And you thought LFR could not get worse!

[Pancha]

The only reason why I do LFR and raiding nowadays is in order to for me to see the content while also gearing up so that I can do some more soloing of old raids. Soloing has been the only thing I've considered 'fun' the last couple of years. When I stopped hardcore raiding, I were unable to find the joy I once had. It pleases me to take down a boss that I once considered impossible. It is fun. LFR? It's not really fun, it is more of 'to be done' kind of thing.

There are far more stuff that has 'killed' WoW for me, LFR is part of it, but surely not the only reason. The community is dead. That is the reason as to why I'm unable to find the joy I once had. Do I want to do a dungeon? Sign up. Raid? Sign up. Pvp? Sign up. There is no incentive for me to ever talk to anyone or organize something. That incentive was a major part of the game back in Vanilla/TBC when you had to actively look for members for heroics/raids/pvp (not that much in pvp, but still more than today).

LFR is a grind. I would rather have the increasing buff than a group that falls apart after one wipe.

[Deleted]

When an alt is Ilvl495 1-2 weeks after dinging 90 I think it's fair to say it is a problem. There should be a learning and progression curve, even if it is only a small one.

Anecdotes are absolutely useless. Yours especially.

My alt hunter is 90 for months now and barely scratches 478......now what?

Blizzard and their statistics decide what is right and wrong. Not you.

[kleinlax21]

I think the OP is misattributing the increased number of wipes in LFR.

It's not really because of the Determination buff, it's simply because the raid tier is really new and most players haven't really figured out the new mechanics and increased difficulty. Pretty much all the 5.0 raids had brief periods where LFR groups frequently wiped because at any time half the raid had no idea what they were doing.

But as the weeks went on, people got better gear and learned the fights and eventually wipes in LFR became relatively rare and almost never happened twice on the same boss. The same thing will happen to the Throne of Thunder LFR, the determination buff just encourages players to stick with it after a wipe or two.

This, pretty much. The only time I've wiped more than two successive times on one boss was last week in 1/4 ToT and the first several weeks LFR was open in ToES and HoF. Determination is a good concept and I like how, mostly, it encourages a group to stick together through wipes. It's a great team-binding tool (I would say teamwork but I think the nature of being with other random people doesn't inspire teamwork from some individuals).

[Raiju]

This, pretty much. The only time I've wiped more than two successive times on one boss was last week in 1/4 ToT and the first several weeks LFR was open in ToES and HoF. Determination is a good concept and I like how, mostly, it encourages a group to stick together through wipes. It's a great team-binding tool (I would say teamwork but I think the nature of being with other random people doesn't inspire teamwork from some individuals).

It also supports the attitude of not trying to improve your play or your character, the opposite of the premise behind most games.

[kleinlax21]

Anecdotes are absolutely useless. Yours especially.

My alt hunter is 90 for months now and barely scratches 478......now what?

Blizzard and their statistics decide what is right and wrong. Not you.

My current main is 485 PvE iLvL, had him at 90 since before 5.1 came out too. I run all LFR's when I have the time, I usually complete all of them every week. The only way you have 495+ iLvL in two weeks is if you ding and get funneled MSV/HoF/ToES loot in preparation for getting your new 90 a core spot in a guild working on ToT.

[Sunius]

I really hope that one day they get a moment of clarity and fix matchmaking to match good geared players with good geared players and bad geared players with bad geared players.

[Romeothecat]

"I don't do lfr! ( or atleast I hope you don't because then you'd be a hypocrite) but it's ruining my game! Why should casuals get loot that is worse than mine for content that is easier!?"

Honestly this crap has been old since dragonsoul. Just stop already.

[kleinlax21]

It also supports the attitude of not trying to improve your play or your character, the opposite of the premise behind most games.

People forget that if you're wiping in LFR, you're not wiping to low DPS, low heals, or high tank damage (most of the time). You're wiping to mechanics. A 5% damage buff isn't going to overcome the complacency of your players when it comes to mechanics; it's going to encourage them to stick around, hear how to position/conduct themselves in the fight from players who know how, and maybe learn the fight for themselves instead of them just saying "fuck it, this is stupid, I'm out."

[Deleted]

Uh ?
Are you really playing for loot ?
Sad.

[Raiju]

People forget that if you're wiping in LFR, you're not wiping to low DPS, low heals, or high tank damage (most of the time). You're wiping to mechanics. A 5% damage buff isn't going to overcome the complacency of your players when it comes to mechanics; it's going to encourage them to stick around, hear how to position/conduct themselves in the fight from players who know how, and maybe learn the fight for themselves instead of them just saying "fuck it, this is stupid, I'm out."

No, you are wiping due to low numbers, because higher numbers are used to ignore mechanics. That's been the point of LFR since it's conception. Where mechanics were impossible to ignore blizzard would remove them (rolling on spine as example). Numbers will overcome almost all mechanics.

See council of elders. You're wiping due to not being able to follow tactics on sand guy? Ok just stack that determination buff until you can kill him before he gets empowered! The heal adds get ignored, everyone stands in sand traps, and noone moves out of the lightning roll. This is LFR.

[slime]

I really hope that one day they get a moment of clarity and fix matchmaking to match good geared players with good geared players and bad geared players with bad geared players.

haha, I think that is the exact opposite of their intent, but good for some lols.

