loose from someone with better comp or even better skill. Thats how a game is, there isn't and there shouldn't be ONE factor decisive for everything, this will make the game boring eventually.Why not make the game a typeracer, faster typer wins. 5.2 PvP item changes where in a good direction, but 5.3 will destroy everything.

I prefer 1000 times to loose by someone with better gear but lower skills, rather than have to face the roflstomp class 10000x times more than now. Its even worse to loose from someone who is bad, with lower gear (normalized with yours), but is the fotm class and ppl are easy to roll to it cause of this change.

Hence, I feel lucky that they announced these changes now, when my annual pass expires next month.

[Reyzzz]

It's Armageddon for CTF BGs. 800k+ tanks.

No tank will have 800k hp with 496 ilvl gear.

And if they did, they would have low defensive stats.

[Deleted]

Lol no, there should be some feeling of grinding even in PvP. PvP isn't and shouldnt be ALL about skill.You play a RPG game not a FPS(even in FPS skill isn't all that matters). RPG games rewards time investment and dedication. I don't want to have to face 99% of the times in arena rogues or DKs for example, only because they are favorite class at that particular time and ppl need no actual effort to itemize their alts.

When you loose from someone with better gear you have to deal with it, like when you loose from someone with better comp or even better skill. Thats how a game is, there isn't and there shouldn't be ONE factor decisive for everything, this will make the game boring eventually.Why not make the game a typeracer, faster typer wins. 5.2 PvP item changes where in a good direction, but 5.3 will destroy everything.

I prefer 1000 times to loose by someone with better gear but lower skills, rather than have to face the roflstomp class 10000x times more than now. Its even worse to loose from someone who is bad, with lower gear (normalized with yours), but is the fotm class and ppl are easy to roll to it cause of this change.

Hence, I feel lucky that they announced these changes now, when my annual pass expires next month.

Everywhere in the world progaming and competitive leagues are based only in one thing: same stats for everyone and the most skilled player wins.
Fps have pro-mods used in tournaments that brings the game to an equal level for all players so that only the personal skill and training can make them win.
Games don't have to reward for time spent ingame, they have to reward for time spent learning to play and improving ourself. This is how the competitive play works, and is a great thing that blizzard decided to step forward this gamestyle.
Is ok to have a minimum gear grinding to reward who spend their time playing and not allowing anyone to just casual pvp, but the biggest reward comes when you actually win fights because you are good and not because you have more free time than other players.