And you thought LFR could not get worse!

[BugNuggets]

This new buff when you wipe has made LFR even worse. Spare me the horseshit about how LFR is good, it does nothing but hurt the game. If you can't even be bothered to try and play the game why should you get loot? Oh and clearly loot is all the people care about because if they were really there to see the content they might try.

Let me reword this for you.

Dear Blizzard,

Please analyze my play style and abilities and design all future content to exactly match them. Delete all content I don't enjoy and might give any other players options that I might consider harmful to my miniscule self-esteem which is based on my achievements in your digital world.

Sincerely;

But T. Hurt

[ringpriest]

The marathon example you just gave is a good example as to why we have LFR/Normal/HC (so everyone can do content, whether that be.. finish it/get a PB/race others) . I don't see anyone moving the finish line. Do you?

LFR gets LFR gear.
Normal gets Normal gear.
HC gets HC gear.

Different finish lines, different rewards (be that gear, titles and mounts)

Moving the finish line is the stacking buff in LFR. It's a marathon where everyone is guaranteed to finish.

[SamR]

Compare it to a marathon. Some people run it to win, others to beat their own best time, while some are just happy to finish. Now, imagine that the race organizers start moving the finish line back towards the start, and that there is no distinction between between those who ran the whole marathon and those who just ran some of it. It cheapens and degrades the whole experience.

Title, gear, mounts. Those are just some of the distinctions between completing a raid in LFR and in Normal/Heroic.

People who finish the marathon get an "I finished" sticker. People who participated get an "I participated" sticker. But you'd probably be one of those people whining up a storm about how people who didn't finish shouldn't get any stickers at all and the very thought of it cheapens your own shiny little sticker.

[-Superman-]

Title, gear, mounts. Those are just some of the distinctions between completing a raid in LFR and in Normal/Heroic.

People who finish the marathon get an "I finished" sticker. People who participated get an "I participated" sticker. But you'd probably be one of those people whining up a storm about how people who didn't finish shouldn't get any stickers at all and the very thought of it cheapens your own shiny little sticker.

Sadly, this is the mentality of most "raiders". Never mind the fact that they are playing a kids game. Never mind that this kids game is designed for casuals. Never mind that all of the top hardcore raiders in the world still have jobs cause kids games do not pay as full time gigs. Never mind that no one is impressed with their achievements other than them.

These are the reasons I am a casual, and I am very happy about that fact. I have much more important things to do with my life than to spend 15-50 hours a week grinding dailies, prepping food/flasks/pots, getting geared, and then raiding. When I was 20 and single, maybe. But, not everyone has this kind of free time yet still pay the same $15 a month just to play a game they enjoy. I like that the LFR is there to fit around MY schedule, and not me having to fit my schedule around my Raid Guild's schedule.

ToT gear in LFR is only iLvL480. ToT Gear outside of LFR is 502+. So, IF I get a piece of gear, it will be 22+ iLvLs BELOW regular raid gear. Not sure why raiders feel so threatened by LFR.

[ringpriest]

People who finish the marathon get an "I finished" sticker. People who participated get an "I participated" sticker. But you'd probably be one of those people whining up a storm about how people who didn't finish shouldn't get any stickers at all and the very thought of it cheapens your own shiny little sticker.

Just couldn't resist going down the old ad hominem road, eh?

[-Superman-]

Just couldn't resist going down the old ad hominem road, eh?

Just couldn't resist throwing around terms like ad hominem, eh?

[SamR]

Just couldn't resist going down the old ad hominem road, eh?

So no response when I called you out on your false argument about there being no distinction between normal raiding rewards and LFR rewards?

[FobManX]

I pretty much quit LFR. I raid 7.5 hours a week, that's good enough for me. LFR is way too much of a headache considering the reward.

[Drfireburns]

Sadly, this is the mentality of most "raiders". Never mind the fact that they are playing a kids game. Never mind that this kids game is designed for casuals. Never mind that all of the top hardcore raiders in the world still have jobs cause kids games do not pay as full time gigs. Never mind that no one is impressed with their achievements other than them.

These are the reasons I am a casual, and I am very happy about that fact. I have much more important things to do with my life than to spend 15-50 hours a week grinding dailies, prepping food/flasks/pots, getting geared, and then raiding. When I was 20 and single, maybe. But, not everyone has this kind of free time yet still pay the same $15 a month just to play a game they enjoy. I like that the LFR is there to fit around MY schedule, and not me having to fit my schedule around my Raid Guild's schedule.