[Eorayn]

I still don't see why people hate it so much...Don't like it? Don't do it. Nobody is forcing you. And why do you care if casual players get "s0m3 l3wtz" anyway? If it's THAT much of a problem, LFR gear is worse than normal raiding gear...I still don't see your problem, or how this "ruins the game"

The problem is that Blizzard are gradually making the game easier. They literally make the players lazier. We don't even have to fucking assemble a team, or travel to destinations anymore, everything is served on a silver platter. We even get unbelievable XP bonuses, and you can pretty much sleepwalk through the whole leveling experience. Because of all this, people don't want to put time into it, they just want to go from A to B without doing anything. Raiding is a whole other experience now that we are randomly put into some group, and the goal is just to finish as fast as possible to get gear - gear to boost your performance in raids. The whole thing is pointless, people don't get anything out of it. You are supposed to enjoy the leveling experience, the journey, the world, and the raiding. But Blizzard made it impossible to do so.

[kleinlax21]

No, you are wiping due to low numbers, because higher numbers are used to ignore mechanics. That's been the point of LFR since it's conception. Where mechanics were impossible to ignore blizzard would remove them (rolling on spine as example). Numbers will overcome almost all mechanics.

See council of elders. You're wiping due to not being able to follow tactics on sand guy? Ok just stack that determination buff until you can kill him before he gets empowered! The heal adds get ignored, everyone stands in sand traps, and noone moves out of the lightning roll. This is LFR.

Much easier to learn the fight after the first wipe than wipe enough times to get (I'm assuming 3-5) stacks so you can just zerg the boss.

[Kuja]

Are you saying you would join a LFR group for some other reason than loot? LFR groups are horrible, there's no fun to be had and there's never anyone chatty in the group. People just pewpew, loot and leave, and occasionally blame tanks for getting them killed.

Fun is to be had in a premade group, LFR is for loots alone!

[Deleted]

Btw LFR loots are nothing compared to hardmode gear.

[Raiju]

Much easier to learn the fight after the first wipe than wipe enough times to get (I'm assuming 3-5) stacks so you can just zerg the boss.

Both weeks my fight on council has been wipe - get buff 1-2 times - kill at 5-10%. No faster than trying to "teach" them the fight. In fact faster because there wasn't 15 minutes spent before each pull telling people what to do and when.

[Boil]

When an alt is Ilvl495 1-2 weeks after dinging 90 I think it's fair to say it is a problem. There should be a learning and progression curve, even if it is only a small one.

I have been playing Mists as regular as possible since the release on my main (and, really, only toon; I do not count my Panda Monk languishing in Org, trapped at lvl 14) and am only at i491… Unless you are having crafted gear thrown at you by guildies or are being handheld thru early MoP raids, I do not see how you can get to i495 1 or 2 weeks after hitting 90…

I thought LFR was meant to be an excuse to "see the content" i.e. free gear if you couldn't do normal modes for whatever reason (none really exist if you play dps due to these near hour long queues, you could make a pug for 3 bosses faster). I'm not entirely against the determination buff or for it, but I wouldn't bat an eyelid if they removed it completely. It's been clear wow has been going this direction for years and I only play casually now because of it (when I play at all)

When was the last time you REALLY tried to throw together a 10-man PuG…? In the middle of the workday or at 3am in the morning…? Got that going in under an hour…? I seriously doubt it…

It boils (no pun intended) down to this, haters are gonna hate. LFR is not hurting anything, you are not forced to do it, and the gear is not as good as Regular Mode or VP gear anyway… I think the real thing is that those who are SO against it are just looking for a reason to complain…

To the casuals that love the idea of getting a chance at seeing raid content, no matter how watered down & simplified, LFR stands for Looking For Raid…

To the haters & complainers that feel this 'Easy Mode' that Blizzard offers the 'other 95%' of the player base, LFR stands for Looking For (a) Reason…

In closing, I would just like to say, "Nanny nanny boo boo, I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you". ;^p

[Raiju]

When was the last time you REALLY tried to throw together a 10-man PuG…? In the middle of the workday or at 3am in the morning…? Got that going in under an hour…? I seriously doubt it…

It boils (no pun intended) down to this, haters are gonna hate. LFR is not hurting anything, you are not forced to do it, and the gear is not as good as Regular Mode or VP gear anyway… I think the real thing is that those who are SO against it are just looking for a reason to complain…

To the casuals that love the idea of getting a chance at seeing raid content, no matter how watered down & simplified, LFR stands for Looking For Raid…

To the haters & complainers that feel this 'Easy Mode' that Blizzard offers the 'other 95%' of the player base, LFR stands for Looking For (a) Reason…

In closing, I would just like to say, "Nanny nanny boo boo, I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you". ;^p

last week. Took 20 minutes for the group. People always call my server "dead" too. Stop being entitled and go try it for once.

[Deleted]

What if Blizzard forced players to go trough a tutorial before they could join in lfg activities??

What if people just stfu about wiping in a random group, especially a random group with 24 other players. Seriously, if the random strangers wiping causes you to come to forums complaining there is the old fashioned solution of joining a guild and doing normals. But that's not going to happen anytime soon so let's not waste our breath on "what ifs".

[Deleted]

When was the last time you REALLY tried to throw together a 10-man PuG…? In the middle of the workday or at 3am in the morning…? Got that going in under an hour…? I seriously doubt it…

I see raid groups forming at odd hours quite frequently on my realm, but then again its one of the highest populated ones in europe, i understand if its different on medium or low though.