And you thought LFR could not get worse!

[Mad_Murdock]

last week. Took 20 minutes for the group. People always call my server "dead" too. Stop being entitled and go try it for once.

What server is this ? If you can put together a true pug in 20 mins, I'd say you server is hardly dead. If by putting a 20min pug together means 5-6 guildies, 2-4 people from other guilds you know and 1 lone guildless guy, then that's hardly the same thing.

Grab 9 different people you never raided with before in 20 mins and then show us the logs of your success

[Boil]

last week. Took 20 minutes for the group. People always call my server "dead" too. Stop being entitled and go try it for once.

I see raid groups forming at odd hours quite frequently on my realm, but then again its one of the highest populated ones in europe, i understand if its different on medium or low though.

What server is this ? If you can put together a true pug in 20 mins, I'd say you server is hardly dead. If by putting a 20min pug together means 5-6 guildies, 2-4 people from other guilds you know and 1 lone guildless guy, then that's hardly the same thing.

Grab 9 different people you never raided with before in 20 mins and then show us the logs of your success

(EDIT - I added in the last two quotes because they are a clear example of what I am trying to get at about 'throwing together a PuG'… Try to REALLY get a PuG together, but of COMPLETE STRANGERS, in under an hour. At times, you may be able to do so, but your raid experience is probably gonna be real similar to LFR, with a few wipes right off the bat. In an average PuG, you KNOW one or two of the others, and they KNOW someone else, it is not really a random collection of strangers pushing the magical 'I Wanna Raid Now' button…)

I HAVE put together many a PuG, and know how difficult it can be at times. I put together PuGs ALL thru the bad times known as the Dragon Soul(suck) at the end of Cata, for the express purpose of getting my Clusters for my Legendary Daggers. Half a year of pain & agony there… Now, if you have a bunch of players on you Friends/RealID lists, of course it might be easy to throw one together, but if you are just hitting Trade with the standard LFM tag, it CAN take awhile… A lot of waiting to find that second tank or healer going on, dps is a dime a dozen (but the good ones are worth their weight in gold).

And from my DS experiences, I know that PuGs can be just as bad, if not worse than LFR groups at times… Wiping numerous times because folks cannot learn the mechanics of Ping Pong is sad, but it happened… Just replace the baddies, you might say…? Well, while waiting, the healer or the tank decide they got better things to do, so there you are, back in Trade looking to fill a slot, as the night gets longer…

Get a good PuG together though, and things can be sweet! As I progressed thru DS, the PuG became more of a regular set of folks, and one week we even went 6/8 in about 45 minutes, all one shots… But by then it was not really a Trade-sourced PuG, but a group of like-minded individuals that, for one reason or another, were not raiding in a guild environment at the time… But it STARTED as a PuG…

And again, try getting that PuG together at 'off' hours, when folks are not on that much… LFR draws from more than just the server/realm you are on, so while your server may be a few insomniacs running dailies or farming mats, that server on the other side of the world has some folks ready to push that LFR button…

Yeah, Blizzard may be doing a lot of things to make the game 'easier' for the casual player, but I really do not think it makes things any different for the regular raider. The Regular & Hard Mode raids are still there, your gear is still better than LFR gear; heck, even the color scheme lets folks know what level of gear you are sporting…!

And think of this, if Blizzard did not do the things they do to keep casuals interested, subscription numbers would drop, and Azeroth might disappear from your screen forever…

[Nemah]

Grab 9 different people you never raided with before in 20 mins and then show us the logs of your success

That actually sounds like a fun experiment. Granted, it used to happen once upon a time in the days before LFG/LFR, but the time limit sounds like it could turn into something amusing. I'll try it on my realm, but it's rather dead. A high pop realm on the other hand....

[Osmeric]

The problem is that Blizzard are gradually making the game easier.

You're right, that's a problem. They should RAPIDLY make the game easier.

[Deleted]

(EDIT - I added in the last two quotes because they are a clear example of what I am trying to get at about 'throwing together a PuG'… Try to REALLY get a PuG together, but of COMPLETE STRANGERS, in under an hour. At times, you may be able to do so, but your raid experience is probably gonna be real similar to LFR, with a few wipes right off the bat. In an average PuG, you KNOW one or two of the others, and they KNOW someone else, it is not really a random collection of strangers pushing the magical 'I Wanna Raid Now' button…)

That is highly possible on a realm that is so full it have queues at prime play time, like mine does. Doing a pug with complete strangers does not mean invite everyone who asks, thats one of the benefits of having a high population ( there is a fair amount of people on even at odd hours ), being able to filter people as you will still get your group going even if saying no to that guy doing 45k dps in 480 ilvl gear.

[IRunSoFarAway]

How does the buff make it worse? I haven't seen any LFR intentionally wipe just to stack the buff, yet.

[Caerule]

I love LFR. I have stuff to do. I lead a roleplay guild on a relatively quiet server. I explore lots of the game and have a ton of fun, with a ton of friends, but I'm unable to do what I do and be part of a proper raiding team. The opportunity simply isn't there. Thanks to LFR, I can still do raids, in my own time. I can enjoy new content coming out when it's current. For me and many like my LFR is a great addition to the game. It adds to my enjoyment, and will keep me playing longer.

So for me at least, LFR is a successful addition to the game.

[MoanaLisa]

This new buff when you wipe has made LFR even worse. Spare me the horseshit about how LFR is good, it does nothing but hurt the game. If you can't even be bothered to try and play the game why should you get loot? Oh and clearly loot is all the people care about because if they were really there to see the content they might try.

There are people who seem to be proud of the fact that they can't be bothered to even try in LFR. Many of them consider themselves to be quite good players. Too good to do anything in LFR but not too good to collect the loot while they AFK and watch YouTube or whatever. You see them posting every week. I can put up with bad players who try; players who really can play well and don't bother are loathsome.

[Deleted]

Anecdotes are absolutely useless. Yours especially.

My alt hunter is 90 for months now and barely scratches 478......now what?

Blizzard and their statistics decide what is right and wrong. Not you.

And prob did not do heroics, and lfr...and doing 1 heroic a week doesn't count. My mage was Ilvl475 3 days after dinging 90 a couple of months ago...if you can't manage that in let's say 3 weeks (I'm being very generous in time) than you just suck at the game. And no, I did not spend any gold on BoE epics. (I did for the DMF trinkets as they were BiS - but they were low Ilvl either way)

Another fun example, my guild decided to roll healer and got 490 Ilvl in 4 days (he was full green in his healer set...if you could even call it a set).

I'm perfectly fine with people who spend less time still getting loot and see content, how fast they are gearing up and seeing content is an issue in my eyes.

There are people who seem to be proud of the fact that they can't be bothered to even try in LFR. Many of them consider themselves to be quite good players. Too good to do anything in LFR but not too good to collect the loot while they AFK and watch YouTube or whatever. You see them posting every week. I can put up with bad players who try; players who really can play well and don't bother are loathsome.

I don't want to do LFR, but in order to get the best output out of my char I feel forced to do them...so yes, I AFK almost every raid on my main. On my alts I tend to contribute more as I usually need more gear and want to work for that.

I find it funny you think many bad players try to play well...there are some, but those are way too rare.

Edit: I also don't think I'm too good to do LFR...but I want some sort of challenge, and a raid where you can ignore almost every mechanic isn't really a challenge. I afk because lfr is boring...nothing more or less.

[XDurionX]

Only people complaining about LFR aren´t "real raiders", it´s those underachievers that barely beat normal content, an need to distinguish from those who are hardly worse. REAL raiders never cared fpr lfr, and won´t be anytime.

[Raiju]

What server is this ? If you can put together a true pug in 20 mins, I'd say you server is hardly dead. If by putting a 20min pug together means 5-6 guildies, 2-4 people from other guilds you know and 1 lone guildless guy, then that's hardly the same thing.

Grab 9 different people you never raided with before in 20 mins and then show us the logs of your success

So I should just turn people away because I know hundreds of people on the server...? That's hardly a fair test now is it. Just because I socialize ingame and it makes it significantly easier to pug (you guys should try it sometime before acting in disbelief) doesn't mean it is ignorable.

I don't believe my server is dead either, but it certainly isn't full and I play on horde when we have an alliance heavy faction balance.

[MoanaLisa]

I find it funny you think many bad players try to play well...there are some, but those are way too rare.

I didn't say that. What I actually said is that I would prefer to group with a bad player who actually tries than some slug who queues up but can't be bothered. It's true that not all bad players give it an effort. I don't have any use for them either.

If you're comfortable asking Blizzard to simply hand you gear for doing nothing, that's your affair.

[Otimus]

I have been playing Mists as regular as possible since the release on my main (and, really, only toon; I do not count my Panda Monk languishing in Org, trapped at lvl 14) and am only at i491… Unless you are having crafted gear thrown at you by guildies or are being handheld thru early MoP raids, I do not see how you can get to i495 1 or 2 weeks after hitting 90…



When was the last time you REALLY tried to throw together a 10-man PuG…? In the middle of the workday or at 3am in the morning…? Got that going in under an hour…? I seriously doubt it…

It boils (no pun intended) down to this, haters are gonna hate. LFR is not hurting anything, you are not forced to do it, and the gear is not as good as Regular Mode or VP gear anyway… I think the real thing is that those who are SO against it are just looking for a reason to complain…

To the casuals that love the idea of getting a chance at seeing raid content, no matter how watered down & simplified, LFR stands for Looking For Raid…

To the haters & complainers that feel this 'Easy Mode' that Blizzard offers the 'other 95%' of the player base, LFR stands for Looking For (a) Reason…

In closing, I would just like to say, "Nanny nanny boo boo, I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you". ;^p

More to the point, you sure as hell aren't going to get a pug going in these times without having proof of already of done the thing you want to pug. You can't just pug things. It's not that damned simple. I think raiders don't get how things are for non-raid guilded players at all.

[Ghul]

i like it, hate me if you want!

nanananana!

[Raiju]

More to the point, you sure as hell aren't going to get a pug going in these times without having proof of already of done the thing you want to pug. You can't just pug things. It's not that damned simple. I think raiders don't get how things are for non-raid guilded players at all.

Yeah, we've never been there. WE WERE BORN RAIDERS, MOLDED BY IT.

[Clevername]

When an alt is Ilvl495 1-2 weeks after dinging 90 I think it's fair to say it is a problem. There should be a learning and progression curve, even if it is only a small one.

Please do show me an alt that is 495 ilvl after 2 weeks of nothing but LFR, would love to see that, realistically you're talking about 4 weeks minimum of just pure LFR and that is with good luck.

[Deleted]

I really don't care about it, all my alts were more than 500 ilvl before the 5.2 release.

The only utility now (since there's no rep nor legendary item drop twice a week on same boss in different modes), for HL players, is to farm some new 'tricky/bugged' trinket if he didn't loot it in normal/hm, or for complete a 2p or 4p bonus' T<insert number of actuel tiers set here >.
If you cry about LFR, so..., you've it in mind, ...so you're not a very HL player, cause you play the same game than 80% of population, called : casual. So accept the casuals rules, or leave this level.

Oh, wait, conclusion : yes, loots are the only thing players want in wow. Except the 20% who focus progress. =)

[djrajir]

And prob did not do heroics, and lfr...and doing 1 heroic a week doesn't count. My mage was Ilvl475 3 days after dinging 90 a couple of months ago...if you can't manage that in let's say 3 weeks (I'm being very generous in time) than you just suck at the game. And no, I did not spend any gold on BoE epics. (I did for the DMF trinkets as they were BiS - but they were low Ilvl either way)

Another fun example, my guild decided to roll healer and got 490 Ilvl in 4 days (he was full green in his healer set...if you could even call it a set).

I'm perfectly fine with people who spend less time still getting loot and see content, how fast they are gearing up and seeing content is an issue in my eyes.

This is not likely, unless you are crazy lucky. The only way to accomplish this is to be very lucky, or use bonus rolls a lot. If you use bonus rolls then your point is invalid as the casual and normal players that you are hating on are not going to be using them that often.

Since mop released I have leveled two characters to 90, my main doesn't not count because he does not do lfr. On my alt I did LFR every week and the sha, I didn't get a single drop until two days before 5.1 hit, after that up until 5.2 I got two more drops. That means for all that time I was stuck with MSV LFR. After 5.2 hit I have only gotten one drop from LFR and one from sha. This was all without using bonus rolls. My alts current ilvl is 479.

I don't want to do LFR, but in order to get the best output out of my char I feel forced to do them...so yes, I AFK almost every raid on my main. On my alts I tend to contribute more as I usually need more gear and want to work for that.

I find it funny you think many bad players try to play well...there are some, but those are way too rare.

Edit: I also don't think I'm too good to do LFR...but I want some sort of challenge, and a raid where you can ignore almost every mechanic isn't really a challenge. I afk because lfr is boring...nothing more or less.

You are a part of the problem. LFR would not be as bad if people like you never joined it. Your are not forced to do LFR not even a little. My main that i mentioned earlier has never done LFR (though I plan to for the gem from the black prince), I dinged 90 did some heroics and my guild started to do normal raids. We only had enough gear to get in, mostly heroic dungeon gear. It took us a while be we started on heroic versions later.

LFR is a tool for casual player and is not needed, though it is true if you wish to min/max you may want to go. If you really want a challenge like you say you do forget min/max and just go raid normal and heroic raids offer plenty of that. With the way raiding is now its far less of a number game and much more of a mechanic game (though there are still a few gear checks here and there).

[Deathgoose]

When an alt is Ilvl495 1-2 weeks after dinging 90 I think it's fair to say it is a problem. There should be a learning and progression curve, even if it is only a small one.

Except the alt that goes to ilvl 495 after only 1-2 weeks as a 90 is either carried by his guild through everything and funneled gear, buys every piece of crafted BoE stuff available, or is entirely fictitious.

Especially given that LFR gives mostly fail bags.

[Aphrel]

just wait a little bit, soon blizz will use this buff to justify removing teh kick tool from lfr. since the buff from wiping will eventually make up for the terribads in ur group, hence you no longer has a reason (or soon to be even teh ability) to kick them

ah i cant wait for heroic scenarios, even if they turn out to suck balls i will still rpefer only carrying 2 ppl instead of 23 ppl.