ToT gear in LFR is only iLvL480. ToT Gear outside of LFR is 502+. So, IF I get a piece of gear, it will be 22+ iLvLs BELOW regular raid gear. Not sure why raiders feel so threatened by LFR.

I like your mentality sir.

[-Superman-]

I like your mentality sir.

Thanks. I often wonder why all the hate from raiders about LFR. Then it dawns on me. Only two things spawn hate: fear and uncertainty. Are they afraid LFR will replace their raids? Are they afraid we get the same rewards? Are they uncertain about the future of 10M/25M raids? It's ok for them to feel uncertain, but is no real reason to get all book-burny when something comes along that they feel threatened by. I don't want to take their raids away from them and they should extend the same courtesy and leave my raids alone. I am not threatened by them, so in turn, they should not feel threatened by me

[Sevyvia]

Well, I did think LFR could get worse. But we might reach rock bottom in a day when LFR players have to do Durumu and Dark Animus. I half dread it, half look forward to seeing just how much they will fuck up.

Sadly, this is the mentality of most "raiders". Never mind the fact that they are playing a kids game. Never mind that this kids game is designed for casuals. Never mind that all of the top hardcore raiders in the world still have jobs cause kids games do not pay as full time gigs. Never mind that no one is impressed with their achievements other than them.

These are the reasons I am a casual, and I am very happy about that fact. I have much more important things to do with my life than to spend 15-50 hours a week grinding dailies, prepping food/flasks/pots, getting geared, and then raiding. When I was 20 and single, maybe. But, not everyone has this kind of free time yet still pay the same $15 a month just to play a game they enjoy. I like that the LFR is there to fit around MY schedule, and not me having to fit my schedule around my Raid Guild's schedule.

ToT gear in LFR is only iLvL480. ToT Gear outside of LFR is 502+. So, IF I get a piece of gear, it will be 22+ iLvLs BELOW regular raid gear. Not sure why raiders feel so threatened by LFR.

Somehow you manage to both not get the underlying issues that LFR is a symptom of, and be a complete tool at the same time. Impressive! You are the epitome of what is wrong with this game, now. The "slouch in front of the TV watching whatever is on" WoW player. Go back to your incredible marriage/girlfriend that you managed to squeeze into a post completely irrelevantly (Assuming you're arguing with forever alone 13 year olds, I guess?), don't spend time on a "kid's game." And certainly, don't for a moment try to do anything hard, or something that requires coordinating and working together with other players in the game. That would be dangerously close to investing yourself a bit in the game, and since you've already established that it's a "kids game" that is obviously beneath you.

God, your type makes me puke.

[HardCoder]

Well, I did think LFR could get worse. But we might reach rock bottom in a day when LFR players have to do Durumu and Dark Animus. I half dread it, half look forward to seeing just how much they will fuck up.

Because people who are blocked on those bosses in normal and heroic are different, how?

[SherbertLand]

What if Blizzard forced players to go trough a tutorial before they could join in lfg activities??

You're missing the point. People don't refuse to try in lfr because they're all bad, it's just that nobody really cares about lfr.

[ringpriest]

So no response when I called you out on your false argument about there being no distinction between normal raiding rewards and LFR rewards?

I'm not talking about differences between raiding difficulty levels.

The point which I (and others, including the OP) are making, and which you are avoiding, is that adding a stacking buff to LFR to virtually guarantee kills removes what little challenge (and point) LFR had. I think that a game which cannot be lost isn't deserving of the name. If Blizz wants to make a Massively Multiplayer virtual rollercoaster ride, that's fine, but stop pretending it's a game or that it has anything in common with World of Warcraft besides the name.

[Otimus]

Well, I did think LFR could get worse. But we might reach rock bottom in a day when LFR players have to do Durumu and Dark Animus. I half dread it, half look forward to seeing just how much they will fuck up.



Somehow you manage to both not get the underlying issues that LFR is a symptom of, and be a complete tool at the same time. Impressive! You are the epitome of what is wrong with this game, now. The "slouch in front of the TV watching whatever is on" WoW player. Go back to your incredible marriage/girlfriend that you managed to squeeze into a post completely irrelevantly (Assuming you're arguing with forever alone 13 year olds, I guess?), don't spend time on a "kid's game." And certainly, don't for a moment try to do anything hard, or something that requires coordinating and working together with other players in the game. That would be dangerously close to investing yourself a bit in the game, and since you've already established that it's a "kids game" that is obviously beneath you.

God, your type makes me puke.

Aren't you being just as bad, but on the opposite spectrum? I mean, I don't care for when people bring up stuff about families, jobs, and whatnot either, but I sure as hell do not approve of people looking down on people based on the content they do, and people wanting to take that content FROM those people, at that. I mean, look at all the passive insults in this thread toward that stuff, for pete's sake. Even you're guilty for that. Don't you see why people get all defensive? There's a passive need from a lot of people around here to treat the content certain people want to do, and by proxy, those people, like total shit for it. It's wrong, it's bad, and it needs to stop.

---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 07:01 PM ----------

I'm not talking about differences between raiding difficulty levels.

The point which I (and others, including the OP) are making, and which you are avoiding, is that adding a stacking buff to LFR to virtually guarantee kills removes what little challenge (and point) LFR had. I think that a game which cannot be lost isn't deserving of the name. If Blizz wants to make a Massively Multiplayer virtual rollercoaster ride, that's fine, but stop pretending it's a game or that it has anything in common with World of Warcraft besides the name.

There's plenty of games you can't lose :x That's a bit absurd, and short sighted, and kind of limits exactly what videogames can be.

Also, I'm pretty sure the stacking buff's main reason for existing is to make sure people don't leave in mass when there's wipes, not so much as to make sure "everybody wins". I've even noticed in the ToT LFR's, that it's actually helping people learn from their mistakes. Which is a good thing.

[Annarion]

Is it any worse than having epics in heroic 5-mans?

[HardCoder]

You're missing the point. People don't refuse to try in lfr because they're all bad, it's just that nobody really cares about lfr.

Most of the people who "refuse to try" in LFR are not doing it because they're super casual or because they're "downies" or "window-lickers" or whatever. They're doing it because they're like the people bitching in this thread -- "too good" for LFR but they want the "free" gear anyway, so they bitch in /raid and AFK and are the actual reason LFR sucks.

If you're too good for LFR, how about, stay out of it and shut up?

[Otimus]

Most of the people who "refuse to try" in LFR are not doing it because they're super casual or because they're "downies" or "window-lickers" or whatever. They're doing it because they're like the people bitching in this thread -- "too good" for LFR but they want the "free" gear anyway, so they bitch in /raid and AFK and are the actual reason LFR sucks.

If you're too good for LFR, how about, stay out of it and shut up?

Seriously. Next time you see people auto-attacking or barely doing anything, go Armory them. I've done it. At least about 80% of the time, it's normal or better raiders.

[Osmeric]

There's plenty of games you can't lose :x

Heh. I remember the first time I played a FF game, FF X. "I better accumulate all those power circles on that big chart", I thought; after all, if you didn't need them, why are they there?

So of course when I get to the final boss fight, it's trivial in the extreme. Oops.

[-Superman-]

Somehow you manage to both not get the underlying issues that LFR is a symptom of, and be a complete tool at the same time. Impressive! You are the epitome of what is wrong with this game, now. The "slouch in front of the TV watching whatever is on" WoW player. Go back to your incredible marriage/girlfriend that you managed to squeeze into a post completely irrelevantly (Assuming you're arguing with forever alone 13 year olds, I guess?), don't spend time on a "kid's game." And certainly, don't for a moment try to do anything hard, or something that requires coordinating and working together with other players in the game. That would be dangerously close to investing yourself a bit in the game, and since you've already established that it's a "kids game" that is obviously beneath you.

God, your type makes me puke.

It's ok. I understand your dislike for anyone not committed to "real raiding" 30+ hours a week and willing to tough it out with 24 other dedicated individuals in a race for the ultimate prize. If "real raiding" is your thing, that's fine. But, just because I want something different and don't have the free time to play their game by YOUR rules shouldn't stop me from enjoying the game at my own pace.

Your "type" is the reason I don't raid with "raiders". The game is far from fun when someone is yelling at you for having gear at the low end just to get in and not having already gone to YouTube and memorized the fights. The age old debate: Elitists hate the casuals and the casuals hate the elitists. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you don't know me and just assume that because I am a casual that I am AFKAltTabbedYouTubingSleepingOnMyKeyboard. Well, you know what they say about assumptions: